Is suffering good or bad?

[meltzerboy]

Why is it considered essential, according to Catholic teaching, to suffer by taking up one’s Cross and, at the same time, just as essential to attempt to alleviate suffering? Is there no inherent contradiction here? Or is this not what Catholicism teaching?

 

[po18guy]

Our Lord suffered for us, choosing to suffer for love of us. This concept is easily observable in the human condition, apart from creation and redemption history. The L-rd has commanded us not to sin, yet we continue to do so. At some level, He also suffers when we sin. Under Mosaic law, the blood of animals is offered up in atonement for human isn, thus, in a way, creation itself suffers. As Christians, through our baptism, we become members of the Body of Christ - therefore our suffering becomes a tiny portion of Christ’s suffering, and also has redemptive value. We can apply our suffering for the temporal or eternal benefit of others, since, as members of His Body, we have the authority to do so. Suffering then becomes a form of blessing, rather than a curse.

Yet, there is also the relief of the suffering of others, which is also a part of love. We are commanded to relieve suffering, out of love of our neighbor, which the parable of the good Samaritan teaches us, is not always those whom we naturally would love. Since G-d chose to take flesh, not only for His own good via our redemption, but also so that we might not suffer eternal separation from Him, there is value in the alleviation of suffering. As well, the alleviation of suffering also requires some form of sacrifice, and this makes love manifest.

 

[thewanderer]

Why is it considered essential, according to Catholic teaching, to suffer by taking up one’s Cross and, at the same time, just as essential to attempt to alleviate suffering? Is there no inherent contradiction here? Or is this not what Catholicism teaching?

Suffering is, in and of itself, an evil, which entered the world through disobedience and sin. Because of this Catholics are meant to try to help others and alleviate their suffering, however, seeing as mankind is fallen, everyone is going to end up suffering. Catholicism teaches that Christ, in suffering and dying on the cross has raised up suffering so that good can come from it. In other words, suffering can become redemptive when embraced and offered up to God for the good of others. While it would be better if there were no suffering, if there had been no original sin, the suffering that we all end up experiencing can become transformed into a beautiful and good thing through joining it to Christ’s suffering and offering it up for the good of others.

Hope this helps!

 

[King_Lazy]

Why is it considered essential, according to Catholic teaching, to suffer by taking up one’s Cross and, at the same time, just as essential to attempt to alleviate suffering? Is there no inherent contradiction here? Or is this not what Catholicism teaching?

Suffering is an evil that should be avoided and alleviated. When unavoidable, as is the case for everybody at some stage of their lives, it should be offered to God for the salvation of our own souls and that of others, that good may thus come of it.

 

[pablope]

Why is it considered essential, according to Catholic teaching, to suffer by taking up one’s Cross and, at the same time, just as essential to attempt to alleviate suffering? Is there no inherent contradiction here? Or is this not what Catholicism teaching?

I will post my favorite quote about suffering from St. John Vianney…There are two ways of suffering — to suffer with love, and to suffer without love…If we loved God, we should love crosses, we should wish for them, we should take pleasure in them. . . . We should be happy to be able to suffer for the love of Him who lovingly suffered for us. Of what do we complain?..Only we must love while we suffer, and suffer while we love.

saints.sqpn.com/catechism-on-suffering-by-saint-john-vianney/

And this one from Scott Hahn…catholiceducation.org/articles/apologetics/ap0091.html

It goes on, 1st Peter 4, verse 8, “Above all hold unfailing your love for one another since love covers a multitude of sins.” In other words, it’s not just Christ suffering. It’s not just Christ’s love that covers our sins. We are so truly united to Christ, His life is so truly filling us up that when we suffer, we cease from sin. It isn’t just Christ suffering. It’s Christ suffering lived out in us and through us for our sake and for those around us, but then as charity flowers and becomes complete and perfect in us, love covers a multitude of sins. Why? Because Christ’s love wasn’t enough, He didn’t suffer long enough? No, because His suffering and His redemption having been finished and accomplished by the Holy Spirit, the third forgotten Person of the Trinity, applied in us who are mystical members of His mystical body.

 

[Gabriel_Serafin]

Why is it considered essential, according to Catholic teaching, to suffer by taking up one’s Cross and, at the same time, just as essential to attempt to alleviate suffering? Is there no inherent contradiction here? Or is this not what Catholicism teaching?

We all suffer in life, thus it is an opportunity for all of us to love by caring for one another. But there are many aspects to suffering, and one pertains to the requirement for becoming a disciple of Christ. In a sense, the simple truism* no pain–no gain* gets to the heart of it. A few analogies might help here. If your aim is to become a world class athlete, then you must endure the suffering and pain of discipline, hard work, self denial, and exercise. Likewise, if you wish to become a master violinist you must endure the suffering of study, hard work, self denial (you don’t feel like practicing) and discipline. This really applies to anything worthwhile in the natural order. You want perfect score on the exam? Guess what—you must “suffer” hours of study and hard work. This is no different in the spiritual order. Christ said that nothing imperfect can enter heaven. Thus the aim for man is to become perfect " Be you therefore perfect, as also your heavenly Father is perfect." Matt. 5:48 This means that we must die to our disordered passions, to our petty sins, to our false idols, etc. One thing is for sure; everyone has crosses in life and it is through the cross God can weave holiness in human beings.

Sometimes what seems like a unbearable cross is actually a blessing. Often times, the only way God can get someone’s attention is through suffering. For example, the Greatest Commandment is to love God with our whole heart, with our whole mind and with all our strength. But if in this life we often put false idols in our heart that take the place of God— i.e., money, success, pleasure, power, entertainment, self indulgence, etc., Sometimes the only way to get such a person’s attention is through pain. The only time some people turn to God is in times of trouble or need. Thus if a person living a life which will end up in damnation,a life-changing tragedy that leads the person to God is actually a blessing.

The purpose of man is to be supremely happy. The only way man can be supremely happy is to be in perfect union with the source of happiness (God). Thus, our supreme purpose in life is to know God, to love God and to serve God in this brief earthly life and to live with Him in eternity after the earthly life ends and we are “hatched” into what God intended for us. GOD is Truth, Love, Goodness and Beauty itself. The vocation of every follower of Jesus Christ is to become a saint though God’s sanctifying grace which we receive in overflowing measures through the Seven Sacraments. We are to become like soft clay in God’s hands so that He molds us into what He wants in us. Sometimes we are as hard as marble—that’s when God has to use a chisel.

But the suffering we endure in this life can have great value when we “offer it up” by uniting it to the sufferings of Christ. Then, our pain it becomes redemptive suffering St. Paul speaks about it…in Colossians 1:24 " rejoice in my sufferings for you, and fill up those things that are wanting of the sufferings of Christ, in my flesh, for his body, which is the church"* Thus prayer when united to fasting (self-denial) is very powerful.

Understand that the Hebrew word Cahal in Greek translates to Ekklesia, which in English we say “Church” (Spanish it’s “Iglesia”) The word Cahal simply means “The People of God”. Christ said that He would build His Church (Cahal). The Church is also understood to be the Mystical Body of Christ, which is composed of all its members. Each member fulfills his or her vocation in life as a member of the body; each person in the Church being like a cell in the body; each has a role to play.*

 

[EmeraldWings]

Suffering is *not *an evil, not in and of itself or otherwise, to cause suffering with an evil intention is bad, but the suffering itself is not, otherwise God would have no part of it,

suffering was a *consequence *brought into the world out of Gods mercy, because only by suffering can we gain control of ourselves and subject the body to the soul,
the purpose of suffering is not only to make reparation for wrongdoings, but it is a means to offer God a sacrifice of praise of his divine right over creatures, to unite oneself with Christ in his sufferings as an expression of love, and in the process to become more like Christ, Who having joy set before him, chose the Cross, and thus “to make up all that has still to be undergone by Christ for the sake of His body, the Church” (I Colosians 1:24).
God causes suffering, and yet He cannot cause evil either directly or indirectly, so to say suffering is evil in and of itself, is a great mistake, it is no more true of God than it is of a parent who disciplines their child, suffering is a reaction to pain, and it has it’s divinely intended purpose,

evil, on the other hand, is a lack of God, it is where He is not, it is the result of turning away from God, it is the choice to be void of Him in our thoughts, desires, or actions,
but since Christ suffered more than any other creature(because He loved most) then how is suffering evil? and why would He ask us to likewise suffer?
perhaps i don’t need to go into much detail on the matter, but i think it’s very important to understand this truth, because if God causes suffering, by both His mercy and His justice, then how can we say suffering is evil?
here is an article which goes into much greater detail on suffering - z13.invisionfree.com/DominamStellaMaris/index.php?showtopic=49

but to answer the OP’s question,
it is good to suffer, but that is personal, we should not cause suffering to others, unless it is someone under us, such as children who must be disciplined, and we should alleviate the sufferings of others because often times, while God allows suffering for our benefit, He also allows it in others as a chance for us to show charity to others, and be an example to them of followers of Christ, and also as a chance to do good to Jesus, who tells us that what we do to others, good or bad, by action or neglect, we also do to Him,
and don’t worry about alleviating the sufferings of others as if we’re depriving them of soemthing, because we by no means take them all away, there are plenty more to come.

unless you are speaking of your own suffering, to allow or alleviate it from ourselves…in that regard, we are told to suffer willingly, but also to take care of our health, if you are sick or have something wrong which threatens your health, then most certainly you must do what you can about it, but it’s those things which don’t threaten our health, or those things which, after prayer and examination, cannot be cured, that we are asked to endure…it’s just a matter of prudence,
and although you must take care of your health, you can still endure and offer up every pain and suffering, even if you are trying to overcome it, just offer it up while you can.

but physical suffering is only one kind, there are also many other ways we can suffer which do not effect our health, and how we endure those is by patience, silence, and charity,
for example, putting up with an irritating neighbor or fellow employee, or when things are just not going your way, or when something very disappointing happens…etc. etc.
there’s probably an endless list of things we can offer up, and if you want some more good examples, check out the lives of the saints, or the 3 Fatima children, they were particularly heroic in penance,

but for more information on suffering, check out these -
audiosancto.org
keepthefaith.org
fultonsheen.com/Fulton-Sheen-MP3.cfm

alright, hope this helps, take care.

 

[Gabriel_Serafin]

Thought_Officer:

If suffering becomes a doctrinally bad thing, rather than something we should want to have for Christ’s sake, God starts to look quite impotent, as he is purported to be powerful enough to alleviate it.

Either suffering is good, and God chooses not to alleviate it for this reason, OR
Suffering is bad, in which case it would appear God is quite powerless against it.

God has the power to alleviate suffering, and he does so when He gives us a share in His eternal life, once our earthly pilgrimage and trial is complete. Christ makes this clear, and the gift of Eternal Life makes the 76.6 average lifespan filled with trials and sufferings but a very brief experience—a chance to freely seal our eternal lot. The problem with many people is that they are living life not knowing what the point is in the first place, thus the question of suffering is a stumbling block.

As far as alleviating suffering on earth, God does perform miracles all the time—just do your research. For example, read about the documented miracles at Lourdes. But for some, suffering is the only means through which man ever turns to God. Apparently it takes a foxhole and dire straights for atheists to come around. But without God man is lost, thus if suffering turns man to God it is a great blessing.

Yet much suffering in the world comes directly from the hand of man and his indifference and hate for his fellow human being or toward his responsibilities in life. For example, a man who misuses his gift of sexuality and turns it into a mere pleasure seeking toy for self indulgence, the suffering that comes from fatherless homes, broken marriages, infidelities, addictions to pornography, etc. etc. are introduced into the lives of others.
Much evil in the world is the consequence of free will. Thus it is that Christ teaches the way of love, which is not a feeling but rather an act of the will. But virtue is only possible in a world where vice and sin is a free choice.

Yet suffering is also a means to sanctification, and the saying * No pain, No gain* rings true in the spiritual quest for holiness as it does in the physical. The pain and suffering of exercise and self-denial can transform a man into an athlete, and the pain and suffering of study and practice can turn out a world class violinist, so too the suffering of self-denial and dying to the world can produce holiness in a soul. The objective of our life is to allow God to weave saintliness in us and turn a wretch into a saint through a dying to ourselves and allowing God to mold us like clay. Often times, people are as hard as marble, and God has to use a chisel. Thus the reason why many people only turn to God in times of suffering and pain. Otherwise they might be lost in the pleasures and endless empty entertainments of the world which lead away from God and into the slavery of sin and its cruel master, which leads to an eternal separation from God, who is Truth, Goodness, Beauty and Love itself…

img39.imageshack.us/img39/2715/suffering.jpg

 

[LovePatience]

Why is it considered essential, according to Catholic teaching, to suffer by taking up one’s Cross and, at the same time, just as essential to attempt to alleviate suffering? Is there no inherent contradiction here? Or is this not what Catholicism teaching?

It is a little deeper than that. Suffering is not equivalent to taking up one’s Cross. Suffering, for the will of God is what it means to take up one’s cross. If the will of God were that one do not suffer, then it would be essential to refuse to suffer. Does that help? “Obedience is better than sacrifice.” The temptation to not obey in times of suffering is greater so it is more emphasized.

Look at Christ. He purposefully avoided being killed at certain times, but when it was time to be crucified, he accepted this although first he asked if this cup would be taken from him.

There’s a mystic, St. Julian of Norwich who writes that sin was necessary (this is a stronger statement than most who say that God simply allowed it). She explains part of the reason why but says the rest is a mystery for the end of time. She goes a little into what sin actually is. Have only read a summary, but it should be in Revelations of Divine Love.

The apparent contradiction is that this world is not the world we are supposed to be living in. It is an exile, a punishment. The world we are supposed to be living in is Paradise where there is no suffering and no Cross to take up. The reason that suffering is here is because of sin and the fall of Adam and Eve. The way back to Paradise must be merited, to earn Paradise, a place where there is no suffering, is through suffering. That’s fair. If you sit around and let others suffer, why should someone relieve your own suffering?

Its not really only Catholic teaching anyways. Its also a secular fact of reality. Many secular people that we admire, say Gandhi, Martin Luther King or Elie Wiesel, earn our admiration either through bearing suffering w/o becoming evil while helping to end suffering. By shutting up about colonialism, Gandhi could have avoided being imprisoned and assassinated. He didn’t really get to enjoy the fruits of lack of colonialism while he was dead, did he? Is it really that beneficial to him that we respect him and highly admire him now that he is dead?

From St. Paul on this apparent contradiction.

1 Corinthians 15:19. **Then those who have fallen asleep in Christ have perished. 19If for this life only we have hoped in Christ, we are the most pitiable people of all. **

It boils down to the existence of an afterlife. If there is an afterlife, where we are rewarded for suffering, then suffering a little now, to merit eternal lack of suffering makes sense. If there is no afterlife, Catholic teaching is more cruel and inhumane than any other teaching in the world.

But to turn the question back: isn’t this Jewish teaching as well, that those who spend more time making the world a better place receive a bigger portion of the afterlife? And doesn’t the time/effort/energy/life spent making the world a better place instead of spending time focusing on one’s own needs cause one suffering by default, especially if there are people who resist your efforts to make the world a better place?

 

[thewanderer]

Suffering is *not *an evil, not in and of itself or otherwise, to cause suffering with an evil intention is bad, but the suffering itself is not, otherwise God would have no part of it,

suffering was a *consequence *brought into the world out of Gods mercy, because only by suffering can we gain control of ourselves and subject the body to the soul,
the purpose of suffering is not only to make reparation for wrongdoings, but it is a means to offer God a sacrifice of praise of his divine right over creatures, to unite oneself with Christ in his sufferings as an expression of love, and in the process to become more like Christ, Who having joy set before him, chose the Cross, and thus “to make up all that has still to be undergone by Christ for the sake of His body, the Church” (I Colosians 1:24).
God causes suffering, and yet He cannot cause evil either directly or indirectly, so to say suffering is evil in and of itself, is a great mistake, it is no more true of God than it is of a parent who disciplines their child, suffering is a reaction to pain, and it has it’s divinely intended purpose,

evil, on the other hand, is a lack of God, it is where He is not, it is the result of turning away from God, it is the choice to be void of Him in our thoughts, desires, or actions,
but since Christ suffered more than any other creature(because He loved most) then how is suffering evil? and why would He ask us to likewise suffer?
perhaps i don’t need to go into much detail on the matter, but i think it’s very important to understand this truth, because if God causes suffering, by both His mercy and His justice, then how can we say suffering is evil?
here is an article which goes into much greater detail on suffering - z13.invisionfree.com/DominamStellaMaris/index.php?showtopic=49
…

so far as I understand it, suffering is not caused by God, but is allowed by God, just like evil and death. Suffering is a punishment, in other words, it is something bad, men did not suffer before the fall, but because of original sin suffering and death became a part of their existence. I’m not saying that a person who is suffering is committing evil, that would obviously be ridiculous, but that it is not the suffering itself, but rather the person’s response to the suffering which is good and can be redemptive.

 

[EmeraldWings]

so far as I understand it, suffering is not caused by God, but is allowed by God, just like evil and death. Suffering is a punishment, in other words, it is something bad, men did not suffer before the fall, but because of original sin suffering and death became a part of their existence. I’m not saying that a person who is suffering is committing evil, that would obviously be ridiculous, but that it is not the suffering itself, but rather the person’s response to the suffering which is good and can be redemptive.

suffering is good because it is necessary for our good, and although a consequence of our sins, it was brought into the world by Gods mercy for us, as a means of escaping true suffering(hell), among many other things, but how we receive suffering can be good or bad,
sin is bad yes, but the suffering which comes as a result of our sins, either as penance or consequence, is the good brought out of our sin, since it is the means God gives us to recover from our sins and make reparation for them, among other things.
suffering is caused by God the same way a parent disciplines their children, and is the discipline of the child bad(done properly of course)? when it teaches them and trains them to be good? but it is good whether the child learns from it or not, because, as i said, it is necessary.
we only consider suffering bad or evil because we don’t like it, our bodies are more often than not in control of us even to the point of our logic and reason, we are slaves to our bodies more than we know, and in this case, since our bodies don’t like pain, then to the untrained(or undisciplined) will, we are going to listen without question.

and then suffering as a punishment by the justice of God, is also good, because it is Gods will, and if *“God alone is good”, *then all He does is good as well.
and when you consider suffering as a punishment, you also must ask yourself, who is the punisher? and if God punishes, then does He do something bad? no…the punishment is not bad, it is what we are being punished for that is bad.

there are natural consequences to sin, and we do suffer things which God did not cause us to suffer, because really there are many things which we suffer by our own fault, or in other words, things like self-pity, anger, impatience, pride…in those cases, we suffer because we are unwilling to repent of those things and end up suffering more.

suffering as a punishment is good, and suffering as a means of recovering from our sins and growing in holiness is good…the only thing that compels us to see it as bad is that it doesn’t feel good…
but what is suffering in and of itself? simply a reaction, and a tool.

sin is bad because it is without God, it is a lack of Him, and other than sin what is bad? suffering is not without God, because after all, did not God suffer with us? and us with Him? and what did Job say? “The Lord giveth, and the Lord takest away” God gives us sufferings, and takes them away as well.

well, i don’t want to make this too long, so here are a couple books i think might explain it better -
gaiaonline.com/guilds/viewtopic.php?t=18175319
gaiaonline.com/guilds/viewtopic.php?t=18087275

hope that helps, take care.

 

[Kathryn_Ann]

The purpose of man is to be supremely happy. The only way man can be supremely happy is to be in perfect union with the source of happiness (God).

There is something else first, before man’s happiness:

From the Baltimore Catechism:
“# 3. Why did God make us?
God made us to show forth His goodness and to share with us His everlasting happiness in heaven.
Eye has not seen nor ear heard, nor has it entered into the heart of man, what things God has prepared for those who love him. (I Corinthians 2:9)”

The purpose of man is clearly stated “God made us to show forth his goodness.” The happiness may not come to us all in this life, but will in Heaven. We see evidence every day of innocent suffering such as victims of famine and natural disasters. So, we first show God’s goodness by doing all we can to help, to alleviate their suffering. We must first work to show God’s goodness in a world filled with suffering. Our everlasting happiness is not promised until Heaven. How indeed, can we be completely happy if some of the Body of Christ is still suffering? A body feels pain even it’s “least” member is in pain. “Seek ye first the Kingdom of God, .and all these things will be added unto you.” We are created to show God’s goodness, and all the things we desire will be added. God is so much more than a source of man’s happiness. When we know Him “face to face” we will see all the love, al the glory, all the knowledge, all the mystery and endless goodness that is the glory of God.

 

[fhansen]

Why is it considered essential, according to Catholic teaching, to suffer by taking up one’s Cross and, at the same time, just as essential to attempt to alleviate suffering? Is there no inherent contradiction here? Or is this not what Catholicism teaching?

Suffering in this life is inevitable; taking up the Cross (standing for truth and righteousness) can only add to this inevitability.

 

[nuntym]

+JMJ+

Why is it considered essential, according to Catholic teaching, to suffer by taking up one’s Cross and, at the same time, just as essential to attempt to alleviate suffering? Is there no inherent contradiction here? Or is this not what Catholicism teaching?

As everyone has already said, suffering is evil by itself, yet it is necessary by justice because of man’s sins. However, the amazing thing about the Catholic Faith is that it teaches that nothing needs to be wasted, even evil. So if you see someone getting hurt, you try to remove the suffering because the suffering is evil by itself. And yet, if suffering is happening to you, you try to get the suffering off of you, but in the meantime you can bear it and offer the suffering that is unavoidable to God, for suffering rightly borne is such a precious commodity.

 

[Bix]

Why do some people suffer so much longer than others?
Why do some continue to suffer even after changing and saying, God please take over?

Why, even after not losing, but strengthing their faith, keeping their morals intact after many unsavory opportunities to relieve their problems, being mocked and told they are stupid and are they still glad to have their morals- why does it continue? When does God say - you passed? (if only for a brief period of peace)

 

[meltzerboy]

It is a little deeper than that. Suffering is not equivalent to taking up one’s Cross. Suffering, for the will of God is what it means to take up one’s cross. If the will of God were that one do not suffer, then it would be essential to refuse to suffer. Does that help? “Obedience is better than sacrifice.” The temptation to not obey in times of suffering is greater so it is more emphasized.

Look at Christ. He purposefully avoided being killed at certain times, but when it was time to be crucified, he accepted this although first he asked if this cup would be taken from him.

There’s a mystic, St. Julian of Norwich who writes that sin was necessary (this is a stronger statement than most who say that God simply allowed it). She explains part of the reason why but says the rest is a mystery for the end of time. She goes a little into what sin actually is. Have only read a summary, but it should be in Revelations of Divine Love.

The apparent contradiction is that this world is not the world we are supposed to be living in. It is an exile, a punishment. The world we are supposed to be living in is Paradise where there is no suffering and no Cross to take up. The reason that suffering is here is because of sin and the fall of Adam and Eve. The way back to Paradise must be merited, to earn Paradise, a place where there is no suffering, is through suffering. That’s fair. If you sit around and let others suffer, why should someone relieve your own suffering?

Its not really only Catholic teaching anyways. Its also a secular fact of reality. Many secular people that we admire, say Gandhi, Martin Luther King or Elie Wiesel, earn our admiration either through bearing suffering w/o becoming evil while helping to end suffering. By shutting up about colonialism, Gandhi could have avoided being imprisoned and assassinated. He didn’t really get to enjoy the fruits of lack of colonialism while he was dead, did he? Is it really that beneficial to him that we respect him and highly admire him now that he is dead?

From St. Paul on this apparent contradiction.

It boils down to the existence of an afterlife. If there is an afterlife, where we are rewarded for suffering, then suffering a little now, to merit eternal lack of suffering makes sense. If there is no afterlife, Catholic teaching is more cruel and inhumane than any other teaching in the world.

But to turn the question back: isn’t this Jewish teaching as well, that those who spend more time making the world a better place receive a bigger portion of the afterlife? And doesn’t the time/effort/energy/life spent making the world a better place instead of spending time focusing on one’s own needs cause one suffering by default, especially if there are people who resist your efforts to make the world a better place?

Jewish thinking on the problem of suffering and evil runs the gamut throughout the ages from theodicy to antitheodicy and viewpoints in between. Some do believe in the redemptive power of both personal suffering and suffering on behalf of others, although alleviating the suffering of others should not be done explicitly for the purpose of achieving a greater reward in the World to Come, and neither should martyrdom be in order to achieve self-glory. I’m sure Catholicism would agree with this view. The prevalent perspective in Judaism is that suffering is unfathomable when one applies human reason, and this is where faith is essential. That is, we are given–even required–to rail against suffering, on the basis of the human reason G-d has bestowed upon us. This has been taken so far by rabbis as to accuse G-d and make Him the defendant for the suffering brought on by natural disasters, such as earthquakes and hurricanes, as well as for allowing the suffering caused by mankind, such as during genocide. Such mock trials are not uncommon in Jewish teaching, including on the day of Yom Kippur. Even Moses confronted G-d for His wrath against Israel, pleading on behalf of the Jewish people. Nonetheless, we are also required to realize that there is a higher rationale which goes beyond human reason. This is the mind of G-d, which, contrary to human thought, has not created suffering and evil but allows its occurrence for the purpose of a greater good in Heaven and Earth. Again, I believe Catholicism is in accord with this belief.

 

[Bix]

My apologies for going off subject on this thread. I tried to delete my post, but it was too late. Sorry…

 

[meltzerboy]

Why do some people suffer so much longer than others?
Why do some continue to suffer even after changing and saying, God please take over?

Why, even after not losing, but strengthing their faith, keeping their morals intact after many unsavory opportunities to relieve their problems, being mocked and told they are stupid and are they still glad to have their morals- why does it continue? When does God say - you passed? (if only for a brief period of peace)

All great questions, but unfathomable, I think, by the human mind alone. They can only be answered by applying the faith that G-d uses suffering for a higher purpose. See my post above.

 

[Bix]

I understand and agree with much of what you stated above in your post.
However, I can’t begin to fathom outright questioning God as to why. . Clearly, he is omnipotent and we are mere humans. The thought of questioning him seems almost disrespectful or in simple terms- really asking for it. The tradition to rail against suffering- that boggles my mind. Yes, it is human, but respectfully what is the purpose to be gained by these mock trials? I take it you meant you are not in agreement with this ( or maybe it’s too late for me to try and respond or ask properly. )

I have been through and experienced many trials and sufferings that most people can’t relate to; much less understand why I still have hope and belief. I understand all things occur or are permitted for a purpose, but I am trying to grasp why a few have so many and such extreme, unusual trials. ( things too unrealistic for a soap opera on tv ) Life is not fair, but I truly believe God wants and deeply desires for us to have some happiness or quiet peace while here. Especially, when we are striving to do as he wishes. I have seen the blessings from trials endured from two years of suffering that I would repeat in a second to ensure not missing what I learned in the end, but at some point - are we simply missing that we are living wrong and held to a higher standard for some reason or have we somewhere missed by judging we aren’t that bad because because we are judging ourselves against other people and not God’s standard?

If so- how do we make amends when we are exhausted???

I guess my question is - can we ask him why? When we see so many doing true evil and profitting, harming and disrespecting others ( and I don’t mean small I had a bad day, need money or am sick things- not that these things aren’t bad, but I mean really evil people. ) I’m not speaking of being overscrupulous either.

How do we handle this and other extraordinary situations?

 

[Gabriel_Serafin]

The happiness may not come to us all in this life, but will in Heaven. We see evidence every day of innocent suffering such as victims of famine and natural disasters. So, we first show God’s goodness by doing all we can to help, to alleviate their suffering. We must first work to show God’s goodness in a world filled with suffering. Our everlasting happiness is not promised until Heaven. How indeed, can we be completely happy if some of the Body of Christ is still suffering?

Again, the purpose of man is to be supremely happy. The only way man can be supremely happy is to be in perfect union with the source of happiness (God). Perfect union with God is enjoyed only by the saints in heaven. The degree of glory in heaven depends upon the degree of love one has lived on earth.