Is the Church Leaving Me?

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So by your standards, which apparently they way you are speaking to me, is the correct Catholic Stance approved by the Magesterium, one is to tolerate talking before, during (yes during the consecration,) and after Mass. Why? Well they are fellow Catholics. jfz it is not all about me, it’s about our stance before our creator. The Mass invites us in to the most poignant time in creation, a window to heaven. So I guess chattering et al. is what heaven will be like. God ignored, and our only little goings on predominant?

Your being rather silly in parsing my using “females” as opposed to “women” or “girls” is claptrap political correctness that has entered the Church. It is not misogynistic at all. Are women and girls not females? In the name of all that’s holy, praise God I didn’t call them gals. This is the type of cultural claptrap that has all but destroyed mainline Protestantism and is slowly creeping into Roman Catholicism. Females are women and girls, Males are Men and boys. This despite what you, I presume, were told in college.

As for change, I’ll quote Father George Rutler, “One who marries themselves to this age, soon finds themselves divorced in the next.” So apparently to you, all change, no matter how destructive, should be embraced? Please explain.
 
So it’s the Baby Boomers fault, is it phil?

I was involved in my parish, but they joined us with another parish. The priests, did not like each other, and things fell apart. Then they decided to join us with two other parishes and make us a bilingual parish, which is fine. But, though I speak very little Spanish, I have on occasion attended Spanish only Masses and followed along. But my observation is when we do have a bilingual Mass it is unwieldy and culturally uncomfortable for all involved. I say this having observed that in some bilingual Masses you see very few English speakers and others very few Spanish speakers. Which, granted, to me is proof by the Church ditching Latin it only created more separation. I mean, as a 6 year old, non-Latin speaker I learned, thanks to the nuns and adults to follow along in my missal and picked up Latin to boot. It meant I could go anywhere in the world and follow the Mass. And, at that time, could do that anywhere in the world. But I digress. I did lead devotionals, but the paranoia of the ecclesiastical bureaucrats took hold. I always consulted a priest, but someone in the Diocesan offices decided everything had to be approved and we were stuck with these, just awful, DVDs made out in Nebraska or Minnesota or some such place. You’ll know them by the annoying priest leaning on a fence throughout. Finally, I pray daily for humility. I pray for the Church, I pray for the priests, Bishops, and Pope. Maybe not enough?
 
Yes…there is that as well. Still in effect. Hardly the thing Rome would do for schismatics. Thank You for sharing.
 
You are correct, but I am not opposed to modern hymns, just sentimental, self-centered tunes left over from the Hippie era and I was part of that era. And every Christmas and Easter, you may not know this, Leonard Cohen wrote other songs, besides Hallelujah. That song is now the “in” song.

On EWTN Father George Rutler, a convert, did a beautiful series on Catholic hymns, their history and origins. I recommend it, if only for the hymns Protestants claim as their own.

We had beautiful music ministers in our parish. Mostly young ladies, that sang beautifully. Easy to follow along and inspiring. Then some local politician’s wife retired from her job and pushed them out, We now get to experience her operatic interpretations of songs no one has heard of.

Thanks for my sainted Mother, I grew up with eclectic musical tastes. I love good music ministry, what I don’t love is using Mass as a personal showcase.
 
ktmeyer said:
When it turns to issues they might actually deal with, like how to treat the stranger among us (immigration reform), or economic justice, and such all of a sudden they have to pay attention and examine their own conscience or maybe even change their life a bit. Way less comfortable.
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I think the main problem here is the conflation between prudential judgement and moral responsibility. For abortion and homosexuality, this is pretty clear: one must not engage in, or support, these moral crimes.

For things like helping the stranger or economic justice, this is not so clear. We can agree that helping the stranger and economic justice are important without agreeing as to the best way to go about achieving those goals. When the laity, or worse the clergy, conflates a specific policy (prudential judgement) with the moral itself, we run into problems. Suddenly the policy platform of a secular political party becomes dogma and everyone is allegedly bound, on pain of eternal death, to agree.

So it’s not so simple as ‘people don’t like hearing about their own sins’. The problem os when people are being told they are sinning when in actuality they are expressing prudential judgement on a matter with which the Church allows them to do so. When that is magnified by the Pope and the hierarchy speaking hastily without possessing all the facts or considering the peculiar position they occupy, it only exacerbates the problem.
 
I’d agree if one could go to Mass, glorify God, and especially hear the Gospel.

I am a sinner, who needs God’s correcting and assurance. I am not a sinner who needs to feel comfortable or entertained. Neither being correcting or assuring.

I certainly do remember the good the bad. You apparently never had a nun give you a tug on the ear for being fidgety and talky during Mass. If those dear women were around today children and adults would have black and blue ears.

So tell me, and this is before Vatican II, Masses with almost full attendance (even the 6 AM Mass I walked miles to attend, in all types of weather) be a memory one should not long for again? Reverence during Mass. Quiet before Mass to pray.

If I remember anything “bad” it would be the last 25 years.
 
Yours is one of the few replies to make complete sense. It is a race, isn’t it?
 
Funny you should say that. This diocese is “reaching out to the young.”

By visiting a local tap room once a month and providing a speaker. The thing is, I know some of these speakers and would be interested in hearing what they have to say. But alas, I am not 18 and I am well past 30. So essentially it’s my Bishop separating the generations.

Oh, if your 55+ you can have lunch, which you must pay for, (how do the small Protestant churches do stuff and never have an up front charge or require a donation?) and sit around with a bunch of folks like me and listen to someone tell you about some health issue. How come they don’t offer us beer and good Catholic speakers?
 
A nice cliche’. But not factual. I have had good and bad events in my life, both are still vivid in my memory. I think psychologically we long for the good, we long for God.
 
Well you got it partially right. But all we get in life is 50%.

I will ponder your advice. Thanks for sharing and a thoughtful, non-critical answer.
 
You Reuben don’t know me, anymore than I know you.

Listen up, no one knows better than me that my shortcomings are mine. I blame no one. If I prayed to you daily, rather than my God, you’d know. But you don’t, and I find your finger wagging without thought. Note, I have not left the Church, but I won’t lie and say I have not considering the Orthodox Church.

If I blame anyone, it might be you. You apparently think, well as long as the Mass is valid and one receives the Eucharist, that makes for a proper honoring of God. Really? The focus or centrality of the Mass should not be you, I, or the road show participants on the altar, it should be Christ.
 
I’ve addressed some of your points in other responses, and I am getting tired. Anyway, as concerns “social justice” yes, it has and is part of the Church. My point is that when the emphases was the Gospel of Christ, without prodding the laity, through the Church, did great things. Missions, Hospitals, Colleges, Schools, etc. This all grew out of the Gospel. Charity grew within the laity. That is real Social Justice.

Today, you see the USCCB hitching its wagon to government and the welfare state. That results in forcing people, some of whom are not Catholic, to be charitable, which is not charity. Then when said government tells the Church and its institutions you must go against Church teaching the Bishops sit there bewildered. Why, I don’t know? They, the Bishops, are the ones who pushed for Statism. You tell me.

It all becomes symbolism over substance in the end.
 
It’s the Gospel message.
The church is not in the business of politics. What you see as political is the growing problem of poverty immigration, parental rights, freedom of religion, legalization of abortion, and a host of other social problems that were not the norm eons ago.
All we can do is step up the prayers, and that is not accomplished by leaving the Church.
Adoration may help you be at peace with the world you find yourself in.
Merry Christmas. Christ has come to save us.
 
AJC said:
You are correct, but I am not opposed to modern hymns, just sentimental, self-centered tunes left over from the Hippie era and I was part of that era. And every Christmas and Easter, you may not know this, Leonard Cohen wrote other songs, besides Hallelujah. That song is now the “in” song.

On EWTN Father George Rutler, a convert, did a beautiful series on Catholic hymns, their history and origins. I recommend it, if only for the hymns Protestants claim as their own.

We had beautiful music ministers in our parish. Mostly young ladies, that sang beautifully. Easy to follow along and inspiring. Then some local politician’s wife retired from her job and pushed them out, We now get to experience her operatic interpretations of songs no one has heard of.

Thanks for my sainted Mother, I grew up with eclectic musical tastes. I love good music ministry, what I don’t love is using Mass as a personal showcase.
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This doesn’t sound like an issue of the modern church, this sounds like a parish issue. I mean, chruch politics have been around since the dawn of the church, which sounds like it is the main issue here. But no parish I’ve ever been to has had Hallelujah as a hymn - it’s not even an actual religious song - it’s a love song!!! That’s crazy. Go to a different parish! Seriously, this sounds like a very local issue of church politics.
 
Why wouldn’t Rome make moves to bring them out of their schism?

The SSPX has been obstinate even after repeated attempts have been made to reconcile them.

Literally all they have to do is make a profession of faith and vow obedience to the Holy Father.

But they won’t do that. Disobedience is their specialty, not humility and obedience.
 
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And I still don’t get why female altar servers bug you so much.

The chatting? Yes. Your priest should address it. We recently were having Mass in the parish hall due to renovations in the church, and there were signs up reminding people to treat it as a sacred space, not be chatty, etc.

But again, there are parishes in our modern times that are not like what you are describing. I really think this is local.
 
Because they are not in schism. They are canonically irregular.
And, with that, I’m done. God Bless.
 
We need to remember the Church is the center of worship, not ourselves and our personal preferences.
Same goes for people who want to separate themselves in the SPPX.
Each person desiring full communion professes " I believe and profess all that the holy Catholic Church believes, teaches, and proclaims to be revealed by God."

It doesn’t say anything about church appointments, homilies, altar girls, music, or environment.
The church is a living, breathing organism. It serves the people in the time in which they live.
It’s not a museum.
 
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