Is the time right for a repeal of the 2nd amendment?

[Inisfallen]

Remember your reaction to roadwarrior’s inflaming comment next time you are inferring that NRA members/gun owners “have blood on their hands” or “would rather see kids killed than give up their toys”.

Point me to where I said that.

 

[Inisfallen]

If you really want to target gun violence, you need to get guns out of the hands of young Black and Hispanic gangbangers in major cities. That could be done without any additional laws, but you won’t do that because they’re Democrat voters. It’s not about violence, it’s all politics.

We’ve done a good job here in New York City, which has been run by Democrats (with the exception of Rudy Giuliani) for about a zillion years.

 

[Vonsalza]

Arms. Not nuclear weapons. Your sustain for the constitution is showing.

Jon, if you think the framers were referring only to hand held weapons in the use of the word “arms”, then we can no longer sustain rational dialogue on the topic are your definitions are so obscure as to prevent conversation.

“Arms” doesn’t just mean “guns”, Jon. It’s much more broad. “Weapons” would be more accurate.

The AR-15 is a civilian weapon. To claim otherwise is a distortion.

No sir. It is a semi-automatic M16/M4 - a weapon of war. Period.

Oh, so that’s the measure. Well, since over 99.9999% of AR-15s have killed no one,having been on the market for decades, clearly that makes it low powered.

How on earth do you draw this assinine conclusion? Most nuclear bombs have never killed anyone either, so I guess by this display of your broken logic, they’re low-powered as well?

The rounds determine the power. And there are AR-15s that are small caliber. It is a platform.

Uneducated statement, Jon. 22lr is roughly identical caliber, so it is similarly deadly?

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Absurd, Jon. You’ve no idea what you’re talking about, here.

What evidence do you have that a barrel shroud…

Where did I specifically identify barrel shrouds? More bad logic, Jon.

As soon as we have a guarantee that no one else has the others: not criminals, not law enforcement, not foreigners.

So, again, by your broken logic here, full-autos should be made available to the public?

lol. Murphy’s is not in the constitution.

Neither is any protection for semi-automatic firearms.

 

[Inisfallen]

We are all Americans (except for some leftists who post here and want us to disarm), we are mostly all Catholics, we all love our children and nobody wants another school shooting.

Ah, yes, the old “those on the left aren’t real Americans.”

That’s not true, dishonest, and ignorant.

You don’t get to define who is an American. You don’t get to own “American.” I am no less American than you.

 

[Vonsalza]

I also have single shot bolt action rifles. They’re not much good for varmint shooting. Ever try to hit a feral hog on the run with a bolt action single shot rifle?

Buddy, as a rural Kentuckian that’s hunted his whole life, I’m gonna let you know that if you’re discharging multiple rounds at game that’s on the run, you need to sell every rifle you own.

That’s dangerous. And if you’re hunting game that a .223 would have difficulty reliably dropping in one hit, then you’re an unethical hunter to boot. A lot of states will confiscate your rifles if they think you’re hunting certain game with .223…

 

[Rau]

That does not address the issue. Where the duties of police are defined is not relevant to your claim, and certainly not relevant to the wisdom of enabling a generally free accesss to guns.

 

[JonNC]

Jon, if you think the framers were referring only to hand held weapons in the use of the word “arms”, then we can no longer sustain rational dialogue on the topic are your definitions are so obscure as to prevent conversation.

Then don’t converse with me.

Arms” doesn’t just mean “guns”, Jon. It’s much more broad. “Weapons” would be more accurate.

Arms means arms. The Heller decision is explicit about the meanings and intentions of the framers. Go read Heller.
No one is even calling for the legalization of assault weapons (automatic weapons), much less heavy armaments. It’s a bogus issue.

How on earth do you draw this assinine conclusion? Most nuclear bombs have never killed anyone either, so I guess by this display of your broken logic, they’re low-powered as well?

Based on your idiotic one.

Where did I specifically identify barrel shrouds? More bad logic, Jon.

You’re the one pretending that the hang ones make it more deadly.

 

[Ridgerunner]

So, again, by your broken logic here, full-autos should be made available to the public?

A person can own a fully automatic gun, it’s just more expensive and requires more background checking. People can own some really surprising weapons legally. It’s just not easy.

What always comes up when there is a shooting is the confusion between automatic and semi automatic weapons. The people who want to ban guns first complain about “automatic” or “assault” weapons, but then zero in on semi-automatic once the learn there is a difference.

But since almost all guns now are semi-automatic, it forces an ill-fitting condemnation of “some” semi-automatic weapons because most who oppose guns don’t want to admit they would ban all guns if they could. Some few probably really do think an AR is more dangerous than an AK, however.

 

[Ridgerunner]

Buddy, as a rural Kentuckian that’s hunted his whole life, I’m gonna let you know that if you’re discharging multiple rounds at game that’s on the run, you need to sell every rifle you own.

That’s dangerous. And if you’re hunting game that a .223 would have difficulty reliably dropping in one hit, then you’re an unethical hunter to boot. A lot of states will confiscate your rifles if they think you’re hunting certain game with .223…

I was right to start with. You’re not really a varmint hunter and never have been. For certain you have never hunted feral hogs or coyotes.

 

[Road-Worrier]

Wow. Just wow. :crazy_face:

Check the race of the last several shooters. Plenty of white folks, pal.

If you put every murderer in the past month in a line, considerably more than half would be black or Hispanic males in their late teens to early twenties despite making up about 5% of the population. Stick that in your crazy pipe, pal.

 

[Vonsalza]

The Heller decision is explicit about the meanings and intentions of the framers.

Heller “held, in a 5–4 decision, that the Second Amendment protects an individual’s right to possess a firearm unconnected with service in a militia for traditionally lawful purposes, such as self-defense within the home…”

The second amendment, supreme court decisions, “apostolic”…

Words just mean whatever you want them to, don’t they?

This might be the root of a lot of our communicative differences…

You’re the one pretending that the hang ones make it more deadly.

I’m pretending the rails that you commonly find on them make them more deadly.

I’m not even sure the more expensive ARs can be bought with a plain ole’ shroud… After you get out of bargain-basement territory they all have quad rails.

 

[Vonsalza]

Vonsalza:

So, again, by your broken logic here, full-autos should be made available to the public?

A person can own a fully automatic gun, it’s just more expensive and requires more background checking. People can own some really surprising weapons legally. It’s just not easy.

I know and I think it’s a great system.

A man that has $10K to drop on a legally purchased full-auto isn’t the kind of man that’ll shoot up a school. Too much to lose.

 

[Vonsalza]

Vonsalza:

Buddy, as a rural Kentuckian that’s hunted his whole life, I’m gonna let you know that if you’re discharging multiple rounds at game that’s on the run, you need to sell every rifle you own.

That’s dangerous. And if you’re hunting game that a .223 would have difficulty reliably dropping in one hit, then you’re an unethical hunter to boot. A lot of states will confiscate your rifles if they think you’re hunting certain game with .223…

I was right to start with. You’re not really a varmint hunter and never have been. For certain you have never hunted feral hogs or coyotes.

Whatever you say pal.

I will own to never killing a hog, but they’re just not very common in KY.

Coyotes and varmints, however, are.

Just take this bit of advice - you ever wanna go 5-second-Rambo or use a caliber that’s too small for your game, make sure you’re on private property. Otherwise you might have to explain to Fish and Wildlife that they don’t know anything about hunting either while they pack up your rifles.

 

[Inisfallen]

A man that has $10K to drop on a legally purchased full-auto isn’t the kind of man that’ll shoot up a school. Too much to lose.

Not so fast – let’s not forget Stephen Paddock. As it happens, he didn’t have to drop $10,000 on a fully automatic weapon, because he could just buy a bump stock for a few bucks, but he certainly had the money to buy just about any weapon he wanted.

 

[Vonsalza]

Vonsalza:

Wow. Just wow. :crazy_face:

Check the race of the last several shooters. Plenty of white folks, pal.

If you put every murderer in the past month in a line,

Not worried about murderers right now.

Worried about mass shooters.

 

[Vonsalza]

Vonsalza:

A man that has $10K to drop on a legally purchased full-auto isn’t the kind of man that’ll shoot up a school. Too much to lose.

Not so fast – let’s not forget Stephen Paddock. As it happens, he didn’t have to drop $10,000 on a fully automatic weapon, because he could just buy a bump stock for a few bucks, but he certainly had the money to buy just about any weapon he wanted.

I’ll have to give you that. But the vast majority are a missed paycheck or two from broke - if they even have regular jobs.

 

[SuperLuigi]

And again, Lou, almost all attacks occur when the victim is unsuspecting. Ergo any recourse the victim may have that isn’t immediately available (like all their high-powered weaponry in the gun-safe) fails to solve your problem anyway.

All they needed was their hero public servant to do his job. He didn’t.

That’s why we have #2A. Because the government can’t protect us—that is, when it’s not a direct to threat to us in the first place.

Answered in an earlier post:

Vonsalza:

Don’t get me wrong. I enjoy my guns. But I’m a responsible gun owner. And I don’t kid myself that my owning these things provides me anything more than simple enjoyment.

My assault rifles (and particularly my .308 battle rifles) are too much power to give to a psychopath.

Then don’t give your guns to a psychopath.

 

[Theo520]

Uneducated statement, Jon. 22lr is roughly identical caliber, so it is similarly deadly?

I think the 22lr is one of the most lethal rounds there is according to FBI statistics on shootings and mortality.
The guns are easy to conceal and it’s highly accurate, likely due to the very low recoil.

 

[AlNg]

But the laws against murder are most assuredly going to be enforced upon Mr. Nikolas Cruz.

I would not count on it. His lawyers claim that he was afflicted with autism and as well was a victim of medical neglect, diminished mental capacity and inadequate supervision all of which lessen his responsibility. I don’t buy that of course, but it is not impossible that there will be an American judge somewhere along the appeal process who will agree with the claims of his lawyers.

 

[Inisfallen]

I would not count on it. His lawyers claim that he was afflicted with autism and as well was a victim of medical neglect, diminished mental capacity and inadequate supervision all of which lessen his responsibility. I don’t buy that of course, but it is not impossible that there will be an American judge somewhere along the appeal process who will agree with the claims of his lawyers.

All of that might be true. Or it might now. Too soon to judge, in my opinion.

But, whether or not he is found competent to stand trial, I’m pretty sure he’ll never see the outside of a maximum security facility again in his life. Which may not be long, if’s he’s found competent, found guilty and sentenced to death.