Is the patriarchy a good thing?

[niceatheist]

I think what I find most disturbing is that some men either react viscerally to the notion that maybe, just maybe, the attitudes expressed to generations of women about “where they belonged” played a role in where women so often ended up, or just ignore it.

I told my daughters they had the right to be whatever they wanted to be, and that anyone who told them what they should be could be safely ignored. I wanted them to follow their passions and abilities wherever they may lead, and not be pigeonholed by some absurd notion that somehow they were the “weaker sex”.

 

[niceatheist]

Why secretary is still the top job for women

And your point? Do you believe it’s because women aren’t cognitively equipped for anything harder?

 

[edwest211]

My point should be obvious. This is the way things actually are. Any woman anywhere can and should do what she wants in life. I advised my female relatives in this way. What I dislike is the blanket condemnations of men which has been going on since the 1970s. Today, all white males are guilty of something according to a radical few.

 

[niceatheist]

My point should be obvious. This is the way things actually are. Any woman anywhere can and should do what she wants in life. I advised my female relatives in this way. What I dislike is the blanket condemnations of men which has been going on since the 1970s. Today, all white males are guilty of something according to a radical few.

So why post that link? What is the point you’re trying to make?

 

[edwest211]

See the above.

 

[niceatheist]

See the above.

“The way things are” doesn’t strike me as an explanation, more than just simply a shoulder shrug.

Do you think that’s the way things should be, that women should by and large be stuck in the wage and career slow lane?

 

[Pattylt]

My mother also stressed that I could do anything I wanted! I think the problem was that male dominated careers were almost hidden from us and certainly never encouraged. I really had no clue that what engineering entailed and if was possible.

Today, careers are shown and explained so actual choices can be made. I made sure my daughter knew what various careers entailed and PAID! She was leaning towards being a mortician before deciding finally on journalism which I thought was awesome! Either one!

 

[MagdalenaRita]

Today, careers are shown and explained so actual choices can be made

Much of the problem with this is that women who do not want to pursue a career but would rather choose home and family are discouraged from their choice and feel they have to have a career, even if it is not something they desire.

 

[edwest211]

I’m simply pointing out the way things are as a statement of fact with no baggage attached. I find it odd that radical feminists, total strangers, began telling women what to do starting in the 1970s. As if they were saying “Stop making your own plans! Follow us!” And where did that road lead? Shacking up, contraception and abortion as promoted today by the National Organization for Women. These radicals succeeded for a time in destroying dating.

I can’t tell anyone, aside from my relatives, what to do with their lives. I understood that my female relatives may or may or may not accept what I was telling them. Women are not stuck. They can make up their own minds. Sadly, too many are following the crowd. They think they have no other choice.

 

[Pattylt]

I agree that their choice should not be poo pooed but I am glad they are given the information to make their choice!

I delayed college because I was married young and wanted to be home with my children. And I don’t regret the decision and career delay. Anyone condemning my choice got an ear full though back then a stay at home mom was not an abnormal choice.

I do think every woman should get training in some career if at all possible as no one knows what life will throw your way. I was able to avoid any loans for college because I had a plan and saved for it!

 

[blackforest]

There does need to be a better mix in the professions. As a social worker, I welcome men to my female-dominated field because a lot of the young guys I’ve worked with need more positive male role models they can relate to. Ditto teachers. Nurses could use more men because a lot of guys would feel more comfortable discussing men’s health concerns with them; on that same note, it’s a good thing that more women have become doctors as an option for female patients.

I support more women in the sciences because I support more of anybody in the sciences. I’d just hate to think that a cure for cancer or wonderful energy alternative isn’t advancing because somebody has the wrong skin color or genitalia.

 

[Lea101]

You’re pretty much grasping at straws here. Please don’t panic and answer the question.

You can answer any one of the two.

 

[Aquinas11]

You’re pretty much grasping at straws here

I’ve established you contradicted yourself so no

 

[Lea101]

This argument is from Jordan Peterson???

More like he brought it up when talking about where to draw the line between appropriate/inappropriate workplace behaviours. But he barely said anything else and didn’t explain himself. He later said he wasn’t against makeup but he brought it up to start a discussion, but his fans still jumped on that and started using that argument anyway.

I’ve established you contradicted yourself so no

Those two questions weren’t contradictory at all. One was more specific (honed in on a location), one was vague so you can answer when you’re against it.

Your non answers basically just show that either you don’t want to argue for something you don’t really believe in or get told off for using a point that you know has no relevance. Understandable.

 

[blackforest]

That makes sense. It was a weird argument, and I wondered where it came from. It doesn’t sound like Peterson . . .

 

[Aquinas11]

Those two questions weren’t contradictory at all.

Yes because the second question mischaracterized itself as repeating the first question despite them being different questions.

 

[Lea101]

Well technically these people are in a relationship… with Jesus. Jesus is the bridegroom the church is the bride. My point is not that all women need to be mothers but that women need men. And if they aren’t going to get married to a human man, then it will be Jesus. I’m not married yet. However my parents have a traditional marriage. My mom has been a homemaker for many years and she couldn’t be happier

We all need a strong relationship with Jesus. All men and women, including those who are married.

There are career women who are happy, and those who aren’t. That’s probably because those who aren’t usually pursue careers as some sort of validation, which isn’t healthy. Those who are truly happy know that they genuinely didn’t want marriage and kids.

I also know mothers who regret not pursuing their ambitions outside of the family. They expressed they felt really aimless once they got older and had nobody to take care of.

So basically, take the time to reflect and know what you want. Women and men need each other, but not necessarily in the context of a romantic relationship.

IMHO spiritual motherhood is just loving others and the people in our lives toward Christ and the Church

This has been brought up in the past, I know. But why is loving others ‘motherhood’? Isn’t that what Jesus asked of every single human? Male or female? What is the difference between this motherhood and spiritual fatherhood that single men are called to do?

 

[Lea101]

I already said you can answer either question. But you don’t want to, probably for reasons I’ve mentioned. I don’t blame you, it’s an argument Peterson didn’t even believe in. Take care, dude.

 

[Edmundus1581]

We have female Saints and Blesseds who have managed to have both family and career. It’s not an either or situation. Maybe that determination should come from each individual woman, mother or not.

In consultation with her husband, I hope, and respecting her duties to him and the good of the family.

The same would apply to a man making a career change. He can’t just decide on his own that he’d rather be in a different job and then expect his wife and family to deal with it.

This should be stating the obvious but is easily forgotten, and feminism would like the wife to make the decision herself. In Australia, feminism has declared it to be a form of “Domestic Violence” for the husband to impede a wife’s decision to work. Sounds loopy, but these people can get away with the most bizarre things.

I speak from personal experience, where my wife decided to take part time (which became full time) work purely for her own amusement, and against my advice. It undermined myself as the primary breadwinner and the family in many ways. When the family was in distress a few years later I vividly recall one of my young daughters blurting out innocently “Why did mummy have to work?”, referring to suffering she experience when her time at home with mum ended. When our son was less than two years old he woke up every morning imploring “No go Val! No go Val!” referring to the childcare with “Valerie” which would be coming that day. Valerie was excellent, btw, and as good a childcare home one could have - but he wanted to be home with mum, who was just having fun in a part time job.

My ex’s part-time job undermined my own work by having me run around with childcare when I was in a high pressure job as the breadwinner and also cost the family more than it brought in. She insisted she had to have the smartest clothes for work, renewing with every change of season (saying “No one wears that any more”) and cosmetics, and she brought herself cafe lunches and coffee every day (say $20 p/d), while I had always made myself a packed lunch as necessary within our budget. These luxuries plus the childcare cost more than her income. She also became too tired to cook for us, so we spent more on take-away than we should have as a family on tight budget.

 

[Edmundus1581]

(cont)

My ex-wife’s job undermined the family in many ways, one being that her work hours prevented us taking weekends away. Her employer (a retail shop) required her to work work every Saturday (or so she said). I would have readily asked her to give up this job for us to have weekends, but I knew what the answer would be.

The job undermined religion in the home because weekends became hectic, with her recovering from a “hard” week on Sunday, and us catching up on family time. Sunday Mass as a family became optional for when she felt like it - which was rarely. We never said family prayers. Her obstruction of Mass and prayers went back very early in the marriage, but now that she was “working” she had a ready excuse and the arguments ended. And, yes, she was a Catholic, we were married in a Church and she had promised to assist in raising a Catholic family.

Finally, when I had a serious episode of “professional burnout” from my job (diagnosed medically) which resulted in months off work, I told my wife that I couldn’t go back to that job - and her response was immediate and emphatic “YOU HAVE A DUTY TO PROVIDE FOR THESE CHILDREN!!!” (ie. in a high income, high-pressure job which was making me very ill). This would be repeated in another argument over finances. Me, not her, had a moral duty to provide yet our family was supporting her job as much as mine.

All of this aided and abetted by feminism.