Is there divorce in the Bible?

[TimOliv]

Tim. You may not want to believe it, but the book of Deu. IS scripture. As is the Numbers and Eziekel.

I never said it was not scripture. However, a lot of things appear in scripture. A lot of things were done during this time. There tolerance or mention of them does not indicate that they were blessed by God. Indeed Leviticus also says that a king shall not have excessive wives.

Scripture, however, supports monogamous relationships (Adam and Eve). This is not to say that cultural climate at the time did not tolerate polygamy (as with Abraham).

However, much like divorce, there is mention of it as if it is already employed. Did you notice not one of your sources comes out and says “Marriage lasts for life or until divorce?”

Did you notice nothing you posted supports the beginning of Divorce simply its existence during that time?

The concept of contracting a marriage (through a ketubah) is Rabbinical not scriptural. Let me show you what I mean.

We are all familiar with the story of Jacob? He intends to marry Rachel, during the wedding feast, he is intoxicated and Laban slips Leah into his tent. Now he is married to Leah. Whoa! This should just be adultery not marriage, right? There existed no contract. The concept of a ketubah is a Rabbinical innovation. Likewise, the idea of canceling out that contract (via a “get”) is a Rabbinical innovation. There can be no Scriptural support that establishes a Divorce simply because:

1. They existed before scripture was written down
2. God never said (to the best of my knowledge) Divorce is OK, have fun.

So are there scriptural references to divorce? Sure, but you still haven’t shown scriptural support. No one asked you to prove that there WAS divorce, but that divorce could be justified using scripture.

 

[Valke2]

I) Divorce is OK, have fun.

So are there scriptural references to divorce? Sure, but you still haven’t shown scriptural support. No one asked you to prove that there WAS divorce, but that divorce could be justified using scripture.

Well, at least we are now agreeing that there is actually scriptual reference to divorce. If GOd provides instructions on how to divorce, when to divorce and who can remarry after a divorce, then that is enough scriptual support for saying it is permissible to divorce.

 

[Valke2]

By the way are we allowed to put on a garment woven with two different kinds of thread, which was forbidden in Levitcus 19:19, or is that still binding? Is that as authoritive as the ten commandments?

Yes.

But that wasn’t what the origional question was about. It simply asked is there anything in the bible that says it is ok to divorce.

 

[Valke2]

Does the Old Testament ever allow a divorced person to remarry? I didn’t see this explicitly at all in the passages you mentioned.

Yes. It only prevents certain classes of people from marrying a divorced women. Mostly the priests.

 

[runandsew]

Yes.

But that wasn’t what the origional question was about. It simply asked is there anything in the bible that says it is ok to divorce.

It does say that divorce was allowed.
But it is not what God desires.

 

[Valke2]

I never said it was not scripture.

You said, after explaining the difference betwee written and oral law, that the Jewish law of divorce is from oral law, or the rabbis. BUt that is not correct, in that it is expressly stated in the written Torah.

However, a lot of things appear in scripture. A lot of things were done during this time. There tolerance or mention of them does not indicate that they were blessed by God.

Divorce is clearly permissible in the written Torah, and not condemed by God.

Did you notice nothing you posted supports the beginning of Divorce simply its existence during that time?

The fact that divorce existed prior to the Torah being given to Israel is not material to this discussion. The Torah clearly sets forth the method of and means of obtaining a divorce.

There can be no Scriptural support that establishes a Divorce simply because:

1. They existed before scripture was written down
2. God never said (to the best of my knowledge) Divorce is OK, have fun.

Again, you can only say this by ignoring theh express language of Chapter 24 in the book of Deu.

[QUTOE]So are there scriptural references to divorce? Sure, but you still haven’t shown scriptural support. No one asked you to prove that there WAS divorce, but that divorce could be justified using scripture.

Again, The scripture that I quoted ABSOLUTELY justified divorce. You reasoning only makes sense if you ignore the express language in the Torah.

 

[runandsew]

In the passages in Matthew 19:1-12 when Jesus is asked about can anyone divorce for any reason, The Pharisees are really not interested in his opinion to settle a dispute, they are trying to set a trap for him.
This passage takes place in “the district of Judea across the Jordan". That is where John the Baptist was preaching and was arrested by King Herod, and later beheaded for telling the King that he sinned by forcing his brother to divorce his wife so Herod could marry her. They are trying to get Jesus to say that you cannot divorce for any reason, so they could inform Herod, and then Jesus would also be arrested.
And Jesus sidesteps this trap with his words, “Have you not read” very cutting words to the Pharisees, and then goes on to teach about what the bible says about divorce.

Jesus is not telling people that they can divorce and remarry in a case of adultery in this passage, because the response of his disciples is, “If that is the case of a man with his wife, it is better not to marry.”
That seems pretty strong if you were allowed to remarry.

He is telling them that in the case of Adultery, they can divorce, but they can’t remarry

 

[TimOliv]

You said, after explaining the difference betwee written and oral law, that the Jewish law of divorce is from oral law, or the rabbis. BUt that is not correct, in that it is expressly stated in the written Torah.

Divorce is clearly permissible in the written Torah, and not condemed by God.

The fact that divorce existed prior to the Torah being given to Israel is not material to this discussion. The Torah clearly sets forth the method of and means of obtaining a divorce.

Again, you can only say this by ignoring theh express language of Chapter 24 in the book of Deu.

[QUTOE]So are there scriptural references to divorce? Sure, but you still haven’t shown scriptural support. No one asked you to prove that there WAS divorce, but that divorce could be justified using scripture.

Again, The scripture that I quoted ABSOLUTELY justified divorce. You reasoning only makes sense if you ignore the express language in the Torah.

And your reasoning only makes sense if you believe that God changed his mind.

 

[Valke2]

Again, The scripture that I quoted ABSOLUTELY justified divorce. You reasoning only makes sense if you ignore the express language in the Torah.

And your reasoning only makes sense if you believe that God changed his mind.

How so?

 

[Ma.Eugenia]

Hello everyone!

Interesting replies.

I haven’t been adding my 2-cents to this thread lately because I am not an Apologist ----so, I leave it to the experts so I can learn.

Anyway, I am grateful that you are answering my post because I am learning.

Regarding this:
Originally Posted by Valke2

Divorce is clearly permissible in the written Torah, and not condemed by God.

Valke2, thank you for giving your (name removed by moderator)ut in this thread. Its very welcome, and interesting, as all the others’ reply.

I did ask where in the bible, and you are right, its found where you said it.

Its in the Old Testament scripture, which is part of our Bible. For me, as a Christian, emphasis is given more to the New Testament as it contains the teachings of Christ.

The OT forms an important overview of the culture
and history of the Israelites at the time of Jesus,

We get a perspective on what the beliefs, customs and traditions of the Israelite people that affected how Jesus lived and at the same time, how it affected his teachings.

As a Christian, we believe Jesus had clarified the teaching on divorce and believe in the indissolubility of a valid marriage. That is why, I think, the priest says during a marriage ceremony:
“What God has joined together, let no man put assunder.”

It was funny that the actress, who is Christian, would say what she said.

I agree with what KnightforChrist said:

Originally posted by KnightforChrist:

They are selectively reading…They are failing to acknowledge the teachings of Christ due to selective reasoning or reading in many cases.

 

[TimOliv]

You said, after explaining the difference betwee written and oral law, that the Jewish law of divorce is from oral law, or the rabbis. BUt that is not correct, in that it is expressly stated in the written Torah.

Of course it is correct, unless you can provide me a quote from scripture that ESTABLISHES Divorce.

Divorce was ESTABLISHED by the Rabbis, and you have shown nothing to counter that. You simply showed that Divorce is mentioned in the bible.

I’m sorry, my friend, you are mistaken, I went to college for Jewish Studies, and even your most conservative Rabbi will admit that Divorce is a Rabbinical invention.

 

[Valke2]

Of course it is correct, unless you can provide me a quote from scripture that ESTABLISHES Divorce.

Divorce was ESTABLISHED by the Rabbis, and you have shown nothing to counter that. You simply showed that Divorce is mentioned in the bible.

I’m sorry, my friend, you are mistaken, I went to college for Jewish Studies, and even your most conservative Rabbi will admit that Divorce is a Rabbinical invention.

I did provide you with a quote. And you are wrong when you say that any Rabbi will say Divorce is based on rabbinical law. It is true that things like what is contained in a get are rabbinical laws. But the process of divorce is clearly spelled out in thewrotten Torah.

"A man takes a wife an possesses her. She fails to please him because he finds something obnoxious about her, he writes her a bill of divorcement, hands it to her, and sends her away from from his house; Deuteronomy 24:1.

Yes, divorce obviously existed before Torah was received or written. And just as obviously it is from Torah that Jewish law permits divorce. THe details may very well be rabbinic in origin. The act of divorce is based on Torah law…

I’m sure you learned many interesting things at your school for Judaism.

 

[Ma.Eugenia]

Divorce was ESTABLISHED by the Rabbis, and you have shown nothing to counter that. You simply showed that Divorce is mentioned in the bible.

Hello TimOliv!

Thank you for you thought-provoking contributions to my post.

Regarding what you said here:

Divorce was ESTABLISHED by the Rabbis, and you have shown nothing to counter that. You simply showed that Divorce is mentioned in the bible.

I am a bit confused. What do you mean by divorce was established by the rabbis and was (merely) mentioned in the Bible (OT)? Is there a difference between establishing and mentioning?

Would you please help clarify this for me?

 

[Valke2]

Also, since the Torah preceeded the Rabbis, how can you say that divorce existed before the Torah was written but that it was established by the rabbis??

Also, we should discuss Isaiah Chapter 50, in which God Himself discusses divorce:

So said the Lord, "Where is your mother’s bill of divorce that I sent her away? Or, who is it of My creditors to whom I sold you? Behold for your iniquities you were sold, and for your transgressions your mother was sent away.

 

[TimOliv]

Also, since the Torah preceeded the Rabbis, how can you say that divorce existed before the Torah was written but that it was established by the rabbis??

Also, we should discuss Isaiah Chapter 50, in which God Himself discusses divorce:

So said the Lord, "Where is your mother’s bill of divorce that I sent her away? Or, who is it of My creditors to whom I sold you? Behold for your iniquities you were sold, and for your transgressions your mother was sent away.

I find your question puzzling at best. You say that the Torah is preceded the Rabbis. While this is true, it also went quite a long time (and through an exile or two) without being in written form.

Also, you still have yet to indicate why you feel God changed his mind about Divorce. You persist that divorce is perfectly acceptable in the OT but we all know it is clearly condemned later by Jesus.

However, I will address your quotations first.

First, let’s deal with Deuteronomy. Your contention (unless I’m misreading) is that since the Torah existed before the Rabbis, the Rabbis added no editorial, and the form we have is exactly as it should be.

However, I doubt Moses would have recorded his own death as he would have had to do in Deuteronomy.

Of course, you are also discussing a book that says people who practice other religions and men who disobey their parents should be put to death…

Now, as with Isaiah. Did you just look through a bible for the word “divorce” and decide to quote whatever you found? The reference to divorce is clearly meant to illustrate “casting your mother out of the house” as a husband would upon divorcing his wife.

This is not an endorsement for divorce by God. Rather, it is a prophesy by Isaiah who would have been influenced by his culture which permitted divorce.

Divine inspiration is one thing, but that doesn’t mean that something doesn’t get slightly altered in the translation. I’d say thats one of the reasons why we have two infancy narratives.

 

[Valke2]

I find your question puzzling at best. You say that the Torah is preceded the Rabbis. While this is true, it also went quite a long time (and through an exile or two) without being in written form.

Also, you still have yet to indicate why you feel God changed his mind about Divorce. You persist that divorce is perfectly acceptable in the OT but we all know it is clearly condemned later by Jesus.

That is because I don’t feel God changed his mind about divorce. I don’t believe Jesus was God. That was not the issue that we were discussing. We were simply looking for scriptual basis for Divorce.

First, let’s deal with Deuteronomy. Your contention (unless I’m misreading) is that since the Torah existed before the Rabbis, the Rabbis added no editorial, and the form we have is exactly as it should be. /QUOTE}

No. That is not my contention. You contended that the Rabbis established divorce. I only pointed out that since divorce is mentioned in Torah, which proceeded rabbinical authority, that your statement can’t be valid.

Isaiah clearly demonstrates that GOd is not condeming divorce.

 

[Valke2]

Kind of like stoning certain people…It was allowed under the old law, it’s in the bible and was obviously happening during Jesus time until he set forth his challenges and teachings regarding this…

During the time of the Sanhedrin, there were 7 (or less) known cases when the death penalty was actually used over a period of more than 400 years. The Talmud discusses that fact that a Sanhedrin that imposed capital punishment once over a 7 year period was a “bloody” court.

 

[TimOliv]

That is because I don’t feel God changed his mind about divorce. I don’t believe Jesus was God. That was not the issue that we were discussing. We were simply looking for scriptual basis for Divorce.

Isaiah clearly demonstrates that GOd is not condeming divorce.

 

[Valke2]

HOw come no one mentioned Matthew 5:31-32:

It has been said,"Anyone who divorces his wife must giver her a certificate of divorce,’ But I tell you that anyone who divorces his wife, except for marital unfaithfulness. causes her to become an adulteress, and anyone who marries the divorced woman commits adultry.

It seems clear that Jesus advocated divorce under certain circumstances. In this regard, he was restating the miniority opinion of Jewish Law, which had its adherents.

Obviously the Church has taken a stricter position than Jesus did.

 

[Texas_Roofer]

In Matthew 19 (New Testament) divorce is NOT universally denied. In non Catholic Bibles divorce is specifically allowed for adultery. In the Catholic Bibles divorce to the wife is allowed for an unlawful marriage but if the marriage is unlawful for how is there a wife?