Is smacking a child always morally wrong?

[catharina]

N2 - I 've cared for children who have died from one smack too many or one smack not “carefully” placed. I’ve worked with others who lived lives of total disability from the same kind of smacks. You can mock and call that my proclaiming genocide but I didn’t; I only described my experiences. I’ll never laugh about this.

 

[teachccd]

I guess some day we can ask him in person. If I’m wrong, I’ll buy you a beer. Don’t believe for a minute that in heaven there is no beer.

Wow. Now I can see who I’ve been talking to…

 

[catharina]

First off, my point is that I never spanked my kids and they turned out great.

Secondly, your little comment about me being a saint and you a hopeless sinner can be construed as a feeling of self defense. If your parenting skills are up to par then perhaps you are the saint and my “not following the Bible” makes me the sinner.

There is nothing that you can say that will convince me that hitting kids is acceptable behavior. I’m sorry that we don’t see eye to eye on this one but then I’m sure that we may not se eye to eye on other topics as well. That’s what makes the world go round. Unforunately there are those kids whose parents spank them in moments of anger and your point of view is the shadow where they hide. It’s just discipline.

YES - unto infinity!

No human being has the right to hit another human being period. Give me all of your fancy rhetoric and justifications but we just don’t hit people. That’s the bottom line. Take away their favorite games or shows but don’t hit them. No little person needs some big person smacking or slapping them. If I cannot hit anyone else in this world without suffering consequences, what gives me the right to hit my children?? And don’t answer God. Jesus never hit anyone. He said,“Let the little children come to me”.

Again - YES unto infinity!

And even when they slapped Him, spit on Him, scouraged Him and nailed Him to a Cross, Jesus never hit anyone. Now, why should we??

May God bless all the little children of the world and allow us to continue seeing them as our most precious gifts. If this computer acts up, I don’t smack it. I find the source of the problem and work on it. How much more precious are our children??

God Bless…teachccd

 

[Newbie2]

Secondly, your little comment about me being a saint and you a hopeless sinner can be construed as a feeling of self defense. If your parenting skills are up to par then perhaps you are the saint and my “not following the Bible” makes me the sinner.

I was just yanking your chain.

Unforunately there are those kids whose parents spank them in moments of anger and your point of view is the shadow where they hide. It’s just discipline.

Of course, agreed. I’ve never advocated spanking in anger, although I freely admit I’ve done so.

No little person needs some big person smacking or slapping them.

Spanking yes (we disagree), slapping or smacking anywhere but on the bum, agreed.

Jesus never hit anyone. He said,“Let the little children come to me”. And even when they slapped Him, spit on Him, scouraged Him and nailed Him to a Cross, Jesus never hit anyone. Now, why should we??

God never disciplined the Israelites severely?

Jesus never had kids.

If this computer acts up, I don’t smack it. I find the source of the problem and work on it.

And when it breaks or gets outdated, you through it away, right? I don’t see the analogy. Plus, I’ve had success with a little whack now and then to the printer. But not like this guy:

youtube.com/watch?v=WcoQqeYR_cQ

 

[teachccd]

I’m done here. Your video was funny. I will never agree with you. God Bless…teachccd

 

[Newbie2]

Posing irreverent questions about Mary or Joseph is not my idea of a meaningful exchange. It seems clear that we have different ideas of heaven too: 1) you believe things will be for sale and 2) you believe that I’d accept a bought beer from you. Don’t you think that a sense of reverence counts for an awful lot? I do.

Again, you’re putting words in my mouth. Please stop.

For the record, no, I do not believe things are “for sale” in heaven, and the comment was a conciliatory statement. Sorry that you didn’t glean that. I’ll try again:

Yes, reverence counts for a lot. But again, please note, I didn’t bring up Mary’s child rearing techniques. I don’t think it’s irreverant to speculate on how the Holy Family handled discipline with our very human (and divine Lord). Are they not examples for us to follow? Alas, they have not left us teachings, so we have to figure this out by ourselves, with the church’s guidance.

I’d ask, if you wish to question my reverence, please do so in a PM. Thank you.

 

[teachccd]

Catharina, Keep up the good work. You have seen first hand what “spanking” can do. Even N2 admitted to hitting in anger. It’s sad. May God Bless you and keep you always…teachccd

 

[catharina]

QUOTE from teachccd

“Unfortunately there are those kids whose parents spank them in moments of anger and your point of view is the shadow where they hide. It’s just discipline.”

QUOTE from Newbie2

**“Of course, agreed. I’ve never advocated spanking in anger, although I freely admit I’ve done so.” **

**
That’s not even vaguely surprising since one thing easily leads to another.**

 

[Newbie2]

QUOTE from teachccd

“Unfortunately there are those kids whose parents spank them in moments of anger and your point of view is the shadow where they hide. It’s just discipline.”

QUOTE from Newbie2

**“Of course, agreed. I’ve never advocated spanking in anger, although I freely admit I’ve done so.” **

**
That’s not even vaguely surprising since one thing easily leads to another.**

Thank you, St. Catharina.

Kick me when I’ve publically admitted a fault. Perhaps you missed the “embarassed” smilie. If you wish to slam me anymore, please do so in the PMs. I’m outta this discussion.

 

[catharina]

Again, you’re putting words in my mouth. Please stop.

For the record, no, I do not believe things are “for sale” in heaven, and the comment was a conciliatory statement. Sorry that you didn’t glean that. I’ll try again:

Yes, reverence counts for a lot. But again, please note, I didn’t bring up Mary’s child rearing techniques. I don’t think it’s irreverant to speculate on how the Holy Family handled discipline with our very human (and divine Lord). Are they not examples for us to follow? Alas, they have not left us teachings, so we have to figure this out by ourselves, with the church’s guidance.

No use in my pursuing your above statement.
I’d ask, if you wish to question my reverence, please do so in a PM. Thank you.

Agreed. I’ll ask that if you determine to misquote me (did I really refer to hitting gone VERY wrong as genocide?) you do so in a PM also.

No need to muddy these waters. They’re plenty muddy already.

The day will never come when I find this subject one of amusement so no, I couldn’t and don’t recognize anything of your previous statement as an attempt at conciliation. .

 

[catharina]

Catharina, Keep up the good work. You have seen first hand what “spanking” can do. Even N2 admitted to hitting in anger. It’s sad. May God Bless you and keep you always…teachccd

Thank you for your prayers.

As members of the staff who cared for the babies and older little ones, my friends and I had the opportunity to meet some of the parents who had truly “meant no harm.” These parents were heartbroken and appalled in a way that had changed them forever. Children are tiny and they’re fragile. Great big mature adult-minds MUST be able to find better ways to teach their children about life.

 

[whatevergirl]

Again, I agree.

Would you smack your boss for being irritating?
Would you smack another driver who annoyed you with his antics?
Would you smack a priest for calling sinfulness to your attention?
Would you smack your spouse for disagreeing with you?
Do you expect to smacked in the course of your day by any giant in the area?

Children are helpless, vulnerable, without power and at our mercy.
We are gifted with their presence. Who would hit them?

Couldn’t agree more.

 

[whatevergirl]

I have read through this entire thread–very interesting perspectives. I grew up in a strict Italian home, my dad, when I was very little, spanked–HARD. Today, not sure what it would have been called, but back then, he thought he was disciplining me…and he never raised his hands out of anger, it always seemed to be in discipline. My husband was raised this way too. Now, I grew up ‘fine,’ without reprecussions, BUT…I don’t think that it’s necessary to correct a child. I think that it creates fear, that’s about it.

Let’s say you have a three year old, who has not yet reached an ‘age of reason,’ and he/she keeps doing something that you ask he/she not to do. So, you then spank the child, and the child stops doing what he/she did earlier. Ok, so did the child really learn something, or is he/she just fearful of doing the same thing again, because another spank might be forthcoming? That’s my issue with spanking…it teaches fear, really. I feared my dad spanking me as a kid–that was the only reason I didn’t do the behavior a second time.

Same thing with speeding. How many times do we see people slowing down, when a cop is in sight? Then, as soon as they pass the cop, they speed like mad.

Bet they were spanked as little kids. (Get my point?)

I have no judgement for people who choose to spank, but I just think that if we were to crawl into a child’s head…we would see fear there, not learning anything. (unless a parent perhaps, explains why he/she spanked) I will say this though, I didn’t fear my dad. I feared doing the thing that caused me to get a spanking. Was that a good thing? Maybe. I didn’t do the thing that was annoying my parents…but, again, I just don’t see the need to spank, personally.

 

[catharina]

I’ll add this and it’s only my perspective. When I visited with those newly baptized twins recently, I remained completely aware that they, eight months old and baptized, were completely without sin and would remain so for many years. It was a new and overwhelming realization. Never could I imagine that anyone who gave a lot thought to the graces of Baptism would conclude that “yes, I can smack these children if I think it’s necessary.”

NECESSARY? To whom?

 

[catharina]

Also, food for thought: NOBODY, doctor, nurse, teacher, therapist, janitor, you-name-it, was allowed to touch any of the children in the nursing unit if the adult admitted to believing in “teaching” through a swat now and then.

Totally NO - because such adults were considered “high risk.”

 

[Delphinus85]

I just had an arguement with my mum. She believes that smacking is wrong under all circumstances because its violence towards a child, and that such behaviour can teach a child that in order to get what they want, you must hit somebody; She then tryed to make a case that war and evil in the world is a result of smacking children (She is an Athiest). She also made a case that taking away privilages and rewarding somebody based on right and wrong actions is the better of the two. She thinks that smacking is coesive, and the other one isn’t.

I respect these arguements and my heart tells me that she is has a good point; but i think that its way to easy to judge smacking on its violent apperence and a few bad apples.

My rebuttle was as thus: First of all, giving and taking away treats is just as coesive or a type of “emotionall blackmail” as smacking; and does not garrantee that a child will grow up as good.
I also said that praising a child for doing good is absolutly better then resorting to smacking, if such actions actually work; but i also made the case that such actions should not be divorced from teaching a child the “value” of good, and why a child should do good for the sake of good rather then for a “treat”. Just Giving treats and praise for good behavior can also become a negative thing, and can also be a quick and easy way of keeping a child quite, just as well as the threat of a smack. Both types of displine can easly back fire and teach a child that in order to get what they want, one must emoitionally blackmail, oppress and deprive people; even hit them.

What i then suggested was, that one may have no choice but to smack a child given a set of impossible circumstances. I think that its definetly true that i would much rather teach a child to be good then smack a child, since its not a pleasent experience for either of us; but i think its too harsh to judge a parent,(that has no time to play the super nani and use all those jedi mind tricks), especailly in this society, that has no option but to smack a child.
Certain situations may demand a quick response for the childs sake as well as the parent; (I’m talking about a smack on the hand or the leg) alsong as the parent also loves and cares for that child, i see nothing inherently wrong with smacking, even though it may appear so to the untrained eye. I also think that its an arrogant assumption to blame the evils of the world on some poor parent who has no other option but to smack their child. Theres no garrantee in either case, even if smacking is the least desirable of the two( Nobody in their right mind “wants” to smack their child!).

Smacking can become an abuse, but i don’t think it is an abuse in and of itself, as long as it kept for a situation where one has no choice but to smack.

I’m quite prepared to admit that i am wrong and ignorant if somebody can make a good case agains’t me; for i fear that my perception of smacking is coloured by the culture that i grew up in.

Peace.

I say it depends on how hard you smack them. My mom and dad would smack me so good my eyes would water and I’d get a bruise. I would argue that’s not okay. Most people think that’s not okay.

The thing is a light “slap” on the cheek is another matter. You don’t have to leave lasting pain to get acoss how serious you are, I think. I don’t have kids, but i see it like animals (I train dogs as a hobby) you don’t have to hit them to hurt, just show them how stern you are and to show your power on them. It’s more powerful than hurting them. If you hurt them or leave damage, they are more likely to fear you. And anyone knows obedience out of fear leads to rebellion more often than obedience out of love and (healthy) respect.

 

[dessert]

I’m done here. Your video was funny. I will never agree with you. God Bless…teachccd

I don’t think that video was funny at all I think it was frightening.
D.

 

[catharina]

For anyone who has developed a habit of hitting his/her children, I’ll suggest doing this. Make up your mind to go one week without hitting. Flood your life with little prayers, asking for God’s help in finding a better way to teach values and obedience - and don’t hit (smack, slap, pinch, slam, push) no matter what.

Don’t scream either - screaming at children results in screaming and/or frightened children.
If you feel like screaming, take a personal time-out for yourself.

At the end of the week it’s almost a certain guarantee that YOU will feel better about yourself and your children. Grace will flood your soul in that week’s time along with ideas for alternatives to physical punishment. Turn off the TV, impose an early bedtime, remove a favorite toy (not their blankies, of course!), use very brief time-outs, skip the trip to the park, choose some response and then do whatever you must, just be consistent and DON’T HIT.

God bless you.

 

[dessert]

Good for you for admitting that you’ve been able to learn new things as time passes. Lots of parents get stuck in defensiveness.

Defensiveness is a good word because we sometimes carry the memories with us from our own childhood.

I learned only one way and I thought it was the only way and feeling overwhellmed about motherhood and all the responsibilities.

I child acting out is only thinking of himself or herself and it is hard to communicate but I think tone of voice works better but not screeming or calling names.

Sometimes a time out on a couch works better but not in a corner and it gives the parent time to think about the serioousness of the crime.

These are some things I have tried to do with the grandkids.

Maybe we should come up with a list of solutions instead of reacting with anger
What would have been better for the man to do on the video?
D.

 

[guanophore]

smacking is wrong under all circumstances because its violence towards a child, and that such behaviour can teach a child that in order to get what they want, you must hit somebody;
Peace.

Children learn what they live, and it is true that most children who develop problems with violence grew up with it.

Ask these questions…

Did Mary and Joseph “smack” Jesus?

Since Jesus said whatever we do to the least of His,we do unto Him, would you smack Jesus?

Since Jesus said that the angels always behold the face of His father in heaven, how would you feel about angel talking to God about your “smacking” behavior?