Is the Church Leaving Me?

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@Mr_Freeze, please, do not try to talk members of the Church into attending Mass said by a disobedient priestly society. That will just harden the OP in his disdain for the Church.

CCC 2089
"Incredulity is the neglect of revealed truth or the willful refusal to assent to it. “Heresy is the obstinate post-baptismal denial of some truth which must be believed with divine and catholic faith, or it is likewise an obstinate doubt concerning the same; apostasy is the total repudiation of the Christian faith; schism is the refusal of submission to the Roman Pontiff or of communion with the members of the Church subject to him.”

The SSPX refuse to submit to the Holy Father and are not in full communion with the Holy See.

The SSPX are a textbook example of schism.

The SSPX is schismatic.
 
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AJC said:
Clarified? OK, on the altar with the priest 7 other people, including 2 adult females dressed, not kidfing here in angelic white robes as altar servers. Off to the side, abandoning the choir loft is a projectionist, the music ministry, including a wanna be opera singer, in between the wimpy offerings of the OCP Music Hymnal. Ilike to pray before Mass, as I was taught, but can’t for all the Socializing before Mass. yes, I get there early, doesn’t help. It’s like the road show of The Sound of Music. No use complaining to our Bushop, waving his “social justice” banner with rest of the community activists. It would all be great, I guess if it were a mainline Protestant denomination. My only occasional escape is when they have Mass at the nearby hime if an order of nuns. Clear enough?
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I’m dead serious…have you EVER spent any time learning about the saints? Like at all?

The Catholic Church has always been the champion of the social justice movement. Like St. Vincent DePaul. I mean he was a REAL social justice rebel in society. He’d put anything we do today to shame.
 
I’m sure there are good parishes in some areas and those parishioners should be very thankful. I was just thinking about this over the weekend that if a non religious person walked into a Catholic Mass for the first time, they would come away thinking that the absolute, most important and significant thing that happens at Mass is the sign of peace.
 
So…your issues with the current state of affairs are:
  1. Women altar servers. Um, how does this make the Church less holy? Why does this bother you? How do people with vaginas versus penises effect your experience at Mass in any way?
  2. Hymns you don’t like. Yeah…people will always have different taste in music. Find a parish with different hymns or contact the music director and ask if some of your favorites can be worked into rotation. Not a new issues, always has been and always will be how it is.
  3. A woman in the choir who sings badly. Yeah…because back in the day no one ever had a bad singing voice. We were all blessed with perfect pitch until Vatican II. Right.
  4. A projector. I don’t see how this ruins things for you…reading off the front wall versus reading in a missal…paper and ink is not more holy than a projector. And I’m sure back when people were complaining about that newfangled printing press! How much less holy it was than handwritten copies and such.
  5. Social Justice. As others have pointed out, social justice has been a big theme for the whole history of the church, and the big encyclical about it is from the 1800’s. So not sure why all of a sudden you think this is a new issue?
Honestly, when people complain about preaching on social justice issues, what I hear is that they liked it when the priest talked about the sins of other people, that they themselves were not tempted to. Like homosexuality, or abortion, adultery, or whatever. When it turns to issues they might actually deal with, like how to treat the stranger among us (immigration reform), or economic justice, and such all of a sudden they have to pay attention and examine their own conscience or maybe even change their life a bit. Way less comfortable.
 
As for whomever brought up communion on the tongue, I receive on the tongue every week. I started doing this because I invariably have a small baby/toddler in my arms, and I worry she will reach out and try to grab the bread, lol. No one at either parish I attend has had a problem with this.
 
To be fair…the mass before the whole vernacular thing could remain relatively the same when they were said. Indeed, a Mass is just a participation of one Heavenly Mass at different points.

Latin was a “dead” language and didn’t change much like the vernacular which requires constant upgrading to translations. It stayed relatively similar for hundreds of years.

But, my suggestion is to go to a different Mass time. Sometimes this can change things a bit. Or maybe even a different church building.
 
Please refrain from the active practice of detraction, scandal and calumny.
They recognize Pope Francis as the Pope. They practice the faith as it has been traditionally practiced, and refrain from the clever wordsmithing and precise ambiguity so rampant in the church today.

You are incorrect, and incorrect information does more to divide than unite.
I pray that someday the SSPX will be allowed to operate in “full communion” without selling out.

Catholics are allowed to assist at SSPX masses, receive absolution in the sacrament of confession, and get married by SSPX priests. The distinctions between “canonically irregular” and “schismatic” are vast, and I urge you to get the facts correct when attempting to guide a fellow Catholic.

To the OP:
To avoid any mis-labelling by our loving and tolerant brethren, perhaps seek out an SSPV chapel. They started out as SSPX, but somehow are in “full communion” even though they operate almost exactly the same way as the SSPX.
 
It is not detraction to say the truth.

I also find it funny that you accuse me of such, considering the majority of SSPX homilies are screeds railing against the “conciliar Church”.

SSPX is a haven of disobedience… Catholics should stay FAR away from SSPX.

FSSP and ICKSP are the same thing as SSPX, except they practice obedience and are in full communion.
 
@Mr_Freeze

I must reiterate this again: the SSPX is a textbook example of schism, and under no circumstance should a Catholic either attend SSPX services or recommend anyone else to go to the SSPX, until they repent and come back into full communion with the Holy See.

His Eminence Raymond Cardinal Burke agrees that the SSPX is in schism. When asked about their status, he responded:

“[T]he fact of the matter is that the Priestly Society of St. Pius X is in schism since the late Abp. Marcel Lefebvre ordained four bishops without the mandate of the Roman Pontiff. And so it is not legitimate to attend Mass or to receive the sacraments in a church that’s under the direction of the Priestly Society of St. Pius X.”

So Mr. Freeze, are you a greater Ecclesial authority than His Eminence?
 
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A million pieces of advice already, but I would focus 100% of your energy on the Tabernacle; on the Eucharist. Close your eyes and you will not see others’ behavior. Seek the holy words that yet remain in the music. Spend holy hours as you are able. Notice in the scriptures the comments and murmuring of the crowds around our Lord. The naysayers who watched miracles and did not believe.

No difference today. They are fulfilling His prophecy.

However, in my case, attending one of those ‘silly charismatic’ meetings resulted in our priest laying hands on me and praying. In a moment of weakness, I made myself submissive to the Holy Spirit. Everything - everything - changed for the better. On one occasion, Father was praying so fervently that he was dripping sweat, which effectively anointed me. Just saying.

Here’s the tough part: Rather than looking outside, seek first to improve yourself. Your attitude is obvious to your fellow parishioners. YOU are the key, not to “change”, but to improvement, even restoration.
 
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The excommunications were lifted a long time ago. Get your facts straight. His eminence Cardinal Burke offered an opinion.
 
I have never heard any homily that is a screed against the conciliar church. Have you had any direct experience with the SSPX?
 
Irrelevant since nothing has changed since then. That was an olive branch extended by the Vatican to try to draw the SSPX back into full communion. It didn’t work - the SSPX slapped the branch out of the Popes hand.

The Cardinals opinion is not just some laymans opinion. His Eminence is a lawful expounder of the Magisterium of the Church. He expressed the mind of the Church. Also, he made this comment years after the excommunications were lifted.

Again I ask, are you a greater Ecclesial authority than His Eminence?

Here is a scathing but great article written about the SSPX:

https://www.churchmilitant.com/news/article/sspx-schism-turns-heretical
 
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Yes, I have had interactions with SSPX Protesting Catholics and read and listened to their homilies.

I have seen them claim the Ordinary Form of the Roman Rite is demonic.
 
In the interest of my time…I’ll simply copy / paste some info from Wiki…

Separation but not schism[edit]
Apart from the formal declarations by the Catholic Church, Cardinal Darío Castrillón Hoyos, president of the PCED, commented about the status of the SSPX in a 2005 interview that the 1988 consecrations, without a pontifical mandate, created a “situation of separation […] even if it was not a formal schism.”[17] Castrillón Hoyos commented in 2005, about a 2004 meeting between Benedict XVI and Fellay, that it was said at that meeting that, in Castrillón Hoyos words, “It cannot be said in correct, exact, and precise terms that there is a schism. […] They are within the Church. There is only the fact that a full, more perfect communion is lacking […] a fuller communion, because communion does exist.”[18] Castrillón Hoyos commented in 2007, when asked “Does the Indult support ecumenism, ‘ad intra’ (internal)?” Castrillón Hoyos answered that he “reject the term ’ ecumenism ad intra '.” He explained that the SSPX priests and adherents “are not schismatics” since it was Lefebrve who has undertaken an illicit Episcopal consecration and therefore performed a schismatic act. It is for this reason that the Bishops consecrated by him have been suspended and excommunicated. The priests and faithful of the Society have not been excommunicated. They are not heretics. I do, however, share St Jerome’s fear that heresy leads to schism and vice versa. The danger of a schism is big, such as a systematic disobedience vis-à-vis the Holy Father or by a denial of his authority. It is after all a service of charity, so that the Priestly Society gains full communion with the Holy Father by acknowledging the sanctity of the new Mass."[19]

…continued below…
 
2009 declaration of no canonical status and no legitimate ministry[edit]
In 2009, Benedict XVI reaffirmed that: “Until the doctrinal questions are clarified, the Society has no canonical status in the Church, and its ministers – even though they have been freed of the ecclesiastical penalty – do not legitimately exercise any ministry in the Church.”[20] The status of the SSPX was not changed by Benedict XVI in 2009.[1] This has to some extent been superseded with regard to the exercise by SSPX ministers of ministry within the Catholic Church, but not as regards the canonical status of the Society as viewed by the Holy See.

Faculties granted by the Holy See to SSPX ministers for confessions[edit]
On 20 November 2016, Pope Francis personally extended for priests of the Society, until further provisions are made, the faculty by which “those faithful who, for various reasons, attend churches officiated by the priests of the Priestly Fraternity of Saint Pius X, can validly and licitly receive the sacramental absolution of their sins”, a faculty he had already granted for the duration of the 2015-16 Jubilee Year.[21] Confession, along with marriage, requires the granting of the required faculty for validity: “The valid absolution of sins requires that the minister have, in addition to the power of orders, the faculty of exercising it for the faithful to whom he imparts absolution” (Code of Canon Law 966.1).[22]

Faculties granted by local ordinaries to SSPX ministers for marriages[edit]
In a document from the Congregation of the Doctrine of the Faith, published on 4 April 2017, local ordinaries are authorized to grant SSPX priests faculties to validly assist at marriages.

For validity of marriage, marital consent must be declared “before the local ordinary, pastor, or a priest or deacon delegated by either of them” (Canon 1108).[23] This priest, deacon or lay person (see can. 1112) is called the one who “assists” (is present). The one who assists is necessary in all cases except when one who is described as “competent to assist” cannot be found and either of these situations apply: “danger of death; [or] outside the danger of death provided that it is prudently foreseen that the situation will continue for a month”. In that case, the parties may exchange consent before witnesses alone (Can. 1116.1).

…continued below…
 
For any priest, other than the pastor (parish priest) or local ordinary of the parties, to be “competent to assist”, he must receive the faculty from the parties’ pastor or local ordinary. The 2017 letter from the Congregation of the Doctrine of the Faith specifically grants local ordinaries (not the pastors) permission, in some circumstances, to delegate SSPX priests to assist at the celebration of marriages of faithful who follow the pastoral activity of the Society. Insofar as possible, the local ordinary is to delegate a priest of his diocese (or at least “a fully regular priest”) to receive the consent of the parties during the marriage rite, which is then followed by Mass celebrated perhaps by a priest of the Society. If this is not possible and “if there are no priests in the Diocese able to receive the consent of the parties, the Ordinary may grant the necessary faculties to the priest of the Society who is also to celebrate the Holy Mass”.[24]
 
Well, that can be taken with the same grain of salt that I have to swallow when I hear NO priests say that Martin Luther King was a prophet, Pope JPII kissing a koran, Clown masses, squirt gun holy water, Superhero vestments, etc, etc, etc…
 
1st - this is not not all parishes and not all dioceses.

2nd - unfortunately, it is your generation (the Baby Boomers) who are making all of these changes. The Generation X and Millennial priests are far more traditional than the Baby Boomers.

The Church will bounce back, but unfortunately, it might not be until all Baby Boomers are gone.

So my suggestions would be:
  1. if there are many Catholic Parishes in your area, find one that is better and go there
  2. volunteer by joining the liturgical committee at your parish to attempt to steer them back or at least provide another point of view
  3. volunteer to lead som devotionals at your parish
  4. pray for humility… this is something I need to do all the time, because music at mass, refusal to use Form A of the Penitential Act, and refusal to use the Roman Canon drives me crazy, esp on Holy Days.
God Bless and know you are not alone
 
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