Is the time right for a repeal of the 2nd amendment?

[MidwestGuy]

I understand, but truly, when every hillbilly bar in the country has better security than the local school, our thought processes are messed up, and we need to start considering the obvious.

Our politicians are better protected than the local schools…

 

[upant]

The specific focus at the moment is to prevent ONE particular form of gun violence - the mass shooting of innocent people in public places by angry white men.

because 17 people are more important than the 70 homicides and 309 people shot in chiraq since 1/1/18

how many of the chiraq citizens are innocent people just out in public.

the left doesn’t want gun control just AR-15 control

“You never let a serious crisis go to waste. And what I mean by that it’s an opportunity to do things you think you could not do before.” - Rahm Emanuel

 

[Sy_Noe]

And Chicago is near Indiana and WI and CA is near NV and AZ.

 

[Lev]

Sy_Noe:

The idea though that a citizen militia today could rise up against a government loaded with tanks and bombs and nuclear and all the other firepower at a government’s disposal in the 21st century doesn’t make much sense to me.

Sometimes the government one may need to face off against could be local or state. Also, I honestly fear that an Australia style ban would trigger the “they’re coming for us” fear that an unknown number of people apparently have. It’d be Waco many times over

“Sometimes the government one may need to face off against could be local or state.”

The Oregon militia tried that and demonstrated how ineffective this justification really is. For a militia to have any real power it has to have massive ground level support of every other civilian to be able to fight off the government.

“Also, I honestly fear that an Australia style ban would trigger the “they’re coming for us” fear that an unknown number of people apparently have.”

You are ignoring the power of peace that is central to the ‘mentality’ of Christ in society. War mongering is not conducive to Christian society. The Australian experience is one that demonstrates that adopting weaponless neighborhoods promotes a sense of security by default. Crime was certainly not eliminated completely by gun control but it refocused solutions on non violent means like legal recourse.

 

[Luke6_37]

Now you’re making more sense. However, I didn’t say “ban assault weapons” I said we should ban “military type assault rifles” in particular.

Indeed. It appears based on the best research available, that an assault weapons ban would generally be ineffective. Most studies indicate that mass shootings are the result of several factors:

Easy access to Guns With Huge Killing Capacity

Ineffectiveness of Poorly Funded Mental Health Programs

Stresses of a Declining Economy

Possible Connection to Media Violence

This is an interesting list. However, I think it is safe to say that if you entered all four factors into a regression analysis, #1 would be the only factor that significantly predicts whether a mass shooting will take place. This is because the overwhelming majority of crazy poor people who are exposed to media violence do not even commit crimes.

What your list leaves out are four other factors that are necessary to understanding the problem. These are in order of importance: male, angry, young and white - all of which point to a social problem known as “toxic masculinity”. Toxic masculinity is the notion that in order to be a man you must be potent in society (i.e., have power, influence, or effect). Given the profile of most mass shooters in the United States, you can see how that would be a motivating factor for going out and buying a gun with a huge killing capacity.

Now, there are certainly other factors in addition to 1) toxic masculinity and 2) easy access to macho killing machines that may predict whether a young man will go down to his former high school and start shooting teenagers. I just don’t think addressing them for the sole purpose of stopping this particular crime is worth the effort. From a public policy perspective, the direct approach that targets the largest predictive factors is what you want to do, because it is the most effective. It gives you the most “bang for your buck” to use a pun.

The problem is that the NRA doesn’t want to hear about it.

 

[Luke6_37]

Luke6_37:

The specific focus at the moment is to prevent ONE particular form of gun violence - the mass shooting of innocent people in public places by angry white men.

because 17 people are more important than the 70 homicides and 309 people shot in chiraq since 1/1/18

how many of the chiraq citizens are innocent people just out in public.

the left doesn’t want gun control just AR-15 control

“You never let a serious crisis go to waste. And what I mean by that it’s an opportunity to do things you think you could not do before.” - Rahm Emanuel

No - it’s because mass shootings are actually easy to understand and prevent.

 

[Luke6_37]

No - you just need to take away their guns. However, your response proves my point about the NRA.

 

[lmachine]

is the time right?

It becomes more feasible as time goes on. The adults of this country have decided it’s okay for children to be slaughtered in classrooms, and unsurprisingly children aren’t too happy about it. About 150,000 schoolchildren have lived through school shootings, and as the blood continues to spill that number will continue to grow. The reaction from the high school kids in Florida is indicative of where we’re headed: children who literally were not yet born when the Columbine shooting happened are not going to continue to stand for this.

We know that young people’s opinions of guns are much more negative than older people. The older have the power now, but within the next few decades there will be significant modifications if not outright appeal of the 2nd Amendment.

The most stringent gun laws in America are in Chicago and California. Both of them also have some of the highest rates of gun violence.

Unsurprisingly when neighboring states have lax gun laws it’s easy to get guns in places they’re restricted. We need national regulations.

On the flip side, Mississippi is one of the easier states to get firearms and there is very low gun violence

Mississippi is seventh-highest out of 51 (including DC) in gun murder rate. If you factor in suicides and other gun deaths it jumps to fourth-highest in the nation. Mississippi’s guns are not helping its people.

Arm the teachers

Remember teachers, we already pay you little, despise your efforts to organize for higher pay, and expect you to be bullet sponges to protect our children. Now we want you to shoot back (I wonder how many teachers with guns will be shot by police who think they’re the original shooter).

Even banning ownership or possession for people convicted of domestic violence is, in my opinion, too wide a loop because those are filed in nearly every divorce nowadays to get early advantage, and the judges enter them almost without fail because wrongfully entering them bears no reputation hazard while denying them might.

What an absolutely horrifying thing to suggest.

 

[Luke6_37]

non sequitur. I have nothing to do with and no affiliation nor love for the NRA
[/quote]

Yet you will not even consider the evidence that is right before your eyes. Many social problems (e.g., pornography) are highly gender specific. Only leftist feminists say there is no difference between men and women.

 

[MidwestGuy]

Remember teachers, we already pay you little, despise your efforts to organize for higher pay, and expect you to be bullet sponges to protect our children. Now we want you to shoot back (I wonder how many teachers with guns will be shot by police who think they’re the original shooter).

Not sure if you know any teachers or not, but it doesn’t sound like it.

 

[Ridgerunner]

I said we should ban “military type assault rifles” in particular.

Good. That would allow me to keep an AR-15.

#1 would be the only factor that significantly predicts whether a mass shooting will take place.

Possibly the most preposterous statement today. If this were true, there would be mass shootings all over the country on a continuous basis. And it would not have any predictive value at all for any other form of mass killing.

What your list leaves out are four other factors that are necessary to understanding the problem. These are in order of importance: male, angry, young and white - all of which point to a social problem known as “toxic masculinity”.

How are we to understand the many more shootings by young black males in our society? Do they not have “toxic masculinity”, or is theirs a special kind of toxicity not shared by white males? And, of course, there are greatly more murders in Mexico than in the U.S., so is there a third kind of “toxic masculinity” to explain it?

 

[lmachine]

Not sure if you know any teachers or not, but it doesn’t sound like it.

I actually know quite a few which is why I parroted their response to the suggestion that teachers be armed.

 

[MidwestGuy]

I actually know quite a few which is why I parroted their response to the suggestion the teachers be armed.

I guess teachers in your neck of the woods have different opinions on this than the ones around here.

 

[Ridgerunner]

What an absolutely horrifying thing to suggest.

Judges will tell you that. They figure it’s the safest way to proceed. Think about it for a moment. If a judge enters a protective order against an alleged assailant, there’s no downside. The “perp” simply has to stay away from the complainant, and no harm is done because the alleged perp has no business messing with the complainant anyway. On the other hand, if the judge fails to enter a protective order and the alleged perp seriously harms or kills the complainant, the judge looks very bad.

 

[Lev]

The most stringent gun laws in America are in Chicago and California. Both of them also have some of the highest rates of gun violence. On the flip side, Mississippi is one of the easier states to get firearms and there is very low gun violence

The experience of gun control countries is that it takes a two pronged measure. Restriction and conviction. The consequences of illegal possession needs to be severe. You can smell a rat when everytime gun control states try to implement the legal redress, SCOTUS comes in and overturns it. Almost like the Supreme Court wants gun control to fail mmmmm. :crazy_face:

 

[ajg]

By your logic of make it illegal to solve the issue, then drugs should not be a problem. Meth is illegal; therefore, no one has access

@Luke6_37

I see you decided not to respond to this portion. Out of the mass shootings and other firearm related crimes, how many of those firearms are illegal? How many of the firearms are stolen? How many were actually purchased by the person committing the crime?

 

[Ridgerunner]

One problem in guarding schools will be the way they’re designed and operated. The school in question was, I understand it, spread over 40 acres or so, and had some 3,000 students in multiple buildings.

In some places, the “old style” schools still exist. Oftentimes multiple story, they had just a few entrances and school districts were formed in such a way that none of them had a huge student population on a single campus.

 

[Ridgerunner]

The experience of gun control countries is that it takes a two pronged measure. Restriction and conviction. The consequences of illegal possession needs to be severe. You can smell a rat when everytime gun control states try to implement the legal redress, SCOTUS comes in and overturns it. Almost like the Supreme Court wants gun control to fail mmmmm

That was Rahm Emanuel’s complaint. He complained that, despite Chicago’s stringent gun laws, judges wouldn’t enforce them. And he cited numbers that pretty well supported that conclusion.

So I don’t know that we need to blame the Supreme Court for lax enforcement if local judges won’t punish people who commit gun crimes.

 

[Lev]

If you can envisage a 1000 mile long border wall you can surely envisage walls around vulnerable schools?

 

[Luke6_37]

Luke6_37:

I said we should ban “military type assault rifles” in particular.

Good. That would allow me to keep an AR-15.

Nope, the AR-15 is the first to go - unless you are willing to paint it pink.

Luke6_37:

#1 would be the only factor that significantly predicts whether a mass shooting will take place.

Possibly the most preposterous statement today. If this were true, there would be mass shootings all over the country on a continuous basis. And it would not have any predictive value at all for any other form of mass killing.

That’s what the NRA would like you to believe.

I predict that if you ran a regression analysis, you probably would not find a direct effect for either “toxic masculinity” or “access to macho looking killing machines”, but rather the entire relationship would be in the interaction between the two. Specifically, you’d find that “access macho looking killing machines” fully mediated the relationship between toxic masculinity and mass shootings.

That is why eliminating access is so critical.

Luke6_37:

What your list leaves out are four other factors that are necessary to understanding the problem. These are in order of importance: male, angry, young and white - all of which point to a social problem known as “toxic masculinity”.

How are we to understand the many more shootings by young black males in our society? Do they not have “toxic masculinity”, or is theirs a special kind of toxicity not shared by white males? And, of course, there are greatly more murders in Mexico than in the U.S., so is there a third kind of “toxic masculinity” to explain it?

Neither of these groups (young black male or Mexicans) fit the profile of the typical perpetrator of mass shootings in the United States. If you want to solve a particular social problem, it is important not to muddy the waters and try to come up with a one-size-fits-all solution. Yes, different social problems exist that need to be addressed (e.g., violence among young black males), but the etiology and therefore solution to each is different.

Solving the problem of mass shootings in the United States is easy, because there are only two factors to consider and the easiest one to change is “access macho looking killing machines”.