Is sex before marriage truly immoral in EVERY SINGLE circumstance?

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PetiteFoi said:
I can only imagine the harm in telling our young people that chastity isn’t “realistic” or expected.
Lots of people, myself included and my husband were able to keep it in our pants until marriage.
To say it’s not realistic is insulting, just the fact alone that you insinuate young people have no self control, and so shouldn’t even try is so harmful.

Just because lots of people commit the same sin doesn’t make it less of one, or more acceptable.
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Ditto. My husband and I were able to keep ourselves chaste, as were most of my friends who have gotten married or will be getting married (and we were all 25+).

My husband’s aunt was watching “Mamma Mia!” with her 9yo daughter and my SIL (I just happened to be in the room) and instead of saying, “This is why you should wait until you’re married,” she said, “This is why you have sex with only one guy per period.” :confused: Guess what? Kids will usually rise to the standards you set for them - but saying, “Well, it’s unrealistic,” sets the bar awfully low.
 
This is an amazing thread with solid advice. I could not begin to come close to the spiritual and emotional advice given here.

So I will just address a secular perspective. You have a couple choices from a secular perspective regarding both your interaction with your boyfriend, and with how you present yourselves to the world. The first choice has been thoroughly discussed here. However, the second choice can effect other opportunities such as the chance to meet other people, or even professional opportunities.

When I grew up, guys did not expect to marry a virgin. However, a lot of guys will not call a girl who appears “head over heels” involved with a guy. Fast forward now to a year down the road. At this time you and your boyfriend may need to deal with one question:

“Is he emotionally and financially ready to support a family.” For me, it took a long time to get to that point. Do you really want the most incredible guy on earth not to call you the month before one of you takes a hard look at that question and decides the answer is “no”?

You will have to decide for yourself whether to listen to the (name removed by moderator)ut here that you requested.

For myself, I do not discuss, or even hint about, what I did with other people when I was young. However, if it helps, I will relate a situation that occurred two weeks ago where I sought and received solid instruction – that I chose to ignore.

I enjoy the martial arts and I have been getting back into it with home training and lessons in Thai boxing. However, two weeks ago I attended a class for an art that I just fell in love with (Brazilian Jiu Jitsu). Unfortunately, because I refused to listen, I got hurt and I may have lost the opportunity to practice.

The instructor advised me to just “watch” the last part of the class where everyone “rolls” or spars. However, the other student there on his first day was allowed to “roll” because he had some previous experience. So I just had to jump in and I asked a white belt about my size if I could try.

Well I did fine against the white belt because of my experience as a high school wrestler. So I wanted more. Then I asked the other beginner if he would roll with me. I really wanted to roll with him because he was an “operator” (special forces), and I read a lot of spy novels that talk about these guys. However, the guy also had 30 lbs. on me and 2 inches in height.

Although at the time it was hilarious because I lasted a minute or two with the guy before he reversed me as we “hit the wall”. The instructor monitored us and coached me since I was the underdog.

Unfortunately, the next day I realized that I was hurt, and I have been working in pain the last two weeks.

I had my “fling” with the “operator”. However, I could have had so much more including a chance to start a new sport, and meet new friends. I may have thrown all that away because I “just didn’t want to hear it” when the advice “to watch” was crystal clear.

The advice here Marie, is also “crystal clear”. The question you will have to answer is whether you are going to listen, or end up like me and get hurt.

Now, for me, I know our God is the God of second chances, and after some prayer and reflection, I believe there is something He wants me to do. I hope If I apply myself to this, then maybe I will get another shot at Jiu Jitsu. If so, I will listen. Thus, I will not be engaging much on forums etc. while I attend to this act of service that has nothing to do with anything discussed here.

Sorry for the long post and I don’t mean to hijack this thread.

Good luck with your choices.
 
The sexual union creates the imago dei, and that reality is so profound that it must be protected by a vow. Marriage is the exchange of vows, of persons. Thus, no sex before vows…before marriage.
 
Marie_Graham said:
Here is what is said :

Now concerning the matters about which you wrote: “It is good for a man not to have sexual relations with a woman.” But because of the temptation to sexual immorality, each man should have his own wife and each woman her own husband.

1 Corinthians 7:1-40

I agree that there must be a pre-relationship courtship that may last several month without sex but once you truly feel in love and want to be with that person forever, I truly have a hard time understanding how it is immoral to have sex before marriage.

To be perfectly honest I think this whole rule of “no sex before marraige” is not an absolute. I think that when you have the intention to love and to stay together and to have children with the person you are with, to me I don’t think there is sexual immorality.

But since I don’t want to lean on my own understanding I would very much appreciate some of your insights and opinions.

Thank you very much in advance and have a wonderful day 🙂
Marie
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For the sacramental marriage it makes a huge load of difference whether the sacrament has already taken place or not. Plans are not sacrament. Even an honest intent is not a sacrament, either. Before the sacrament means without the sacrament.

As for non-sacramental but valid marriage (e.g. non-Christians), it matters whether the commitment is actually there or is not there. When it’s simply contemplated or expected, it’s not yet there. The door out is not shut and the parties are still free to go.

The above may be easier to understand IMHO if you connect it with the permanence and non-dissolubility of marriage, i.e. no divorce. Free concubinage may seem not critically different from a marriage which either party can end at will and contract a new one. That would be just a bit more hassle than breaking up with a boyfriend or girlfriend. But when it comes to permanent, indissoluble marriage, the difference between it being there or it not (yet - but still not) being there is huge. It’s two different qualities.

What’s important is the quality, not a time-frame. It’s not a couple of days before or after a date, it’s a matter of whether it’s there (the sacrament or at least the valid marriage) or not.

If you look at judges, someone may very well have the same qualifications as normally practicing judges but when he’s not formally appointed as a judge and properly docketed with a case etc., his word is simply not the “law of the land” (knowledge and character don’t make a judge, the appointment does, even if he’s actually not a great judge in terms of knowledge or character). Which is different from doctors or lawyers who don’t really become smarter upon completion of some admission exams, although even they may receive special graces connected with their station that might perhaps not be there for someone who does not actually have the station (well, okay, some actions in court will be invalid if your lawyer wasn’t properly licensed but a surgery won’t be unmade when you discover the guy wasn’t licensed to practice) – similarly to last year students in Arts, for example (history, marketing but even theology) who may be just as good and may even hired by employers just like accomplished grads. A different example: someone who will be ordained tomorrow is still not a priest today. He knows all the rubrics and other things he needs to do (e.g. theology, preaching, pastoral skills, canon law) and he’s presumably competent enough to carry them out similarly to someone who’s already there, but he’s simply not a priest yet because he hasn’t been ordained yet (knowledge and ability isn’t the end of it, what’s important is the sacramental ordination). By contrast, someone who never went to the seminary and could only with greatest difficulty go through the rubrics (which would not be optimal but persecution could force it to happen) would still be validly celebrating the mass and sacraments.
 
Jesus said, “If you love Me, You will keep my commandments.”

It’s pretty clear that fornication, adultery, masturbation and sodomy are sins of the flesh that are condemned in the Bible. There is no “gray area” when it comes to it.

Chastity is hard. If it was easy, the world would be clamoring to do it.

We are called to be HOLY. Yes, it’s a tall order, but Jesus said “My grace is sufficient.”

Don’t deceive yourself into thinking that pre-marital sex is “natural” and “everyone else is doing it.” That excuse won’t hold water at the judgement.

If you are struggling with chastity, there are many amazing resources out there, including books by the Everts.

Pax.
 
I suppose it would depend on your morals. For Catholics it is immoral, but not for the majority of people.

I wonder if Catholics believe that sex before marriage was immoral before Catholicism was invented or marriage was invented for that matter
 
Marriage started with Adam and Eve.

Sex outside the vow of marriage has always been immoral.
 
aprilfloyd said:
I suppose it would depend on your morals. For Catholics it is immoral, but not for the majority of people.

I wonder if Catholics believe that sex before marriage was immoral before Catholicism was invented or marriage was invented for that matter
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There is no moral relativism when it comes to this. It was always wrong. Catholics didn’t invent it, God almighty did.
 
Is sex before marriage truly immoral in EVERY SINGLE circumstance?

Objectively – most certainly yes.
 
GraceUnderFire said:
There is no moral relativism when it comes to this. It was always wrong. Catholics didn’t invent it, God almighty did.
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I appreciate that you believe that, but it does come down to one’s moral view, rather than the catholic moral view, if you step back and look at the wider view
 
Please do not argue with aprilfloyd. Christians have no common ground with him.
 
aprilfloyd said:
That is a fair point, if you believe that story.
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Hey April, I get it, Christ was “the God of your Fathers” . That’s from Judges in the Old Testament and the point was that the experience of the previous generation didn’t cut it with the new generation…just old stories. So, I dare you to ask Jesus (by name)to reveal himself to you…not the religion but Himself to you…you may find that things become different in an amazing way…
 
Marriage came before Christianity; it came before Judaism. It began with the dawn of civilization, with Adam and Eve. Man and woman are made for each other, and the marital act implies openness to new life. And that new life is going to be dependent on mom and dad for 18 years, (or in this century, perhaps 30 years or more!), and that implies that their union must be permanent. Pre-marital sex has bad consequences for everyone, not just Christians. And because it has bad consequences for individuals, it has bad consequences for society.

Sex before marriage is an injustice to children. In engaging in premarital sex, you are telling any child who might be conceived, “It doesn’t matter much to me if you are deprived of a father, or a mother, or a stable family, because I’m having a good time right now and you’re not that important to me.”
 
aprilfloyd said:
No.
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Sorry, but you're wrong. Fornication is ALWAYS wrong. This is stated in the Bible and has been taught by the Church for over 2, 000 years and the Word of the Lord stands forever. Simple as that. I would encourage you to trust in the Lord Jesus, His Word and the Church He founded.:thumbsup:
 
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