Is the Mass Biblical?

[Todd_Easton]

YAQUBOS:

I just want to know if the Mass is a sacrifice.
Did the Sacrifice happen ONCE FOR ALL on the Cross, or not?

In the Old Testament, the Jews were told to make many different kinds of sacrifices. There were sacrifices that involved the killing of animals and there were other sacrifices that didn’t involve the killing or destruction of the object being offered. A wave offering was not killed or destroyed; it was simply waved before the Lord. In this way, the whole tribe of Levi, for instance, was sacrificed to the Lord as a wave offering.

Jesus’ sacrifice on the cross at Calvary was something like the sacrifice of the passover lamb where the lamb was killed and eaten and where its blood placed on their doorposts saved the first-born Israelites from being killed.

At Mass, when the priest repeats the words of Jesus from the Last Supper over the offerings of bread and wine, the bread and wine become the risen and glorified Jesus himself, though the appearance of bread and wine remain. The priest then offers the risen and glorified Jesus to God the Father as a wave offering, saying:
Father, calling to mind the death your Son endured for our salvation, his glorious resurrection and ascension into heaven, and ready to greet him when he comes again, we offer you in thanksgiving this holy and living sacrifice.
Look with favor on your Church’s offering, and see the Victim whose death has reconciled us to yourself.
Grant that we, who are nourished by his body and blood, may be filled with the Holy Spirit, and become one body, one spirit in Christ. (Eucharistic Prayer 3)
At Mass, Jesus is truly offered to God the Father but in an unbloody, non-destructive, wave-offering kind of sacrifice. And when Jesus is waved before the Father, we ask the Father to look at the wounds still present in his glorified hands, feet and side, to remember his once for all bloody sacrifice on the Cross at Calvary, to have mercy on us, to forgive us our sins, to fill us with his Spirit, and to grant us peace. In this way, the sacrifice of the Cross is re-presented at Mass.

 

[Keith_Strohm]

Hey all,

I’m coming late to this discussion, but I thought I’d post something that I wrote for one of my friends who was struggling with the concept of the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass. Some of the difficulty lies in the words ‘symbol’ and ‘represent,’ because their deeper meanings are kind of lost to our modern ears and minds.

Hope this helps:

Christ sacrificed himself on the Cross to heal the rift wrought by man’s sinfulness and re-unite humanity and God. One of the central ocurrences of the Old Testament was the Passover, where the Israelites sacrificed a perfect, unblemished lamb and sprinkled their lintels with the blood. The angel of the Lord passed over the houses whose doorposts were sprinkled with blood, sparing the firstborn males within.

This event pre-figures the sacrifice of Jesus on the Cross–who became the Lamb of God, broken so that all might live. Thus, it was no simple coincidence that Jesus instituted the celebration of the Eucharist during the Passover meal at the Last Supper. “Take and eat” were the words of a command not just given to the apostles, but to all the world, spoken by the one who also said “I am the living bread which came down from heaven: if any man eat of this bread, he shall live for ever: and the bread that I will give is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world.” (John 6:51).

So, if we look at the teachings and life of Jesus, we see His intention to offer His one divine and human body for the life of the world.

Paul writes, however, that "we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once [for all]. (Heb 10:10). The Church affirms that Christ was crucified once. So, if that’s the case, how can the Church claim that the celebration of the Mass is a Sacrifice, let alone a continual one. If Christ was crucified once and for all, how do we partake of that sacrifice again without believing what our Protestant brethren say we believe?

The answer lies in exactly who God is. If God is truly all-powerful and ever-present, if He indeed is infinite in Being, then He transcends everything that He created. Time itself never existed before Creation; it is a by-product of Creation itself, part of the “stuff” that God created. He is not bound by time; He stands outside of it. It is only His creatures that are bound by time. God experiences every moment that ever existed or will exist as “Present.”

So, in a sense (a very real one), Christ’s sacrifice is perpetual;
because it involves God (Jesus), it is outside time. Remember the scripture passage: “Jesus Christ is the same yesterday and today and for ever” (Heb. 13:8). Through the power of the sacrament of the Eucharist, the eternal grace of Christ’s sacrifice is made present in time to His creatures. The Church uses the phrase “Christ’s grace is represented” in the Eucharist. Modern ears and minds will translate that as Christ’s grace being symbolized, as if the bread and wine “stood in” for something that happened a long time ago. However, the word “symbol” comes from the Greek word “symbolon” which literally meant “to bring or throw together.” The “symbol” of the Eucharist brings the very Body and Blood, Soul and Divinity of Christ together with His creatures, intimately binding them together each time the mass is celebrated.

(cont next post)

 

[Keith_Strohm]

(cont from above)

Thus, the sacrifice of the Mass re-presents or makes present the one sacrifice of Christ in time. At the moment of the consecration, Heaven literally touches Earth and we are brought to that Calvary moment when Christ died. Not metaphorically, but in reality. That’s why the Church says in the Catechism:

[Christ], our Lord and God, was once and for all to offer himself to God the Father by his death on the altar of the cross, to accomplish there an everlasting redemption. But because his priesthood was not to end with his death, at the Last Supper “on the night when he was betrayed,” [he wanted] to leave to his beloved spouse the Church a visible sacrifice (as the nature of man demands) by which the bloody sacrifice which he was to accomplish once for all on the cross would be re-presented, its memory perpetuated until the end of the world, and its salutary power be applied to the forgiveness of the sins we daily commit.(1366)

The mass is a living sacrifice because of Christ’s resurrection. Though bodily alive, the power of the sacrament of the Eucharist makes the reality of His one sacrifice present to the world again and again.

Anyway, I hope this helps.

Keith

 

[Church_Militant]

YAQUBOS:

Peace be with you!

Please, tell me once for all: is the Mass a Sacrifice or a representation of the ONCE FOR ALL Sacrifice of the Cross?

In Love,
Yaqubos†

Yaq…You still haven’t read the CCC have ya? Sheesh Bucko…
Answer me this. Was Jesus not the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world? Revelations 13:8 And all that dwell upon the earth adored him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb, which was slain from the beginning of the world.

Then the sacrifice was done long before the world was made…if so then that sacrifice is still present and was present for us all…so thr re-presentation of that sacrifice is not a problem. The fact is that you believe the same thing when you ask someone to accept the sacrifice of Christ and “get saved”. you make that sacrifice “present” in their lives by prayer at that time , do you not?

Yaq, I WAS a Protestant when I left Holy Church for all those years. I KNOW what you believe & what Catholics believe & I KNOW that you come here asking open-ended questions in some well-intentioned effort to “evangelize” us. We appreciate your concern for our souls, but I cannot understand why you aren’t out winning someone who isn’t already a Christian. If (as I suspect) you are anti-Catholic in your efforts…I wonder why you haven’t read the Catechism of the Catholic Church in order to have a clearer idea of what we really believe. It is one of the most concise, and eloquent presentations of what Christians believe. Are you afraid to read our real literature? I bet you are…afraid it will make sense…afraid you might find what I have & have to look your non-Catholic friends & relatives in the eye and tell 'em that the Catholic Church has been right for 2,000 years. Just like I have.

Please read the tracts on this home page before you try to engage us in these discussions. If you’re not willing to do that, then I question whether you are really concerned enough for our souls or with the truth, to dialog w/us. We are not anti-Protestant (though there may be some out there), but our evangelism is directed at non-Christians and in the building up of the faith in our loved ones. There is much much more to real New Testament Christianity than the mere 500 year old tenets of Protestantism. There is such wealth of faith & power in the Catholic faith that I live day to day that I wish desperately you could share it w/ me, but we’ll have to see how the Holy Spirit leads you. I love ya Yaq. You’re kind of a pain in the neck sometimes, but I like talkin’ to ya.
Anyway …there’s my answer…(Good Grief!)

 

[YAQUBOS]

Peace be with you!
Church Militant:

Yaq…You still haven’t read the CCC have ya? Sheesh Bucko…

Answer me this. Was Jesus not the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world? Revelations 13:8 And all that dwell upon the earth adored him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb, which was slain from the beginning of the world.

Then the sacrifice was done long before the world was made…if so then that sacrifice is still present and was present for us all…so thr re-presentation of that sacrifice is not a problem. The fact is that you believe the same thing when you ask someone to accept the sacrifice of Christ and “get saved”. you make that sacrifice “present” in their lives by prayer at that time , do you not?

Yaq, I WAS a Protestant when I left Holy Church for all those years. I KNOW what you believe & what Catholics believe & I KNOW that you come here asking open-ended questions in some well-intentioned effort to “evangelize” us. We appreciate your concern for our souls, but I cannot understand why you aren’t out winning someone who isn’t already a Christian. If (as I suspect) you are anti-Catholic in your efforts…I wonder why you haven’t read the Catechism of the Catholic Church in order to have a clearer idea of what we really believe. It is one of the most concise, and eloquent presentations of what Christians believe. Are you afraid to read our real literature? I bet you are…afraid it will make sense…afraid you might find what I have & have to look your non-Catholic friends & relatives in the eye and tell 'em that the Catholic Church has been right for 2,000 years. Just like I have.

Please read the tracts on this home page before you try to engage us in these discussions. If you’re not willing to do that, then I question whether you are really concerned enough for our souls or with the truth, to dialog w/us. We are not anti-Protestant (though there may be some out there), but our evangelism is directed at non-Christians and in the building up of the faith in our loved ones. There is much much more to real New Testament Christianity than the mere 500 year old tenets of Protestantism. There is such wealth of faith & power in the Catholic faith that I live day to day that I wish desperately you could share it w/ me, but we’ll have to see how the Holy Spirit leads you. I love ya Yaq. You’re kind of a pain in the neck sometimes, but I like talkin’ to ya.
Anyway …there’s my answer…(Good Grief!)

As I am not protestant, so I guess this Yaq is not me, YAQUBOS†

And I guess you are doing a BIG… HUGE supposition when you say:
Church Militant:

I cannot understand why you aren’t out winning someone who isn’t already a Christian.

There are many so called “Christians” who are not Christians… And I don’t want to talk more about the Grace of the Lord to me as if I didn’t receive it for free. It is not a thing to boast if we preach: it’s a divine commandment and a divine grace.

The Lord bless you.

In Love,
Yaqubos†

 

[Church_Militant]

YAQUBOS:

Peace be with you!

What do you mean by re-presentation? Is this the word representation, or it means “presenting again”? Do you mean the Mass is presenting AGAIN the Sacrifice of Jesus Christ.

In Love,
Yaqubos†
BINGO! Now ya get it! Good for you!

 

[Church_Militant]

YAQUBOS:

Peace be with you!

As I am not protestant, so I guess this Yaq is not me, YAQUBOS†

There are many so called “Christians” who are not Christians… And I don’t want to talk more about the Grace of the Lord to me as if I didn’t receive it for free. It is not a thing to boast if we preach: it’s a divine commandment and a divine grace.

The Lord bless you.

In Love,
Yaqubos†

DODGE!

 

[Psalm45_9]

YAQUBOS:

Peace be with you!

Please, tell me once for all: is the Mass a Sacrifice or a representation of the ONCE FOR ALL Sacrifice of the Cross?

In Love,
Yaqubos†

The Mass presents the same sacrifice of the cross again. Sorry I should have clarified. If Golgatha is a sacrfice and the mass presents that same sacrifice, then the mass is a sacrifice.

 

[jimmy]

TylerWS:

Hebrews 9:25-10:18 and specifically Hebrews 9:24-26
These verses seem to contradict the Catholic Church’s teaching concerning the Sacrifice of the Mass. Could someone please explain these verses and how the Catholic Church can keep its doctrine concerning the Eucharist in light of them?

The mass is not a new sacrifice each week. There is one perpetual sacrifice made by Christ but he makes it available to all of us through time. The mass just presents what happened on Calvary hill to each of the members of Christs Church through time.

The Jewish passover did not end when Christ died. Christ was the final and the pure sacrifice to atone for our sins. When they made a sacrifice on the passover they would eat the lamb. That is what is being done at the mass. Every time we go to mass we are participating in the sacrifice Christ made to God. This means that Catholicism is truely the continuation of the faith which God started with Abraham. There was not a new church founded, but the same church which was around when Abraham was around is alive in the Catholic Church.

 

[Fergal]

The Mass and Calvary are the one sacrifice.

 

[MichelleTherese]

The Mass isn’t spelled out in the Bible but the Mass sure takes a lot from the Bible!

Biblical Background of Texts Used during the Mass:
The Entrance Rite:
Sign of the Cross (Matt 28:19; cf. John 14:13-14; Acts 2:21)
Formal Greetings:
A- “The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ…” (2 Cor 13:14)
B- “The grace and peace of God our Father…” (Eph 1:2)
C- “The Lord be with you.” (2 Tim 4:22; cf. Matt 1:23; 28:20)
Lord, Have Mercy (Matt 15:22; 17:15; 20:30-31)
Glory to God (Luke 2:14; cf. Rev 4:11; 5:11-14)
Prayers & Amen (Neh 8:6; Ps 41:13; Rom 16:27; Heb 13:20-21; Rev 7:16)
The Liturgy of the Word:
Alleluia (Psalms 146-150; Rev 19:1-6)
Profession of Faith (Mark 9:24; John 11:27)
The Liturgy of the Eucharist:
Holy, Holy, Holy (Isa 6:3; Rev 4:8);
Blessed is he… (Ps 118:26; Mark 11:10)
Words of Institution (Mark 14:22-24; Matt 26:26-28; Luke 22:19-20; 1Cor 11:23-25)
Memorial Acclamations:
A- “Christ has died, Christ is risen, Christ will come again” (cf. 1 Thess 4:14-15; 1 Cor 15:3-23)
B- “Dying you destroyed our death…” (1 Cor 16:22)
C- “When we eat this bread…” (1 Cor 11:26)
D- “Lord, by your cross and resurrection…” (Luke 4:42)
Lord’s Prayer (Matt 6:9-13; Luke 11:2-4; cf. Mark 14:36; Gal 4:6)
Doxology: “for the kingdom, the power, and the glory…” (after Matt 6:13 only in some biblical manuscripts; cf. Rev 4:11)
Greeting of Peace (John 14:27; 16:33; 20:19-20; 20:26)
Lamb of God (John 1:29, 36; cf. Rev 5:6-13; 22:1-3)
Communion Preparation: “Lord I am not worthy…” (Luke 7:1-10)

---

myweb.lmu.edu/fjust/Bible/Biblical_Mass_Texts.htm

 

[MichelleTherese]

Our salvation is not restricted by time. Christ’s saving grace continues to save souls even though He was crucified 2,000 years ago. The same goes for the Sacrafice of the Mass: the sacrafice of Christ on the cricifiction is not restricted by time. When the bread and wine become Christ’s body and blood at the Mass it is the very same sacrafice that took place 2,000 years ago being perpetuated through time until the end of the world.

It is not a new sacrafice. It is the very same sacrafice that took place on the Cross. God is not boxed in by time like we humans are.

 

[porthos11]

The problem with many who don’t believe in the Mass, like YAQUBOS is that they are thinking within the framework of three-dimensional space and linear time. They cannot percieve that the Paschal event, while taking place in one point in historical time and one geographic location is efficacious for all times and all places.

Such is the concept of liturgical remembrance (Gk anamnesis, Heb zikkaron), which did not start with Christianity, but with the ancient Jews. Anamnesis (commonly translated as “remembrance” or “memorial” loses much of its force in English. Anamnesis (or zikkaron) means “making present” i.e. we not only call to mind (the present-day understanding of memorial), but we become present in those events, and those events are made present to us. Every Passover, the Jews not only recalled the Exodus, they considered themselves present in the actual event.

So it is with us Catholics. At Mass we are in Church. At the same time as ARE standing on Calvary. Not “as if”, not “like”, but in a really, literally ARE on Calvary. At the same time, we are in the heavenly sactuary, wtith the great cloud of witnesses in front of the altar in heaven. Why is this possible? Why can we be in three places at once? Because of anamnesis. Except for us Christians, the Anamnesis is REAL, because the once-for-all Sacrifice of Jesus NEVER ENDS.

Ptoof? 1. Jesus is High Priest. Does anyone that Jesus is still High Priest today? Because if he is the Eternal High Priest, then there has to be an Eternal Sacrifice. No Sacrifice, no Priesthood.

1. There is an altar in heaven (seen AFTER Jesus ascension). Why is there an altar in heaven?

These show that the sacrifice has been offered and continues to be, otherwise, these two symbols have no meaning. So by virtue of anamnesis (zikkaron), Calvary and the heavenly sanctuary are made present, through time and space to us.

 

[Todd_Easton]

No discussion about the Mass being Biblical is complete without mention of the prophecy of Malachi 1:11 and its interpretation by early Christians. Malachi 1:11 says:
For from the rising of the sun to its setting my name is great among the nations, and in every place incense is offered to my name, and a pure offering; for my name is great among the nations, says the LORD of hosts.
Of this passage from Malachi, Justin the Martyr, writing about A.D. 155, said:
"…the Eucharist, the celebration of which our Lord Jesus Christ prescribed, in remembrance of the suffering which He endured on behalf of those who are purified in soul from all iniquity, in order that we may at the same time thank God for having created the world, with all things therein, for the sake of man, and for delivering us from the evil in which we were, and for utterly overthrowing principalities and powers by Him who suffered according to His will. Hence God speaks by the mouth of Malachi, one of the twelve [prophets], as I said before, about the sacrifices at that time presented by you [Jews]: ‘I have no pleasure in you, saith the Lord; and I will not accept your sacrifices at your hands: for, from the rising of the sun unto the going down of the same, My name has been glorified among the Gentiles, and in every place incense is offered to My name, and a pure offering: for My name is great among the Gentiles, saith the Lord: but ye profane it.’ [So] He then speaks of those Gentiles, namely us, who in every place offer sacrifices to Him, i.e., the bread of the Eucharist, and also the cup of the Eucharist, affirming both that we glorify His name, and that you profane [it]. (Justin Martyr, Dialogue with Trypho the Jew, chap. LXI)

And of the Eucharist, Justin Martyr elsewhere said:

And this food is called among us Eukaristia [the Eucharist], of which no one is allowed to partake but the man who believes that the things which we teach are true, and who has been washed with the washing that is for the remission of sins, and unto regeneration, and who is so living as Christ has enjoined. For not as common bread and common drink do we receive these; but in like manner as Jesus Christ our Saviour, having been made flesh by the Word of God, had both flesh and blood for our salvation, so likewise have we been taught that the food which is blessed by the prayer of His word, and from which our blood and flesh by transmutation are nourished, is the flesh and blood of that Jesus who was made flesh. (Justin Martyr, First Apology, chap. LXVI)

 

[KennySe]

Todd,
that is a fantastic passage, in reference to the Holy Mass!
Todd Easton:

. Malachi 1:11 says:

For from the rising of the sun to its setting my name is great among the nations, and in every place incense is offered to my name, and a pure offering; for my name is great among the nations, says the LORD of hosts.
​

Not many offerings in every place

But A pure offering

---

And another passage that is of the Holy Mass is Genesis 22:8.

And Abraham said, My son, God will provide himself a lamb for a burnt offering: so they went both of them together.​

 

[RBushlow]

YAQUBOS:

So can I conclude in brief that the Mass is a SYMBOL of the one Sacrifice that was presented by the One Priest Jesus Christ on the Cross?So, in brief, you are NOT presenting any sacrifice in the Mass, right?

Not quite. You understand of course that God is not bound by the human constraints of time. God transcends time. The Mass is not a symbol. In the Mass we are made present at the one Sacrifice at Calvary.

Let us go now to love and serve the Lord.

 

[kayla]

The “Lamb’s Supper”, the Mass as Heaven on Earth by Scott Hahn reveals a long-lost secret of the Church: the early Christians key to understanding the mysteries of the Mass was the New Testment’s Book of Revelation.
It’s a fantastic read!:yup:
saintjoe.com/p/prod_desc.pl?id=51

 

[YAQUBOS]

Peace be with you!

Now that we know that the Roman Church believes, ACCORDING TO IT’S TRADITIONS, that the Mass is biblical, and that it is THE SAME SACRIFICE as that which historically happened on the cross, so let’s study this more deeply.

The Holy Scripture says about this “ONCE FOR ALL SACRIFICE” ( as you think it is ):

“Therefore whoever eats the bread or drinks the cup of the Lord in an unworthy manner, shall be guilty of the body and the blood of the Lord.
But a man must examine himself, and in so doing he is to eat of the bread and drink of the cup.” ( 1 Corinthians 11:27-28 )

What’s the meaning of “unworthy manner”?

How can someone be worthy of that?

Remember: I am trying to understand what you believe.

In Love,
Yaqubos†

 

[Todd_Easton]

YAQUBOS:

“Therefore whoever eats the bread or drinks the cup of the Lord in an unworthy manner, shall be guilty of the body and the blood of the Lord.
But a man must examine himself, and in so doing he is to eat of the bread and drink of the cup.” ( 1 Corinthians 11:27-28 )

What’s the meaning of “unworthy manner”?

Jesus says something similar in the parable of the wedding feast and the guest who got in without a proper wedding garment in Matt 22:1-14. He also says something similar in Matt 5:23-24:
23So if you are offering your gift at the altar, and there remember that your brother has something against you, 24leave your gift there before the altar and go; first be reconciled to your brother, and then come and offer your gift.
In order to receive Holy Communion in a worthy manner, a Catholic must, by the grace of God, be in what we call “the state of grace.” To be in the state of grace, one must be spiritually alive, i.e., have the indwelling of the Holy Spirit (see Rom 8:9-13). We first receive the indwelling of the Holy Spirit at Baptism (see John 3:5 and Acts 2:38). After Baptism, we remain in the state of grace indefinitely, except if we deliberately commit serious sin, which is also called deadly or mortal sin (see 1 John 5:14-17). In committing mortal sin, we lose the indwelling of the Holy Spirit, fall out of the state of grace, become spiritually dead, hellbound (see Heb 10:24-31 and 1 John 3:4-10).

The normal way for us to be restored to the state of grace after committing a mortal sin is through repentance and the Sacrament of Confession (see 1 John 1:19 and James 5:14-16). In Confession, we confess our sins to God and to a priest, his minister of reconciliation (see 2 Cor 5:13), express our sorrow (contrition) for our sins, our resolve, with the help of God’s grace, not to sin again and our resolve to do penance for our sins. If he believes we are truly sincere, the priest then, by authority he received at his ordination to forgive sins, forgives (absolves) us of our sins in God’s name (see Matt 18:17 and John 20:22-23), and assigns to us a penance. The penance is to help us repair the damage our sins have caused to the community and to help free us from our attachment to sin (see Luke 3:8).

How can someone be worthy of that?

Was anyone worthy to have Jesus die for them in the first place? It’s not about our worthiness but about God’s love for us.

 

[JimG]

Therefore whoever eats the bread or drinks the cup of the Lord in an unworthy manner, shall be guilty of the body and the blood of the Lord.

St. Paul is emphasizing here the real presence of the Lord. If it were not real, that is, only symbolic, one could not be guilty of the body and blood of the Lord by receiving it unworthily.