Is smacking a child always morally wrong?

[hilde_the_dog]

I was spanked as a child and think it has its place. But recently, I went to a funderal and the sons eulogy for his mother was centered on her use of the leather strap which he placed in her coffin. That is not how I wish to be remebered.

 

[Jay2]

A leather strap constitutes a weapon = abuse/beating.

I got my fair share of swats to the behind, but always via mama’s hand. (And after giving my own kids a swat or two I now understand “this’ll hurt me more than it hurts you!”)

Ask these questions…

Did Mary and Joseph “smack” Jesus?..

I’d say yes.
As pure as Mary was, if she saw the toddler Jesus playing with a lit candle, or getting too close to the hearth what would she do?.. ask for Devine intervention, or give the little guy a smack on the hand and a stern NO!..?? She’s a mother & parent… what do you think would have happened?

It’s very easy to quote Jesus… in the adult context… because our entire base of reference is of what happened when he was one! We know very little about him from infancy to young adulthood!

Don’t presume… we don’t know.

 

[Melissa2007]

I did not read all of the other posts just the first 2 pages, but here is my response.

I do not think that it is always wrong. Do I spank no. I happened to watch and learn from Super Nanny. IT’s funny that you mentioned her. She really knows her stuff. Now I started out with her philosophies when my youngest was 18months so I never had to undo any behavior. I am also home with my girls. IT seems that it would be easier to be consistent with time-out if you are the sole provider of care. Being consistent and disciplining your child takes time no matter what method you choose. One important thing to remember is that the word disipline means to teach. If you place a child in time-out or spank a child without an explaination of how to do better next time then you are not disiplining your child you are simply punishing them. Discipline is always better than punishing. The OP also mentioned positive reinforcement. I am a strong believer in this. IF my girls are good at the store, for example, I thank them and tell them that I appreciate their good behavior. I actually enjoy taking my girls grocery shopping. They keep me company. I would rather go with them than without them. If they happen to misbehave we find a nice time-out spot and they sit there for the normal amount of time. I think it is harder to be consitent with disipline in public places if your primary form is spanking, because it is scary to spank your kids in public these days. Whatever method is chosen be consistent and remember to teach!!

 

[jgorny]

Discipline is about getting someone to do something. Regardless of the method that you use to manipulate your child, they are always going to represent and mirror your personal integrity.

I’ve seen parents who never hit their kids and yet could set lucifer on fire with their tongue and could shoot down planes with their ‘look.’

While proverbs does tell a parent not to be afraid to use physical force to educate their child it is not something to be taken on by someone who does not have self-discipline. In fact, having kids really shouldn’t happen to folks without self-discipline. Ironic that it is the lack of discipline that often results in kids - anyway.

I know that there are two ways to grow wise - the school of good talks and the school of hard knocks. I will always give my kids the option of taking either road, but in the middle - there has always been the spanking.

The spanking exists for one purpose really - it is something that stands in place of a greater fall. In other words, if I catch my child doing something that would result in much greater pain had I not been there, a spanking acts as a gracious consequence for foolishness. And never on the first offense. Every situation gets one - but if I ask them what they did and I ask them if they should do it and why they should do it and they know - then it is an interesting question. My parents spanked in that circumstance, and I believe I would too, although I think after age 5 or 6 there are better ways to handle that.

This specifically includes playing with knives, sticking things near electric sockets, touching the stove, etc.

I would not feel comfortable spanking a child for something that would not physically hurt them otherwise. The punishment should ideally be a lesser form of what they should deserve for their actions.

A spank replaces a hospital visit.
Being grounded replaces going to jail.
Everyone does chores before they play.

 

[Ecat]

Hello,

No. And in fact it can be important to do so.

In one of my psychology classes at Franciscan University of Steubenville some time ago my professor pointed to three things needed.

1. Discipline (of course reasonable disciple) which could include corporal punishment if reasonable.
2. Consistency (in discipline especially)
3. Love.

Studies found if even the love was missing the children were less likely to be social problems later on…but if the consistency or discipline was missing the child was more likely to be a problem later on to society…(if my memory serves me right from 10 years ago)

Kevin

 

[AlannaFG]

I don’t think that smaking a child is wrong in itself.
I think that everything has its place. What works for some does not work for others.

Be consistant. Communicate with your child/children so that they know exactly why they are being punished and please don’t lash out when you are boiling.

Take a time out **if at all possible **(yes, sometimes parents need that too) and deal with it when you have cool off; particularly with older children. I know some situations require immediate attention. But remember you want the message to be discipline not anger.

Also, I think it is important to pay attention to whether or not the smaking is making a difference with your child. Because I do believe that it might shake up some children, but not all. You may have two children and one response positively to that form of purnishment; while the other makes you wonder whether they can feel or not!
All always ask God for guidance
Happy Parenting
AlannaFG

 

[whatevergirl]

I did not read all of the other posts just the first 2 pages, but here is my response.

I do not think that it is always wrong. Do I spank no. I happened to watch and learn from Super Nanny. IT’s funny that you mentioned her. She really knows her stuff. Now I started out with her philosophies when my youngest was 18months so I never had to undo any behavior. I am also home with my girls. IT seems that it would be easier to be consistent with time-out if you are the sole provider of care. Being consistent and disciplining your child takes time no matter what method you choose. One important thing to remember is that the word disipline means to teach. If you place a child in time-out or spank a child without an explaination of how to do better next time then you are not disiplining your child you are simply punishing them. Discipline is always better than punishing. The OP also mentioned positive reinforcement. I am a strong believer in this. IF my girls are good at the store, for example, I thank them and tell them that I appreciate their good behavior. I actually enjoy taking my girls grocery shopping. They keep me company. I would rather go with them than without them. If they happen to misbehave we find a nice time-out spot and they sit there for the normal amount of time. I think it is harder to be consitent with disipline in public places if your primary form is spanking, because it is scary to spank your kids in public these days. Whatever method is chosen be consistent and remember to teach!!

I really enjoyed your post Melissa…excellent advice! I like the Supernanny show too…she is amazing. My kids are older now, but her tactics for disciplining younger children is really remarkable.

 

[seremina]

I’d like to throw in my 5 cents here.

Children need discipline. I’m not talking about smacking. Just discipline in general. Without it, they won’t know there’s a consequence for what they did. They’ll think they’re free to do what they shouldn’t. Over and over.

Discipline can come in many forms. I think if you explain clearly why they are getting disciplined and then do it, they should learn. Give rewards to teach a good behaviour. Eventually, they’ll find it feels so good they won’t need the reward for it. Still, make them feel loved, important, and wanted. Make them feel the loving impact they’ve made on your home and life.

An undisciplined child is a troubled child that usually ends up having to deal with a harsher discipline. Could be military school, could be the arms of the law, or even God.

I think people have forgotten that there are consequences for every sin that is done. If you raise a child without discipline, those consequences will have to come later and that child will be unequipped to handle it. Children should love AND fear their parents. Why? Because we love AND fear God. He will punish us. Consequences will exist for adults too, not just children.

Equally, parents should make sure they are in full control. Acting purely on emotion will be dangerous. Not only might you accidentally hurt your child instead of explaining and disciplining, you would be committing a sin. As well as slowly corrupting yourself with the anger. It’ll lead you to eventually hit your child over every little thing. So it helps to remember…explaining and disciplining. And without yelling.

Also, I have watched Nanny 911 and another show I didn’t want to watch again. This other show featured young children that will hit AND kick AND bite their parents to get what they want. One of them even backwards head-butted the mother. The mother was instructed to hold her child in a time-out, restraining him. The sheer violence of this child is just terrifying. She might’ve had an easier time with this child if she had a husband. She was a single mother with no real time for the children and only ever uses time-outs, taking away privileges, etc. These are just children she made with whoever she was bedding at the time. Suffice it to say, the restraining time-outs weren’t working either and she was getting horrible bites on her arms. The “child expert” seemed clueless on what to do and the mother was asking if there was some kind of drug the child could take. Just one of the many weirdness you find in modern advice about childrearing. No basics…just building on misinformation or knowledge they never had…like explaining before disciplining. Never presented. Nanny 911…constantly surprises me. I have to wonder if those methods would work with every family, especially with violent children.

I’d like to illustrate an interesting example that gives a huge contrast of what worked/didn’t work for one family. The boy got spankings when he did wrong, his sisters did not. The boy grew up well and is getting married before having children. The sisters did not grow up well and they only got married [not to the father of the children] after having children. One of them hates the son she got out of her own foolishness and she hardly feeds him, never baths him, never plays with him, and is always hurting him. She gave him no explanation nor discipline. Just abuse. This son’s grandmother will be adopting him yet the mother is saying he’s her son not anybody else’s and won’t give him up…though she refuses to take care of him. The poor boy thinks everything he does is wrong and just looks lost and stares at walls. His mother wouldn’t talk to him, so he didn’t learn how to talk until later in his life. He also had to learn to wear boxers and use a toilet later in his life; his mother kept him in diapers way past how long he should’ve been.

Doesn’t this contrast make good points? The daughters weren’t disciplined and went out of control. It continues in their adulthood. Their children live a dysfunctional life. The men in their life are not even the father that helped make them. The son was disciplined and never got out of control. He’s a kind and good adult. He’s told me how he’d like to raise children and its so healthy.

We need to teach and take back the weirdness. Parents and children need to be parents and children again. Children should not be in control of the house nor of you. Parents need to stop being best friends to their children and need to stop being abusers with no sense of reasoning for their children to follow. There must be a middle and proper ground!

I notice something is missing on this thread. How often do your children go to Confession and present their list of sins to the Priest? How do their Penances go? I’d love to see more discussion on how the Church is helping us parent children.

I just hope I was able to explain it clearly. Words are not my strength.

 

[whatevergirl]

seremina says—>***I notice something is missing on this thread. How often do your children go to Confession and present their list of sins to the Priest? How do their Penances go? I’d love to see more discussion on how the Church is helping us parent children.

I just hope I was able to explain it clearly. Words are not my strength.***

That is an excellent point about taking kids to Confession. I take my daughter with me…as she ‘enjoys’ Confession. Not sure what she chats about in there with the priest, but she says that she ‘feels cleaner,’ when she comes with me. (She is 11) My son being 15 does not like going…but, will go, during Advent and Lent…and it’s interesting, because some of the talking back really stopped with him–as I have a feeling he ‘confessed’ that when he went with us a few months ago. So…that is an excellent point…the Church is there to help us be better parents. If we would just open ourselves up to that more–it would be great for all communities and families.

 

[Roman20]

I just had an arguement with my mum. She believes that smacking is wrong under all circumstances because its violence towards a child, and that such behaviour can teach a child that in order to get what they want, you must hit somebody; She then tryed to make a case that war and evil in the world is a result of smacking children (She is an Athiest). She also made a case that taking away privilages and rewarding somebody based on right and wrong actions is the better of the two. She thinks that smacking is coesive, and the other one isn’t.

I respect these arguements and my heart tells me that she is has a good point; but i think that its way to easy to judge smacking on its violent apperence and a few bad apples.

My rebuttle was as thus: First of all, giving and taking away treats is just as coesive or a type of “emotionall blackmail” as smacking; and does not garrantee that a child will grow up as good.
I also said that praising a child for doing good is absolutly better then resorting to smacking, if such actions actually work; but i also made the case that such actions should not be divorced from teaching a child the “value” of good, and why a child should do good for the sake of good rather then for a “treat”. Just Giving treats and praise for good behavior can also become a negative thing, and can also be a quick and easy way of keeping a child quite, just as well as the threat of a smack. Both types of displine can easly back fire and teach a child that in order to get what they want, one must emoitionally blackmail, oppress and deprive people; even hit them.

What i then suggested was, that one may have no choice but to smack a child given a set of impossible circumstances. I think that its definetly true that i would much rather teach a child to be good then smack a child, since its not a pleasent experience for either of us; but i think its too harsh to judge a parent,(that has no time to play the super nani and use all those jedi mind tricks), especailly in this society, that has no option but to smack a child.
Certain situations may demand a quick response for the childs sake as well as the parent; (I’m talking about a smack on the hand or the leg) alsong as the parent also loves and cares for that child, i see nothing inherently wrong with smacking, even though it may appear so to the untrained eye. I also think that its an arrogant assumption to blame the evils of the world on some poor parent who has no other option but to smack their child. Theres no garrantee in either case, even if smacking is the least desirable of the two( Nobody in their right mind “wants” to smack their child!).

Smacking can become an abuse, but i don’t think it is an abuse in and of itself, as long as it kept for a situation where one has no choice but to smack.

I’m quite prepared to admit that i am wrong and ignorant if somebody can make a good case agains’t me; for i fear that my perception of smacking is coloured by the culture that i grew up in.

Peace.

its not a case of what is wrong and what is right its a case of

Their are actions and consequences

You determine if their actions require consequences and you decide what the consequences will be… it does not have to be hitting… its neither ok and neither not ok

its a choice you make on what consequences to give to your child

 

[rpp]

1. Jesus’ Own Example was Discipline, NOT Punishment.
2. Scripture Does Not Support Spanking
3. The Universal Church Does Not Model Corporal Punishment
4. Spanking Flies in the Face of Good Science
5. Spanking Is Violence
6. Spanking as Sin or Occasion of Sin
7. God’s Justice is Subject to His Love
8. Spanking does not Respect the Gift of Will
9. Spanking Conflicts with the Church’s Teaching on the “Age of Reason”
10. Catholic Luminaries in Child-Rearing Oppose Spanking

From the conclusion:

The first two points are demonstrably incrrect. Jesus made a whip and used it to chase the money changers from the Temple. Also as was quoted by a previous poster, there are many verses that teach us to discipline children with “a rod” if needed. This is not be confused with beating.

I have no clue what he means by point 3. The Church **does **punish people. That is what excommunication, among other things, is.

Point 4 is open to debate.

Point 5 is not true in the case of honest discipline.

Point 6 is utterly groundless.

Point 7 denies the fact that God does indeed punish people. That is what Hell is.

Point 8 is specious.

Point 9 is baseless and diversion.

Point 10 is cherry-picking and does not accurately portray classical writings of the great saints, theologians and doctors.

With all that said, I would add that there are children who seem to never need that little smack on their backside. While there are others for whom that is the only thing keeping them, ultimately, out of prison.

 

[JRKH]

Gee, I hope not.

I know I got my bottom warmed more than once.

Of course I never deserved it.

All of us kids got spanked and we all turned out OK.

James

 

[bellamarie]

I don’t believe smacking a child is morally wrong as long as it is not done with anger or intentional harm. As a mother I can say I had three children and did not find it necessary to hand out smacks. I did smack my teen daughter out of reflex when she used a vulgar word in speaking to me. I immediately apologized and told her I was shocked she would use that type of language to me. She of course apologized too. She has never cussed in front of me since and I have never smacked again.

As a grandmother and the day care provider for all four of my grandchildren I have never been inclined to ever smack any of them. I patted my granddaughter once on her diaper to make the sound of the pamper stop her from harming herself but the pat was not to hurt her.

I find there are many ways to stop the misbehavior before any type of discipline is necessary. Time outs work wonderfully because it gives the child and yourself the opportunity to calm down, reassess the situation and then the chance to talk with them and discuss why they were misbehaving and how they feel and the chance to teach them to say, “I am sorry” and then give hugs to assure them you still love them and everything is okay.

Coming from a family of much physical abuse from my Step father, I vowed to break the pattern in my home. So while we are talking about a “smack” and not violence or abuse, I must say that just the word** smack** for me sounds unpleasant. As some of you have said, a smack to stop immenent danger on the bottom sounds logical and necessary for that type of situation. A smack any where on the body besides the bottom I feel is wrong.

I saw a paddle in a souvenir store and it said,
“Never smack a child in the face, nature provides a better place.” and it had two children bent over showing their covered bottoms.

I also believe parents today are not taking the reponsibility of any form of discipline and the children are growing up and disrespecting adult authority at all ages. We must keep in mind children need and want authority. If this generation decides to opt out and not do their part in teaching consequences for wrong behavior then we have a society of childlren becoming confused, frustrated and with no moral compass. We are seeing the results of this in the increase of shootings in schools, suicides, and substance addictions.

I taught in a Catholic elementary school for 15 years, taught CCD classes to first graders and Confirmation classes for 15 yrs before doing my in home day care for 10 years now. I have seen the effects of NO discipline and no consequences and if I had to choose whether it is morally wrong to smack a child versus do nothing, I would say give the smack on the bottom. It shows the child you care enough to take the time to teach right from wrong and when they are in a situation of harming themselves or someone else.

Thank you to the post who showed Proverbs backs up discipline. Have a great day Moms, Dads, and Grandparents. And we all know no one feels good when they must discipline a child, but the results in teaching them is a huge reward and good feeling of pride. And to those who say, “I will NEVER” spank, or smack my child…poppykosh!

 

[Melchior]

Spanking your child is a form of discipline, or rather THE form of discipline most appropriate for a small child. It is an act of love if it is done calmly, with the child being very aware of what it is for. Spare the rod, spoil the child is actually better translated “sapre the rod, hate the child”.

Children simply do not learn from time outs or taking away fo priviledges until a certain age. You don’t teach a child not to touch a hot stove by giving them a talking to. They need to understand that it hurts to do so.

Spanking in anger is not discipline and therefore wrong and harmful. In our house a spanking is explained and followed up with a hug and an “I love you”. It shows consequences and correction in the context of love and forgiveness. So when a spanking happens our kids don’t run away in fear the reach out to us for comfort. The older the kids are, the rarer the need for spankings and at some point they can be replpaced completely with other consequences more appropriate to their age Spanking a 12 year old is useless. As God disciplines those he loves, and discipline always hurts, so we are to model God’s love in this manner also in the home.

Mel

 

[bellamarie]

Spanking your child is a form of discipline, or rather THE form of discipline most appropriate for a small child. It is an act of love if it is done calmly, with the child being very aware of what it is for. Spare the rod, spoil the child is actually better translated “sapre the rod, hate the child”.

Children simply do not learn from time outs or taking away fo priviledges until a certain age. You don’t teach a child not to touch a hot stove by giving them a talking to. They need to understand that it hurts to do so.

Spanking in anger is not discipline and therefore wrong and harmful. In our house a spanking is explained and followed up with a hug and an “I love you”. It shows consequences and correction in the context of love and forgiveness. So when a spanking happens our kids don’t run away in fear the reach out to us for comfort. The older the kids are, the rarer the need for spankings and at some point they can be replpaced completely with other consequences more appropriate to their age Spanking a 12 year old is useless. As God disciplines those he loves, and discipline always hurts, so we are to model God’s love in this manner also in the home.

Mel

I think the question was:“Is it morally wrong to smack a child?” While I agree there are times a smack on the bottom is warranted I respectfully disagree with " spanking is the appropriate form of discipline for a small child." When you use the term** spanking** I have to say for me it brings to mind, anger and hurt where a child is involved. It’s a bit difficult for a small child to understand that while you are spanking, inflicting hurt, you also are sending a message of love. I say a pat on the bottom is morally okay but spanking does not boad well with me.

Regardless, of the act followed by spanking, the child is seeing the spanking then the love. So can this teach a child to grow up and accept hurt inflicted by their spouses and then the love and forgiveness comes afterwards? Just a thought…with the increase of domestic violence today and the women stating, “I stay because I love him.” I have a difficult time agreeing with teaching spanking a small child is appropriate and a form of love.

Time outs have worked in my home and in my day care for over 35 years and I am proud to say my adult children have become respectful, caring, loving and moral responsible adults and parents. I have shown my day care parents and adult children who are parents, when they stopped the spanking and began the time outs with talking with them and hugs to reassure its all okay, they got positive behavior. Spanking was bringing about rebellion, fear and aggressive behavior in their homes. It ceased when the spanking ceased.

When does spanking become abuse whether it be emotional, physical or mental? Just a thought to ponder…

 

[Melchior]

I think the question was:“Is it morally wrong to smack a child?” While I agree there are times a smack on the bottom is warranted I respectfully disagree with " spanking is the appropriate form of discipline for a small child." When you use the term** spanking** I have to say for me it brings to mind, anger and hurt where a child is involved. It’s a bit difficult for a small child to understand that while you are spanking, inflicting hurt, you also are sending a message of love. I say a pat on the bottom is morally okay but spanking does not boad well with me.

Regardless, of the act followed by spanking, the child is seeing the spanking then the love. So can this teach a child to grow up and accept hurt inflicted by their spouses and then the love and forgiveness comes afterwards? Just a thought…with the increase of domestic violence today and the women stating, “I stay because I love him.” I have a difficult time agreeing with teaching spanking a small child is appropriate and a form of love.

Time outs have worked in my home and in my day care for over 35 years and I am proud to say my adult children have become respectful, caring, loving and moral responsible adults and parents. I have shown my day care parents and adult children who are parents, when they stopped the spanking and began the time outs with talking with them and hugs to reassure its all okay, they got positive behavior. Spanking was bringing about rebellion, fear and aggressive behavior in their homes. It ceased when the spanking ceased.

When does spanking become abuse whether it be emotional, physical or mental? Just a thought to ponder…

You and I are using “spanking” and “pat on the bottom” in the same way I think. Respectfully, I think most people think of spanking as a pat on the bottom. You seem to pour a aggressive meaning into it that is not intended not commonly understood.

You also seem to confuse adult psychology and situations with parent/child relaitonship. They are not the same. Children do not react to minor physical pain from the authority over them (Dad or Mom) in a context of teaching right from wrong or how not to do something dangerous in a manner that is equal to an adult being abused by their spouse, they are two different things. Children know instinctively that parents have a duty to them and children who are properly disciplined know they are loved. Spankings will be very rare because done right, a child will know better.

I am glad you have had good success with out ever patting your children on the bottom but that is hardly the norm. In addition to being the father of three, I have five sisters and a huge extended family and those who were disciplined (spanking to cause a minor sting not violent beating) and those who were not is obvious among my dozens of nephews and nieces. I wonder how you dealt with a 2 year old doing something phsyically dangerous with showing them that they can get hurt? Toddlers do not listen to a stern talking to or a time out. Neither gives them any sense of consequences nor are such things remembered at that age.

Recently, a relative with a son, almost 7 who is a nice little boy but has never been disciplined by spanking dissapeared at their beach house for about 2 hours. He was found okay playing in the water. Thank God. This is typical for him and his younger brother and cousins, all time out and stern talking to kids. They learn nothing and almost tragedies are routine with this family. I am not bragging at all, just noting the difference between traditional vs. Dr. Spock parenting, but my child who is the same age is shocked at the danger her cousins get in and that they do not listen to their parents at all. The reason is obvious, they did not learn the idea of consequences at an earllier age. There parents are the adult version. They grew up the same and are nice successful people. But they are also immoral and irresponsible because they don’t believe in real consequences. From drugs to sexual immorality to abortions and birth control. They never grew up in a certain way and it reflects in their lives.

(continued)

Mel

 

[Melchior]

…continued:

I always know the kids who are never discipled in stores, they are the ones whose parents are exhausted and repeat the same exasperated things over and over and over again to kids who don’t listen.

I believe you, of course, about your own children (daycare is a different story as you are not the parent) but it is always interesting to me to hear about great success in parenting without ever having to give a little spanking from anecdotes, but I have never seen this scenario in real life. I guess it just depends on someones definition of success. For some it means their kids are nice people and are not in jail. For others it means much more. I find those who were never disciplined properly have very little respect for their parents. I have a sister with two adult sons that have no respect for her, they despise her actually. But if you ask her she was very successful in her parenting because they are both “okay”. Did I mention her discipline was the repeat yourself a thousand times with no results, time-out, sent to room type of parenting?

I would like to know what you did when your toddlers went for stoves or electrical outlets?

I mean all of this with the greatest respect of course, and was speaking generally, not to your specifics in most of what I wrote. I also believe that your bad experience with your step-father is heart-breaking and I am so sorry you had to go through that. But your view is clearly reflective of the abuse you suffered, not the very different discipline (not punishment) I am referring to. So I think you will admit you view is more reactionary that objective, which is understandable. My dad spanked in anger a few times, but not usually, so I am very aware of the differences and they are tremendous. When it was calm discipline where he explained why I had to get a spanking the very real sense of my own wrong-doing is what has stayed with me all these decades later. And guess what? I never did those things again, not out of fear but respect and a sense of them being wrong. The couple of times he blew up I have no idea what I did because I just remember being scared.

I should also point out that I think spanking, is only efffective from ages (roughly depending on the child emotional maturity) one and a half to about 7 or 8 at the oldest. Spanking an older child is counter productive, they can now understand the idea of lost priviledges. Believe me I long for the day that all my kids our out of the spanking stage. Thankfully, it is pretty rare and I hate doing it.

Mel

 

[catharina]

You and I are using “spanking” and “pat on the bottom” in the same way I think. Respectfully, I think most people think of spanking as a pat on the bottom. You seem to pour a aggressive meaning into it that is not intended not commonly understood.

You also seem to confuse adult psychology and situations with parent/child relaitonship. They are not the same. Children do not react to minor physical pain from the authority over them (Dad or Mom) in a context of teaching right from wrong or how not to do something dangerous in a manner that is equal to an adult being abused by their spouse, they are two different things. Children know instinctively that parents have a duty to them and children who are properly disciplined know they are loved. Spankings will be very rare because done right, a child will know better.

I am glad you have had good success with out ever patting your children on the bottom but that is hardly the norm. In addition to being the father of three, I have five sisters and a huge extended family and those who were disciplined (spanking to cause a minor sting not violent beating) and those who were not is obvious among my dozens of nephews and nieces. I wonder how you dealt with a 2 year old doing something phsyically dangerous with showing them that they can get hurt? Toddlers do not listen to a stern talking to or a time out. Neither gives them any sense of consequences nor are such things remembered at that age.

Recently, a relative with a son, almost 7 who is a nice little boy but has never been disciplined by spanking dissapeared at their beach house for about 2 hours. He was found okay playing in the water. Thank God. This is typical for him and his younger brother and cousins, all time out and stern talking to kids. They learn nothing and almost tragedies are routine with this family. I am not bragging at all, just noting the difference between traditional vs. Dr. Spock parenting, but my child who is the same age is shocked at the danger her cousins get in and that they do not listen to their parents at all. The reason is obvious, they did not learn the idea of consequences at an earllier age. There parents are the adult version. They grew up the same and are nice successful people. But they are also immoral and irresponsible because they don’t believe in real consequences. From drugs to sexual immorality to abortions and birth control. They never grew up in a certain way and it reflects in their lives.

(continued)

Mel

I can’t imagine what constitues “nice and successful” in your mind if the adults aren’t taking the time to practise simple teaching of obedience and safety to their children. No teaching? Forget the spanking. NO teaching??? Reprehensible. How are they nice or successful?

 

[Melchior]

I can’t imagine what constitues “nice and successful” in your mind if the adults aren’t taking the time to practise simple teaching of obedience and safety to their children. No teaching? Forget the spanking. NO teaching??? Reprehensible. How are they nice or successful?

Well, yeah. It is kind of obvious that good parent constantly teaches their child. Discipline is a part of teaching. Why would you assume it is not? Because you disagree with spanking.

Please forgive me, but I find it very humorous when people preach about teaching children obedience and safety (how about respect too?) without factoring in what is age appropriate. How exactly would you teach my 18 month old daughter these things? Would you sit her down and have a heart to heart and a long talk? You teach in many ways. When she grabs an electrical wire or turns the stove on I have found the only way to teach her, is a light slap on her hand. It is proving most effective and she has not needed a shrink. My older kids I talk to because they understand things at their age that they did not when they were 2 or 3. But my wife and I spend our lives teaching out children every day. We also discipline them when they ignore the words. Which they usually don’t because they were properly disciplined.

You are judging good parenting by bad parenting you have seen and making a blanket judgement that is reactionary, not well reasoned or even born out in reality.

Neglecting to discipline your child is child abuse. Beating a child is child abuse. The hard work of good parenting is nuanced and requires plenty of thought and love. I thank God my parents did a pretty good job of disciplining AND educating me.

I will say that anything more than a tap on the back of the hand or swat on the butt of back of the thigh (depending on the situation) cannot be justified in my book. The point is a slight sting of reality which is what a child’s mind can understand. Cause and effect is different at different ages. You may disagree because you have seen abuse (I have too, btw) but you would tell someone to stop eating because some people are gluttons. Abuse is the misuse of a legitimate thing, not the proper use of it.

 

[catharina]

Well, yeah. It is kind of obvious that good parent constantly teaches their child. Discipline is a part of teaching. Why would you assume it is not? Because you disagree with spanking.

Please forgive me, but I find it very humorous when people preach about teaching children obedience and safety (how about respect too?) without factoring in what is age appropriate. How exactly would you teach my 18 month old daughter these things? Would you sit her down and have a heart to heart and a long talk? You teach in many ways. When she grabs an electrical wire or turns the stove on I have found the only way to teach her, is a light slap on her hand. It is proving most effective and she has not needed a shrink. My older kids I talk to because they understand things at their age that they did not when they were 2 or 3. But my wife and I spend our lives teaching out children every day. We also discipline them when they ignore the words. Which they usually don’t because they were properly disciplined.

You are judging good parenting by bad parenting you have seen and making a blanket judgement that is reactionary, not well reasoned or even born out in reality.

Neglecting to discipline your child is child abuse. Beating a child is child abuse. The hard work of good parenting is nuanced and requires plenty of thought and love. I thank God my parents did a pretty good job of disciplining AND educating me.

I will say that anything more than a tap on the back of the hand or swat on the butt of back of the thigh (depending on the situation) cannot be justified in my book. The point is a slight sting of reality which is what a child’s mind can understand. Cause and effect is different at different ages. You may disagree because you have seen abuse (I have too, btw) but you would tell someone to stop eating because some people are gluttons. Abuse is the misuse of a legitimate thing, not the proper use of it.

Interesting and clever sidestep. Patronizing too. You find me sort of amusing and I find you almost frightening. Still I ask again:

"I can’t imagine what constitutes “nice and successful” in your mind if the adults aren’t taking the time to practice simple teaching of obedience and safety to their children. No teaching? Forget the spanking. NO teaching??? Reprehensible. How are they nice or successful?"

(Incidentally, teaching has nothing to do with physical force unless maybe you’re training animals: dogs, horses, cats … etc.)