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fix
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Illicit drug use is a sin. The Church teaches us that. Legalizing drugs will not save more souls, in fact, it more than likely will cause more souls to be lost.
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Steve_Andersen
Guest
how will more souls be lost?
people who want to get drugs already can get them
by eliminatig the money, corruption , and related crimes legalization will clearly save souls and remove temptation
besides the civil benifits
people who want to get drugs already can get them
by eliminatig the money, corruption , and related crimes legalization will clearly save souls and remove temptation
besides the civil benifits
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fix
Guest
Legalizing them would lend credibility for many to use them.
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Steve_Andersen
Guest
They already use them!
And rip the rest of us off and corrupt the system to feed their habit
If someone wants to tranquilize their mind… Fine! Let them! We’ll be here with the treatment program when they come to their senses
Just as long as they leave the rest of us alone
How many decent cops have died in the war on drugs?
And rip the rest of us off and corrupt the system to feed their habit
If someone wants to tranquilize their mind… Fine! Let them! We’ll be here with the treatment program when they come to their senses
Just as long as they leave the rest of us alone
How many decent cops have died in the war on drugs?
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fix
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More would use them if they were legal. Legalization lends cedibility. We already have “legal” abortion and that has not curtailed abortion.
Legalizing immorality is not a good idea.
Legalizing immorality is not a good idea.
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1samuel
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Steve Andersen:
What separates us, from non Catholics? Law. Where the denom’s use “interpretation” to justify setting there own standards, we have the authority of the church to set ours. Thats why there is one Catholic, and 33,000 denoms. When we start picking and choosing which laws we will obey, we become them. The Greek word for picking and choosing is heretic. We are then, using our own personal judgement over the law of the church. So what sacrifice is there to only obeying the laws that don’t interfere with our lifestyle? Can a gay person be a good catholic obeying all the rules except the chapter on homosexuality? Or a sex addict, or an overeater, or a chronic gambler skip the parts that would require sacrifice? It doesn’t work that way. We have 3 sources of law. The Doctrine, the catechism, and the bible. All 3 say obey Civil law! None of the three say “unless you disagree,” or “may we suggest.” the govt has been corrupt since the beginning of time. But we humble ourselves and accept the decision of the magistyrium. I know I like to think I know more than them about my life, but if I have given myself to the Lord, it’s no longer my life. We are the servants, he is the master. Its very hard for a guy like me to let that soak in, but I must stay focused. And giving up weed is a small cross to bear compared to the gay man or the overeater. Theirs are animal instincts to be overcome. Weed is merely recreation.
I don’t know Steve, I can see your point, and because of a minority of idiots that abuse everything, we get closer to a police state every day. Our legal system is a joke. Random drug testing is an illegal search without probable cause. And it violates my privacy. I don’t feel I need a babysitter. Just because I have a commercial driver licence they own me? I think if they are going to monitor what I do outside work, they should pay me 24-7. But this thread is about the sin of it.
What separates us, from non Catholics? Law. Where the denom’s use “interpretation” to justify setting there own standards, we have the authority of the church to set ours. Thats why there is one Catholic, and 33,000 denoms. When we start picking and choosing which laws we will obey, we become them. The Greek word for picking and choosing is heretic. We are then, using our own personal judgement over the law of the church. So what sacrifice is there to only obeying the laws that don’t interfere with our lifestyle? Can a gay person be a good catholic obeying all the rules except the chapter on homosexuality? Or a sex addict, or an overeater, or a chronic gambler skip the parts that would require sacrifice? It doesn’t work that way. We have 3 sources of law. The Doctrine, the catechism, and the bible. All 3 say obey Civil law! None of the three say “unless you disagree,” or “may we suggest.” the govt has been corrupt since the beginning of time. But we humble ourselves and accept the decision of the magistyrium. I know I like to think I know more than them about my life, but if I have given myself to the Lord, it’s no longer my life. We are the servants, he is the master. Its very hard for a guy like me to let that soak in, but I must stay focused. And giving up weed is a small cross to bear compared to the gay man or the overeater. Theirs are animal instincts to be overcome. Weed is merely recreation.
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Steve_Andersen
Guest
well a joint is a whole world away from abortion so let’s not whip out that red herring right now
BUT you just made my point
I didn’t say legalisation would do away with drug abuse
I just said that it would lower the costs to society
there were abortions before legalisation
and that crime was compounded by corruption of the system
the current situation is it is not a “good” solution by any stretch of the imagination but it is a better solution than what we had before
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fix
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Steve Andersen:
Not a red herring, but an apt analogy.
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rjmporter
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Kevin Walker:
However, I do not believe one can make the case that there is anything but a social difference between marijuana and alcohol or caffine. They are all drug delivery mechanisms, they are all harmful to the body in varying degrees (based upon amount of use), they all alter mood and level of consiousness.
While studys have indicated that small amount of caffine or alcohol may have benificial effects, most cannot clarify if it is the drug or some other component of the delivery mechanism that is providing the benifit.
Just some thoughts
Ross
Cigarattes are not a drug, they are a delivery mechanism for nicotine, which is a highly addictive drug. Beer, Wine, etc are not drugs, they are a delivery mechanism for alcohol, which is a slightly addicitive drug. Marijuana is not a drug, it is a delivery mechanism for THC a slightly addictive drug. Coffee, Soda, Tea, Chocolate, etc are not drugs, they are delivery mechanisms for the drug caffine, which is somewhat addictive and has very painful withdrawl symptoms (any one who has ever had a caffine headache will back me here, I’m sure). To say that the use of “drugs” is a sin, then, is not using the term “drug” as a medical definition, but rather the social definition of “drugs” (ie “Say No Drugs”, “Don’t Do Drugs”, etc)
However, I do not believe one can make the case that there is anything but a social difference between marijuana and alcohol or caffine. They are all drug delivery mechanisms, they are all harmful to the body in varying degrees (based upon amount of use), they all alter mood and level of consiousness.
While studys have indicated that small amount of caffine or alcohol may have benificial effects, most cannot clarify if it is the drug or some other component of the delivery mechanism that is providing the benifit.
Just some thoughts
Ross
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fix
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This is what the Poe has said:
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Steve_Andersen
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well…it’s an analogy
Well that is supposing that there would be more addicts
I don’t hordes of folks who are waiting for the law to change to run out and buy their first fix, do you?
And it ignores the time and money that we spend on cops and judges and prisons and overseas aid to prop-up questionable governments just because they are anti-drug
And, more importantly, the corruption that all that cash garners
I’m sorry for the soul of the addict
But (using the standard that some here a proposing that anything illegal is sinful) under the current system we lose the soul of the addict, the farmers who grow it, the distributors, the pushers, the bribed officials……it goes on and on
Some people are going to do stupid, unwise, ill conceived and uninformed things regardless of what the rest of us do. Why let them drag others down with them?
No that it not what I said
The point I was trying to make that there were abortions before it was legal and there are abortions now. But back then (using the standard that anything illegal is sinful) there was not only the sin of the abortion but the crime of breaking the law. And on top of that there was complicity of officials and the physicians tenuous status both in regards to their Hippocratic Oath AND their medical licenses. All these are potential further sins. Abortion is a terrible thing but now it is out in the open you can see it and get your hands around the beast. Before hand all we had was anecdotal evidence of back alley abortions and guesses about the numbers.
and THAT’S why I said you made my point about drugs when you brought up abortion
I know and that is what I’m having a hard time getting my mind around
To me the standard of what is sinful should be universal. The concept that a behavior is a sin here but not a sin if I take one step over a border just boggles my mind. If something is a sin then it’s a sin and no act of legislature will change that.
There are places on the planet where the age of consent is 12…I know that’s wrong
There are places that still have chattel slavery…I know that’s wrong too
There are places where prostitution, “honor” killing, wife beating, and a host of dubious (at best) things are legal
I’ll give to Caesar as much as the next guy but my soul is my own
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1samuel
Guest
To me the standard of what is sinful should be universal. The concept that a behavior is a sin here but not a sin if I take one step over a border just boggles my mind. If something is a sin then it’s a sin and no act of legislature will change that.
There are places on the planet where the age of consent is 12…I know that’s wrong
There are places that still have chattel slavery…I know that’s wrong too
There are places where prostitution, “honor” killing, wife beating, and a host of dubious (at best) things are legal
I’ll give to Caesar as much as the next guy but my soul is my own
I agree, but what your comparing it to are very immoral laws that effect many innocents. I fail to see a comparison between doin a dube, and beating your wife. If you take away the legality, doin a dube would carry alot less effect than prostitution or wife beating. it effects only you. but what effects? and if millions had the same effects, would it help our ailing world? If it where legal, I’d be the first to fire but I would still feel compelled to conceal it from my teen age daughters. I would still discourage it. The law is never gonna work. you cant keep it out of the hands of kids. it is a massive waste of funds and If pot where legal, maybe the harder stuff that remained illegal would die down. Maybe theres millions like me that hate the effect of alcohol but still would like to enjoy the party with everyone else, and if there was a legal alternative, would be less inclined to desire the hard (illegal) drugs. If its all illegal, than it dont really matter what you pick. Right? On the other hand, most the people I know that have smoked all along have not progressed much past high school. lousy jobs, live in dumpy neighborhoods, their kids have more serious problems. I could be that they were destined to remain behind anyway, but I dont really believe thats the case. I hope my kids get a good foothold on life before (if ever)they discover it. Getting the good jobs now require ambition and education. and for most young people, they effects of frequent use contradict. So legal, or not, the weed causes problems.
There are places on the planet where the age of consent is 12…I know that’s wrong
There are places that still have chattel slavery…I know that’s wrong too
There are places where prostitution, “honor” killing, wife beating, and a host of dubious (at best) things are legal
I’ll give to Caesar as much as the next guy but my soul is my own
I agree, but what your comparing it to are very immoral laws that effect many innocents. I fail to see a comparison between doin a dube, and beating your wife. If you take away the legality, doin a dube would carry alot less effect than prostitution or wife beating. it effects only you. but what effects? and if millions had the same effects, would it help our ailing world? If it where legal, I’d be the first to fire but I would still feel compelled to conceal it from my teen age daughters. I would still discourage it. The law is never gonna work. you cant keep it out of the hands of kids. it is a massive waste of funds and If pot where legal, maybe the harder stuff that remained illegal would die down. Maybe theres millions like me that hate the effect of alcohol but still would like to enjoy the party with everyone else, and if there was a legal alternative, would be less inclined to desire the hard (illegal) drugs. If its all illegal, than it dont really matter what you pick. Right? On the other hand, most the people I know that have smoked all along have not progressed much past high school. lousy jobs, live in dumpy neighborhoods, their kids have more serious problems. I could be that they were destined to remain behind anyway, but I dont really believe thats the case. I hope my kids get a good foothold on life before (if ever)they discover it. Getting the good jobs now require ambition and education. and for most young people, they effects of frequent use contradict. So legal, or not, the weed causes problems.
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fix
Guest
My point is that some who would never think of using it would try it because there would no longer be a law against it. I am certain abortion is more common now becuase it is so widely accepted, not the only reason, but an important one. The stigma is lost partly due to legalization.
I think there are two issue here. One issue is that any just law from a legitimate authority must be followed. To intentionally break it is a sin. This is the teaching of the Church. It may not be a mortal sin in each case, but stll a sin. The state has authority from the creator to enact laws and regulate society.
It would appear to me that the Vatican may be saying that smoking marijuana, for non medical purposes, would be a sin regardless of it’s legal status. That is the quote I posted from JPII.
It depends on the act. Some things are universally sinful, but we are oblioged to be obedient to the civil law. Laws vary from place to place. Obedience is the issue. Look at dioceses. Each has a bishop that may have different directives from each other. As long as they are not in conflict with Church teaching, then one is bound to obey them.
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1samuel
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Since the costs involved with the war on drugs seems to be a motivation to legalize. The jails would no longer be over crowded, tax dollars no longer wasted on special police, and the price of drugs would drop. Lets put a different slant on it. What if everyone in the U.S. obeyed the law? If everyone did, the jails would be empty, there would be no drug cartel getting rich, no need for special cops, or drug rehab programs. If for once in the history of mankind, we, as a people did exactly what we were supposed to, instead of what we want. what a world we would have then.
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demolitionman65
Guest
At the risk of oversimplfying:
If marijuana is legal, then it should be OK to use in moderation, based on the user’s creful measure of his/her ability to maintain moderate use.
If it is not legal, then it should not be consumed.
It is on par (in my mind) with alcohol.
Now, another moral question, is should we as a society pursue laws criminilizing the use of pot? That is another question.
Personally, I see no reason for the use of the stuff. It is best left alone.
If marijuana is legal, then it should be OK to use in moderation, based on the user’s creful measure of his/her ability to maintain moderate use.
If it is not legal, then it should not be consumed.
It is on par (in my mind) with alcohol.
Now, another moral question, is should we as a society pursue laws criminilizing the use of pot? That is another question.
Personally, I see no reason for the use of the stuff. It is best left alone.
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Fox
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All smoking is a sin like Italy was saying, you are defiling your body. There is no real advantages or health benefits for it. Even in moderation you are still putting yourself at risk into developing something worse. Find pleasure else where besides the disgusting habit of smoking anything.
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bluezone7
Guest
Marijuana is illegal in the US and most of the Western World but it should not be illegal in all cases. The terminally ill or sick should be allowed to use marijuana. All drugs have legitimate medical purposes. Plus I think all drugs have cultural attachments … meaning certain drugs are more acceptable and can be used with no or very little abuse in certain cultures while certain drugs are abused. As some cultures allow people to use hash/marijuana and there are very little problems of abuse but they socially would not be able to handle wine/beer; or vice versa. In most cases though drugs should not be illegal … as morals and laws are not always the same. Law can change over time but sin and good morality never change. Drug abuse is a sin!
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AlanFromWichita
Guest
First, I do not advocate breaking the law, and my comments below are based on the nature of the substances and their effects on the user.
Marijuana cannot be considered sinful just because it may cause physical harm to one’s own body, or else Jesus would be condemned by the same measure. Alcohol, even in small quantities, kills brain cells. Does it have effects that offset that? Arguably, yes. Jesus drank alcohol, so the harm to his body must have been mitigated in some way – could it be the psycho/social aspects of drinking were important to His ministry such that they offset this? If so, then how can smoking a joint with a drug addict be immoral, if it helps win that person for Christ? Jesus and Paul went to where the sinners were.
Why is it presumed that marijuana has only “recreational” use while legal psychoactive drugs have “therapeutic” uses? There are no such things as side effects; there are only effects that vary by user, though some are printed in larger font than others.
What is wrong with using marijuana to calm down or escape reality? Isn’t that exactly what contemplative prayer techniques are designed to do – temporarily escape the temporal reality we have come to perceive so that we can separate ourselves from it? Do we really think that Jesus’s followers only drank alcohol because studies showed it can reduce the risk of heart attack or stroke, or did they drink because they liked the way it made them feel? If it was sinful for them to drink, do you think Jesus would have joined them in it? Maybe He instructed them that He was only drinking to improve His chances against cancer.
Note: this is not an endorsement of marijuana use. It is an attack against some of the typical cliches against it.
Alan
Marijuana cannot be considered sinful just because it may cause physical harm to one’s own body, or else Jesus would be condemned by the same measure. Alcohol, even in small quantities, kills brain cells. Does it have effects that offset that? Arguably, yes. Jesus drank alcohol, so the harm to his body must have been mitigated in some way – could it be the psycho/social aspects of drinking were important to His ministry such that they offset this? If so, then how can smoking a joint with a drug addict be immoral, if it helps win that person for Christ? Jesus and Paul went to where the sinners were.
Why is it presumed that marijuana has only “recreational” use while legal psychoactive drugs have “therapeutic” uses? There are no such things as side effects; there are only effects that vary by user, though some are printed in larger font than others.
What is wrong with using marijuana to calm down or escape reality? Isn’t that exactly what contemplative prayer techniques are designed to do – temporarily escape the temporal reality we have come to perceive so that we can separate ourselves from it? Do we really think that Jesus’s followers only drank alcohol because studies showed it can reduce the risk of heart attack or stroke, or did they drink because they liked the way it made them feel? If it was sinful for them to drink, do you think Jesus would have joined them in it? Maybe He instructed them that He was only drinking to improve His chances against cancer.
Note: this is not an endorsement of marijuana use. It is an attack against some of the typical cliches against it.
Alan
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trailblazer
Guest
Harmful to the brain. Studies have demonstrated changes in brain function, including decreased cognition over time. As our bodies are temples of the Spirit, we should take care of them.
Harmful to the soul. Self-centeredness. Excapism. In smoking marijuana, one is relying on something to provide him an artificial high. It takes no effort on man’s part. To me its like saying that I am going to be my own God, make myself feel a certain way, and hide from the life God has given me. God has provided us life for highs – love of a partner, beauty of nature, pets, church… We should seek our consolations in Him rather than drugs!
Harmful to the soul. Self-centeredness. Excapism. In smoking marijuana, one is relying on something to provide him an artificial high. It takes no effort on man’s part. To me its like saying that I am going to be my own God, make myself feel a certain way, and hide from the life God has given me. God has provided us life for highs – love of a partner, beauty of nature, pets, church… We should seek our consolations in Him rather than drugs!
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Trelow
Guest
It is always a sin where it is illegal per ccc2291.
Where it is legal it is a sin when ccc 2290 is met.
Where it is legal it is a sin when ccc 2290 is met.
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