Is the patriarchy a good thing?

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Women are also strong in the humanities subjects. I never said women are morons.

I think this is an applicable quote:

"Equality is a slogan based on envy. It signifies in the heart of every republican: “Nobody is going to occupy a place higher than I.”

Alexis de Tocqueville
 
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And yet apparently they, because society plays no role in shaping how the genders behave, and women just aren’t very good at those tough subjects.
 
If there is a wage gap, call the ACLU. That problem should have been solved in the 1970s when I first heard about it.
 
Lawrence Summers is not really renowned for his expert opinion in biology.

As far as women not making many scientific discoveries, part of that could possibly be explained by the fact that many women were not allowed to study the sciences until recently, so women who made historical discoveries we’re very much exceptions. And women have made quite a number of discoveries in the STEM fields, particularly recently, I encourage you to look them up.
 
niceatheist said:
Which ignores the fact that for generations women were very often discouraged from even getting involved in these professions. So I ask, can you see the difference between “natural” tendencies, and social pressures?
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Yes i can see it, by the fact that this social pressure no longer exists and engineers are still mostly men.
Also in the times when women coudn’t become engineers, what was the cause of this discrimination according to you? It was not an arbitrary decision. Do you really think that some guys just randomly decided one day that women should be banned from some professions without reasons at all? No, it is because most laws come from custom. So when there is the natural custom for women to remain at home, step by step this custom becomes law, as many other customs did in our society and others. But the problem with that is, when a custom becomes law it sometimes becomes oppressive, because it doesn’t allow exceptions anymore, while a mere custom allows them. And this is what feminist in its origins got right: it is not because in general women prefer to be mothers rather than engineers that we should make a law of it. Because then it becomes oppressive for the few women who actually prefer becoming engineers. However this should not make us think that those unjust laws were based on nothing. There were based on customs and those customs still remain and there are based on nature. Those customs in thewselves are good as long as they don’t become laws.
 
The ACLU was founded by a Communist, but they have done a few good things. On the other hand, they began attacking Nativity displays, for example. However, regarding this problem, I would recommend going to them. I can still hear the feminists from the 1970s: “Equal pay for equal work.” It was the only thing I agreed with them on.
 
Just look at these posts. Don’t you think your views, still held in some quarters, are going to be reflected upon our daughters and sisters?

What would you tell your daughter if she decided she wanted to go into Cosmology or software development?
 
I can also still hear: “Sisters! Throw off the chains of your oppression!”

Did anyone really understand those radicals? They were not interested in problem solving.
 
Would you tell her she was atypical, that her nature was against going into such fields? Would you express the sentiments you and others have presented here?
 
edwest211 said:
I can also still hear: “Sisters! Throw off the chains of your oppression!”

Did anyone really understand those radicals? They were not interested in problem solving.
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How were they any different than the suffragettes that came before them? It was the same sort of protest. Heck, it wasn’t even that much different than some of the Abolitionist in the mid-19th century. Part of protest is to cause offense, to shake people up. American revolutionaries did a lot worse than that.
 
niceatheist said:
Would you tell her she was atypical, that her nature was against going into such fields? Would you express the sentiments you and others have presented here?
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I think that you slightly misundertood me. I don’t think that there is an honest profession that goes against the nature of women or men. What I said is that by nature, the two genders are not generally interested by all the same things. So for example, by nature there are more women than men interested in nursing. But that doesn’t mean that it is against nature for a man to be interested in nursing or for a woman to be interested in science. So no I would not tell my daughter that “her nature is against going into such fields”.
 
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Would you tell her “the two genders are not generally interested by all the same things”?
 
The Second-Wave Feminists are the feminists most people know. They had a radical secular agenda that was based on ego. A lot of bored, wealthy suburban women were behind their rants. Third-Wave Feminism was a non-starter.
 
edwest211 said:
The Second-Wave Feminists are the feminists most people know. They had a radical secular agenda that was based on ego. A lot of bored, wealthy suburban women were behind their rants. Third-Wave Feminism was a non-starter.
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How as there agenda any less radical and secular than the suffragettes?
 
niceatheist said:
How were they any different than the suffragettes that came before them
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Many of those suffragettes, yes, did do a lot of harm. They hurt themselves and they hurt others. They did gain some needed freedoms, such as the vote but also did a lot of harm. On the other side, a lot of those women who were suffragettes would be appalled at the feminism of today.
niceatheist said:
Would you tell her “the two genders are not generally interested by all the same things
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If you are asking if she would tell her daughter that males and females are not generally interested in the same things, I would say “yes”! There is nothing wrong with acknowledging that there are differences between men and women.
 
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niceatheist said:
Would you tell her “the two genders are not generally interested by all the same things”?
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Yes if we are discussing the topic why not. But I would not use that in order to make here want “feminine professions”. I come from a quite intellectual family so I would encourage all my kids to pursue an academic career.
 
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How I wish I had the choice to go into male dominated engineering when I graduated HS in 1970. No career advisor even mentioned it to me! The options I was given were all “female” acceptable professions. As I was very good in math and science, I became a Medical Technologist. It was a good career and I enjoyed it but, Oh! To have had a real choice.

A younger friend that did have the choice told me of all the issues she faced breaking into a male dominated field. The worst was the “good ole boy” attitude. She never had study partners and was never selected to be on teams. She had to be assigned. When entering the job market, she was often not even offered an interview. How has it changed? She is now sought out and even offered higher salaries as companies have realized the advantage of a female perspective. She is amazed at how often men don’t see problems in software design that she spots in minutes…it’s just a different perspective, a differ way that women see things that men don’t. I envy her her talent and career.

So often men don’t realize the barriers they put up to women trying to enter their male dominated professions until the women arrive and point them out.
 
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