M
mikew262
Guest
The Truth is where you find it. Many have found it in the Catholic Church, many in other places.
BTW, I’m guessing God smiles on Billy Graham and that his place in Heaven is pretty secure.
- Status
BTW, I’m guessing God smiles on Billy Graham and that his place in Heaven is pretty secure.
F
fix
Guest
Well, that is not very specific and one may almost conclude you intend to mean all Church’s are equal. While it is accurate to say other Church’s may have elements of truth it is also accurate to say the CC has the fullness of truth.
B
buffalo
Guest
No! There is only one truth. But one can find partial truths. The Catholic Church alone possesses the “fullness” of truth.
M
mikew262
Guest
Many feel, as Catholics, we are Heretics of the worst sort. Only God knows the truth, and who is right, if any of us are.
I personally think, as Christians, we are all right, at least to a certain degree. We all accept Jesus, and know we must follow him and his teachings to obtain salvation. As a Catholic, I believe the Catholic Church is the most right in it’s interpretation, but I certainly don’t condemn non-catholic Christians. To do otherwise, is wrong IMO.
B
buffalo
Guest
I don’t condemn them either. We must teach the truth of the faith to all who will listen. Many have grown up in their own tradition and through no fault of their own have not seen the light of truth. Their ministers teach anti-Catholicism and protect their way of making a living by keeping the congregation intact.
Most do not even know their own history as to what human founded them and when. They don’t know they protested against the Catholic Church and that all of their ancestors were Catholic. It is a major paradign shift for them. They do not know the Bible they are reading is a gift of the Catholic Church.
C
Crumpy
Guest
The main point about the CCC is pretty interesting and important.
If you look at the history of the CCC, you would see that it was conceived by a synod of bishops who wanted to issue a statement of beliefs. There was a need for this, because there has been a lot of non-Catholic teaching in the Church since Vatican II.
These forums are full of doctrinal issues, and it is surprising that there is not actually a forum for issues that derive from the Catechism itself, because that is “what” those issues are.
Let me 'splain it this way. While some have here said that the CCC is not “infallible”, of course it is not, like the Bible is not “infallible” because only the Pope is “infallible” under certain conditions.
The CCC is supposed to be the basis for all teaching in the Church. It is based, as you can tell from the notes, on the teaching tradition of the Church.
So, anybody “can” disagree with it, but they’d be wrong.
An earlier post suggests that “part” of the CCC is infallibly revealed, but a lot is not. If we want to play games with that, then you can burn the Bible, because I don’t think it literally says anyplace that it is infallible.
Fr. John Corapi put it this way, in his six-part series on Holy Scripture: He was holding the CCC in his left hand, and the Bible in his right hand. He said that if you “didn’t have” the CCC, then you couldn’t have the Bible. The Bible “doesn’t mean anything” (!) without the CCC, to wit, the teaching of the Church.
Therefore, if you follow his logic, if you reject the authority of the CCC, then you undermine the authority of the Bible. See 1Ti 3:15.
(p.s. why would you want to disagree with the CCC and remain in the Church?)
If you look at the history of the CCC, you would see that it was conceived by a synod of bishops who wanted to issue a statement of beliefs. There was a need for this, because there has been a lot of non-Catholic teaching in the Church since Vatican II.
These forums are full of doctrinal issues, and it is surprising that there is not actually a forum for issues that derive from the Catechism itself, because that is “what” those issues are.
Let me 'splain it this way. While some have here said that the CCC is not “infallible”, of course it is not, like the Bible is not “infallible” because only the Pope is “infallible” under certain conditions.
The CCC is supposed to be the basis for all teaching in the Church. It is based, as you can tell from the notes, on the teaching tradition of the Church.
So, anybody “can” disagree with it, but they’d be wrong.
An earlier post suggests that “part” of the CCC is infallibly revealed, but a lot is not. If we want to play games with that, then you can burn the Bible, because I don’t think it literally says anyplace that it is infallible.
Fr. John Corapi put it this way, in his six-part series on Holy Scripture: He was holding the CCC in his left hand, and the Bible in his right hand. He said that if you “didn’t have” the CCC, then you couldn’t have the Bible. The Bible “doesn’t mean anything” (!) without the CCC, to wit, the teaching of the Church.
Therefore, if you follow his logic, if you reject the authority of the CCC, then you undermine the authority of the Bible. See 1Ti 3:15.
(p.s. why would you want to disagree with the CCC and remain in the Church?)
M
mikew262
Guest
If that’s how you want to believe, then that’s fine. However, IMO, to insinuate good and faithful non-Catholic Christians have no chance of salvation unless they join the Catholic Church is wrong.
B
buffalo
Guest
Even though I hope they would, where have I said that they have no salvation.
I repeat again, very slowly, - If you find yourself in heaven it will have been through the Catholic Church.:banghead:
And I am believing what the Church teaches. This is not just my opinion or my personal belief.
M
mikew262
Guest
Obviously, to teach anti-Catholicism is wrong too, not to mention un-Christianlike. IMO, No Christian denomination should bash another.
B
buffalo
Guest
his says it better than I can. Note the areas about where the gifts come from.
NO SALVATION OUTSIDE THE CHURCH
M
mikew262
Guest
You are basing this on your belief that the one true Church is the Catholic Church. You are obviously biased, which you should be, you are Catholic after all. A Protestant does not see it that way. The “Church” to them is the Christian Church which we (some dispute whether us Catholics are Christians at all) all belong too.
BTW, your sarcasm does not add to your argument, and I find it mildly offensive.
B
buffalo
Guest
I apologize for the sarasm. I mean for you to read the statement very slowly so the depth of it sinks in.
Protestants that study the true history will certainly see their errors. Many do and are coming home every day. We see Catholics leave everyday because they do not agree with the Catholic proposition. History affirms the Catholic Church as the one true Church.
F
fix
Guest
Well, they both cannot be right. By that I mean one is right and one is wrong, or both are wrong.
L
Linnyo
Guest
Could it not be that we are all Christians serving God in the way we think is best? God knows what is in our hearts and He knows our intentions so I trust Him completely to look after me and fulfill His Word.
Many Catholics object to the way people judge them but are certain that their judgement of others is correct! I feel disappointed in the people of the Church(not the church itself) when they spend time tearing each others beliefs apart. As long as a person believes in the Bible and does their best to do what God expects from them then it doesn’t matter what all our opinions are.
F
fix
Guest
The problem is opinions are not truth. It is not about tearing down anyone or anything. Can you see that by equating error with truth you do a great disservice to truth? No one here is judging anyone’s culpability before God, we are talking in general terms about important issues. These issues impact our salvation.
I am all for celebrating the things we have in common, but if it stops there and goes no further, then we are not being true to the gospel message.
B
buffalo
Guest
All Christains must search for the fullness of truth and preach it.
M
mikew262
Guest
As a Catholic, you are right. To a non-Catholic Christian, you are not.
M
mikew262
Guest
AMEN!!
B
blessedrosary
Guest
This is actually true… The church teaches that we are saved only through the Church, however, not neccasarily by being “in” the church. Those are two different ideas although the line that seperates them seem vague. As Jesus also said, you can only be saved through me, as Catholics we don’t beleive that he meant you can only be saved by believing in him but if those are saved and do not believe it was still “through” Jesus by his death and resurrection. Remember, the Church teaches that people can be saved through Christ-like works and by serving God as best as they know him. The Catholic church reveals God most intimately to us, becase (catholics believe) the church is infallible. However, if someone has had no oppurtunity to be part of the Church and they still love Jesus or God then God will judge them accordingly.
Btw, to linnyo, I am sorry for my accusations of heresy toward you and i ask humbly for your forgiveness.
F
fix
Guest
No, that is incorrect. It is a true statement. That others do not view it that way does not make it less true.
- Status