Is there hope for me even though I am not Roman Catholic?

[whatisthetruth]

Hi emphaticbigot

Peace brother!
Peace

**Hello there! I am with a little concern about your much desire to be 100% assured of salvation. What i learned from your replies to others here is that you are assured of just one thing, i.e., that you are to die tonight (or just a scenario) but even so with the given scenario you seem to be in a state of uncertainty which in that regard you are seeking 100% of certainty. That is sad. **

Is It sad because possibly you do not understand where my heart is?

We are saved by faith, hope, and love. Therefore, as Catholics we have Faith in Jesus Christ as our savior;

my belief too

we have Hopes in the Holy Spirit that is working in the Church through the Sacraments and the sanctifying graces we receive from them; therefore we Love to live up to what we believe by giving justice to our every relationships (God, others, nature, and self). As you have stated, you are a great sinner (scenario). That means, you have not given justice to all of your relationships, reason enough for you to be fearful of not being saved.

I do feel that I am unworthy because of sin in my life. However God made a provision. I explained in the 3 parter to CalmDownWisWins.

Please review and you will see where I am coming from

You are wanting of salvation, and that is grace from God who wants you to come to Him at the last breath of yours.

It is a wonderful feeling to be at peace with His Promise of salvation to His faithful on thier “deathbed”, howerer, it is not what salvation is all about (again see me 3 parter)

So, all you have to do is ACT upon it! It is only in doing so that you can be assured of SALVATION 100%.

somwhwhat what I beleive, look at my 3 parter…

**Do not put yourself in the position of the thief that was crucified with Jesus. YOU ARE NOT. **

I wasn’t crucified, but I am a sinner just like the thief, arent I?

What is the difference between the thief and myself, take away the cross.

BTW, aren’t we all carrying our cross in our Christian walk with the Lord?

** Rather, put yourself in the loving embrace of God (that has begun by putting you in the state of confusion **about 100% assurance of salvation) in the Sacraments of the Church.

sorry you believe that I am confused.

Seriously, would you look God in the eye and say,

"Truth is confused, there is no way you gave your children an assurance of salvation before they were to die when you said,

." 1John 5:13

My question is (with the given scenario): What prevents you from receiving the Sacraments???

Nothing, I have received all except Holy Orders. I do not believe I would be called to priesthood if I stayed a Catholic.

Are you going to be a priest?

Don’t you believe in the Sacraments???

Of course I do, that is why I received them, stated above.

But if you do, it will definitely gives you salvation.

I agree all have an important part in the salvation process.

**If you truly desire to attain salvation and be assured before you die of becoming saved and you believe that being RECONCILED with God is the only way that saves you then be it so. **

Not only do I desire it, I have the Gift of Eternal Life given to me by God.

I have some good news. You can have assurance too. St Paul says in 1Timothy 1:14,15 says

the grace of our Lord was exceeding abundant with faith and love which is in Christ Jesus. This is a faithful saying

, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief.

Do not seek for answer to your questions if you are not ready to accept the ANSWER.

Good advice I am always up for a challenge.

**Pray that the TRUTH may set you free. **

What makes you believe I am the captive one?

**And that you may be docile enough to accept Him. **

Why do you believe I have not accepted Him?

**Because as I see it, you are not really after truth. **

May, I ask you to **look at Kolbe’s remarks to me **and then come back to me again and try to say that with an honest face.

you are after satisfaction which comes from your restlessness and state of confusion.

I love these judgement calls, keep them coming.

"You cannot conduct yourself when you are in doubt."

Lets rock, I am enjoying this thread.

The faith of all are being tested, including myself.

That’s what i learn from philosophy.

I prefer to learn from God.
If philosphy falls in line with what God tells me then that would be a good thing.

Again, for me…God first then whatever

God Bless bro!

May God bless you too

[/QUOTE]

 

[whatisthetruth]

That’s the humility of St.Paul.

If and when one sets himself above the rest as saved is the moment that he loses assurance of salvation because God detests the proud and arrogant.

Then why did Paul give testimony of the Lords saving grace to Timothy in 1TIM 1?

I am sure St Paul is not arrogant.

 

[CalmDownWisWins]

Sorry I meant no harm by saying stomach, I was stating a fact that receiving communion is a lot more than the host enterig the you know what,

We accept Jesus in our hearts at communion and yes our body,
it is by his transforming power which changes us from inside out,

How do you bodily receive Jesus? Do you have a Priest to consecrate the host via his capability of acting in persona Christi?

If you don’t have a Priest do the consecration, you don’t have a consecrated host, and if you don’t have a consecrated host you can’t very well bodily receive Jesus as Jesus is not there to be received!

So, since you (most likely) don’t bodily receive the body of Jesus, what is your excuse for disobeying His command to do so?

YES, it’s necessary to receive Jesus in our hearts, but it’s also necessary to receive Jesus bodily, and the refusal to do so when He is available is damnable intent on your part.

The protestant, or whatever you want to call yourself, puritanistic imbalance in favor of the “spiritual/symbolic” over the “physical/bodily”, which CHARACTERIZES who Jesus was in His being EQUALLY true God and true man, is the basic problem.

You’d rather be “right” than be saved by having to do as you’re told and be “messy” and real.

 

[CalmDownWisWins]

Quote:
Originally Posted by jmcrae
…Therefore, we cannot say with absolute certainty. We can say, “I hope,” and we can say “Based on this or that fact that I know to be true, I think …” but since God hasn’t actually made the decision yet, there is no way to know, 100%.

read 1 Timothy 1, do you beleive the same?

1 Timothy - Chapter 1

1 Paul, an apostle of Christ Jesus by command of God our savior and of Christ Jesus our hope,
2 to Timothy, my true child in faith: grace, mercy, and peace from God the Father and Christ Jesus our Lord.

3 I repeat the request I made of you when I was on my way to Macedonia, that you stay in Ephesus to instruct certain people not to teach false doctrines
4 or to concern themselves with myths and endless genealogies, which promote speculations rather than the plan of God that is to be received by faith.

Why are these “teachers of false doctrines” not RIGHT, as you claim to be RIGHT, as they, as “believers” have just as much ACCESS to the Holy Spirit as you do?

5 The aim of this instruction is love from a pure heart, a good conscience, and a sincere faith.

Those who teach doctrine are to do so with the intent of spreading love from a pure heart, a WELL FORMED (well instructed in true doctrine) conscience, and a sincere desire to do as God says to do.

6 Some people have deviated from these and turned to meaningless talk,
7 wanting to be teachers of the law, but without understanding either what they are saying or what they assert with such assurance.

False teachers are interested in “being utterly certain as to outcomes (having black-and-white ‘proofs’ of what will happen via knowing ‘the law’)” without understanding what they SAY because they have not been properly instructed in what needs to be known, which comes only from the Church.

8 We know that the law is good, provided that one uses it as law,
9 with the understanding that law is meant not for a righteous person but for the lawless and unruly, the godless and sinful, the unholy and profane, those who kill their fathers or mothers, murderers,
10 the unchaste, practicing homosexuals, kidnapers, liars, perjurers, and whatever else is opposed to sound teaching,
11 according to the glorious gospel of the blessed God, with which I have been entrusted.

Wanting “certainty” in areas where certainty can be known is a good thing, but being righteous is not a matter of certainty, but of doing as we are told by God.

12 I am grateful to him who has strengthened me, Christ Jesus our Lord, because he considered me trustworthy in appointing me to the ministry.

13 I was once a blasphemer and a persecutor and an arrogant man, but I have been mercifully treated because I acted out of ignorance in my unbelief.

Those who are not culpable of their “false teaching” because they are “invincibly ignorant”, who then accept that they need to do as God says to do can then DO as they are told to do, and hope for salvation by doing so.

14 Indeed, the grace of our Lord has been abundant, along with the faith and love that are in Christ Jesus.

15 This saying is trustworthy and deserves full acceptance: Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners. Of these I am the foremost.

Even the worst sinner can be saved if he accepts the graces of God.

16 But for that reason I was mercifully treated, so that in me, as the foremost, Christ Jesus might display all his patience as an example for those who would come to believe in him for everlasting life.

May we all be examples of Jesus for those who accept the abundant grace of GOd.

17 To the king of ages, incorruptible, invisible, the only God, honor and glory forever and ever. Amen.

18 I entrust this charge to you, Timothy, my child, in accordance with the prophetic words once spoken about you. Through them may you fight a good fight
19 by having faith and a good conscience. Some, by rejecting conscience, have made a shipwreck of their faith,
20 among them Hymenaeus and Alexander, whom I have handed over to Satan to be taught not to blaspheme.

Defenders of the faith from teachers of false doctrine should know the truth (have a well formed **conscience **based on the FULLY revealed truth from the Church) and hold to it (continue to have faith) in refutation of those teachers of false doctrine (“the good fight”).

Some people, by rejecting the WELL FORMEDNESS of their conscience, generally by clinging to those portions of the deposit of faith that they “like”, are “comfortable with”, and thereby of necessity having to REJECT other portions of it (the DoF), have shipwrecked, actively ruined, the coherence of their belief-system (their faith), yet they egomaniacally teach untruth anyway, having convinced themselves that Satan is God, who as Satan and not God will teach them the consequences of their blasphemous rejection of ANY of God’s gifts to us.

 

[CalmDownWisWins]

Having said that, if He sees catholic with a capital “C” like in Roman Catholic, I am toast in hell.

I am not coming back to Roman Catholicism.

That is how strong I believe in we are all Christians, we all found Jesus, Jesus is the ONLY way to heaven AMEN

And they accuse Catholics of being “judgemental”!

Luckily for you, Whatis, God is incredibly merciful if honesty is present in one’s choice of “this way or that”, and you may be shown, between now and when you are asked to choose God or your errancy, how you can honestly have been in error in a way that you will accept and choose God.

Just as you now THINK you are 100% CERTAIN that you will remain outside the Church (Catholic), you THINK you are 100% CERTAIN that you will be saved. Neither of those CERTAINTIES really measure up to the word “certain”, do they?

Jesus IS the only way to heaven, and hopefully you will come to see, by accepting God’s grace, that only by doing our utmost FOR Jesus as we know it is heaven attainable.

You now know better what “believe and be saved” means. If you continue until the end in refusing to act on what you now know that that means, you damn yourself.

 

[natsclem]

Let me get this straight: you believe that the Catholic Church is only necessary for salvation for those who know and believe it is true? “Outside the Catholic Church Is No Salvation” is certainly a peculiar phraseology for that don’t you think? Do you actually believe there are people who know the Church is true and necessary for their salvation but refuse to enter? Wouldn’t the world be better off if we never preached the Catholic faith? After all, according to your belief, they would all be saved by invincible ignorance anyway, and surely more people could get into heaven that way than if we actually challenged them to become Catholic.

While that may be your understanding, some of our Popes, while speaking ex cathedra (infallibly), seem to have had a slightly different understanding:

I’ll stick with the Popes, thanks!

oh wow! heavy stuff! BUT SENSIBLY LOGICAL!

I really sometimes entertain that idea…“why bother sharing the Catholic faith if invincible ignorance can save anyone? Just pray that God will give them the grace of illumination and acceptance of His love before death; anyway, God is all love and wishes that everyone will be saved and, in the first place, salvation is by grace alone.” Why bother…?

 

[whatisthetruth]

Hi natsclem, Thank you for your ending prayer, I receive your passionate plea in my heart. Your faith like many here are second to none.

In due respect, please review my conversation with Kolbe.

You will find that we are on the same side, Jesus side.
Jesus is th ONLY way to the father. You and I receive Jesus differently. the Main thing is we have JESUS.

As far as scripture, May I offer to agree that we disagree. I can not find purgatory in the scripture you mentioned.

God bless you

truth

i think the boundless of God’s mercy is manifested is when a publicly known sinner spent long time bedridden and then suddenly ask for a priest and died after the administration of the last sacrament. others get well and have lived a holy life.

i think we should not entertain the concept of statistical im/probability in this matter.

**For whatisthetruth **

The most certain Catholic teaching is that salvation is by grace alone and we are capable of rejecting that grace. time is immaterial. If one dies rejecting grace, he/she is doomed for all eternity. If one who has lived 20 years of holy life but dies in mortal sin for even a single act of mind will be doomed for all eternity. If one who has lived his/her whole life in sin but, at the moment before death, accepts grace (salvific) is saved but, of course, he/she will undergo purification in the state of Purgatory (see 1 Corinthians 3:12-15).

It is God’s prerogative–those He wishes to be saved, He saves. Who can question His freedom? In fact (by the testimony of the scripture), He wants all to be saved. But, He did not remove freewill from humankind. Because of that, not all will end up being saved (in heaven already). He gives us enough grace to be able to receive grace. His grace is always enough to enable us carry the burden of persevering in Christ lest our faith fails in doing His work on earth. But, we can reject that grace. Like for example the simple rejection of the totality of the Word of God in scriptures by accepting only the “faith alone” and rejecting James 2:14-26. the protestants by doing that is rejecting the grace of Catholic Faith.

As a matter of fact, in the judgment seat: it is not based on faith but by charity (Matthew 7:21-29). I believe that applies under ordinary circumstances. Will the protestants be saved by faith alone? Confessing or declaring by mouth that “I am saved and therefore I am assured of enjoying heaven for all eternity” does not make one assured of heaven. Such mouths will be rebuked and dismissed by the Lord: “I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.”

Separated brother (if you are whatisthetruth, I implore you, in Jesus Name who is all Mercy and Just, turn away from the deceptions of satan, come to the Catholic Church which He built upon Peter, whom He has given the keys of the Kingdom of Heaven–the authority that He never gave to Luther or Calvin or Wesley or Henry VIII. It is the Ark of Salvation and the Pillar of Truth regardless of our sinfulness. Come join us so that you will also be filled with God’s graciousness most intimately shared to us in the form of bread and wine–the Holy Eucharist.

Resist no more, for TODAY IS MERCY, THE FUTURE IS JUSTICE.

 

[whatisthetruth]

hi whatis… that crucifix hanging in the church is a constant reminder of God’s love for me.it is how i was redeemed. how i became a son of God most high.the God who lives in me.i can say with St. Paul "For i determined not to know anything among you but except Jesus and him crucified"1Cor.2:2 the prayer of St Bede the venerable…Let me not O Lord be puffed up with wordly wisdom,that passes away, but grant me that love which never abates,that i may not choose to know anything among men,but Jesus and Him crucified.

Hi fb, I know it is. As you sas you keep the main thing the main thing. and that is you treasure the love Jesus has for you.

God bless you FB

truth

 

[CalmDownWisWins]

If Paul, the worst sinner, testified to Jesus saving him,
Why would he not save you?

He would, and can, and will, if I choose to accept His grace, just as Paul did.

It’s not a question of His not wanting to save me, as He wants to save everyone, but only my accepting Him as the only One who CAN save me by doing as He says.

Paul said the truth, by faith, is “worthy of all acceptation”.

CalmDownWisWins, you asked how to accept Jesus into your heart as Lord and Saviour, I can not say it any better than the
following.

Saint Paul did in 1Timothy1, and as faithful and dedicated Christian you are, in that, you believe in Jesus Christ the way I do,

forums.catholic-questions.org/showpost…5&postcount=83,

here is the verse I sincerely pray that God may open up your heart to receive, not my word, but God’s word to you,

Do you realize that since my only fault is “overkill” by doing MORE than you “feel necessary” to do to acheive salvation, that in the present situation only YOU are in the position of being damned to hell for actively disobeying God?

Your being willing to grow in Christ continually is an very admirable thing, but if you refuse to do what He says as He says it and instead to do only that which you are comfortable doing because to do more, to FULLY accept His graces by your doing His will, your growth in Christ is merely a collection of “works of the law” with which you expect to trade with God for entry into heaven.

The way to know that you are not doing all that you could, knowingly, do is that you don’t accept your “orders” from your “superiors” (those at higher pay-grade for having been tested for their competency in matters of faith and morals) at “HQ”, which is the Magisterium of the Church.

The way to know that your “works” are “works of the law” is by seeing that the authority who “guarantees the truth” of your decision to do only a portion of what God says to do is you, and not, as is told us in scripture, and in sacred tradition, to “take it to the Church for decision”.

I shall have you on my pray-for list as a good and probably-ignorant person who most definately should be graced with the grace of accepting God’s grace so as to see those errors of his which if not freed from his person will drag him to hell.

 

[CalmDownWisWins]

Last question

Are you prepared for eternity in heaven should God call you right now?

I, personally, am prepared for heaven right now, as heaven would be the answer to all my hopes, but I’m only as suitable for heaven right now as I am, which is thoroughly unworthy, in my opinion, and utterly at the mercy of God in getting there.

You will probably presumptuously say, “I am prepared for heaven right now!”, but you’ve shown me that you are not prepared to give up your pet-comfort of “need for certainty in the God-ordained-uncertain”, which means that you may “be prepared” for heaven right now, meaning “I’m ready for my CAKE now!”, but you’re not suitable for heaven right now.

 

[CalmDownWisWins]

Do you really believe the Good thief s the only one on the face of this earth that God gave assurance of heaven whiole they were still living?

Yes________

No_________

No.

But because He gives assurance to ANYONE does not mean anyone can know until it is given whether they have been given it.

You presume to KNOW you are heaven bound. You can’t know that, therefore you show yourself to be either enormously naive or a liar.

In any case, we are to be as concerned for our “certainty of salvation” in exactly the same manner as we are to be concerned about when Jesus will come again.

 

[CalmDownWisWins]

Quote:
Originally Posted by CalmDownWisWins
…
What you pose as “God” is not God.

You are worshipping at the altar of “Comfort”, and if you continue to do so, your “comfort” will drag you to hell.

This is a pretty bold judgement call
What does the Church say about this verse?

Quote:
Matthew 7:1
Judge not, that ye be not judged.

The Church says that we are not to judge the **souls **of others, that we are not to give up on them as hopelessly lost to God, but we are CERTAINLY to judge others **behaviors **as to how they are congruent or incongruent with correct behavior as the Church has infallibly shown us as true.

BUT, in any case, we are not to make rash and impetuous judgements, as all judgements must be made in the best possible light, in search of the good in the situation.

To judge even “bad behavior” in the spirit of wanting to be superior by making the “bad guy” a DEMON is not to be done.

Just as we are to listen to really understand, we are to judge to make the world better for that judgement.

More importantly what does God say it means?

God says, to me personally in private revelation, that it means that we are not to bring more evil into the world by the way we fight evil, but we are to always fight evil.

But, that needs to be checked against the understanding of the Body of Christ.

Do you need the church to interpret that verse?

Do you ask that question to make yourself look “superior” because you are more “independent and self-sufficient” than Catholics are?

We Catholics have our private revelations, just as you do, but we have the added assistance of the Church as infallibly truthfull confirmation of what we hear from the Holy Spirit, or whomever it is that has communicated with us in our inquiry.

If it wasn’t God, but something else disguised as God, who gave us a communication, it’s nice (ESSENTIAL) to have such a source of truth and correction.

Who do you suppose the folks at Jones’ Town mistook for the Holy Spirit in their private revelation when they inquired as to the “goodness” of their leaders? Wouldn’t it have been nice if they’d checked in with the Magisterium, just in case?

 

[CalmDownWisWins]

And of course more judgements.

Do you believe you are speaking to me in the way Jesus would want you too?

or in the way the church wants you too?

Thanks

truth

Once again, the perennial cry of “judgementalist!” from the protestant. It’s to be expected.

If you’ll actually read what I said, you’ll notice that I’m not “judging” anything but observed evil behavior.

I am making known my observation of that behavior to warn the behave-ers (folks who hold your views) that they ARE evil, as they seem to not notice that.

Jesus came to divide, in this particular area of life. In the area of faith and morals evils need to be called evil, so as to assist those who might mistake them for good from that grave (damnable) mistake.

The Church might, or might not, want me to be less strident, perhaps, but that is a matter of discipline, and in matters of discipline we can disagree to some small extent, until we get rebuked for being naughty, in which case we are to be docile in accepting our pennance.

 

[whatisthetruth]

Hi jmcrae

Whatis;

If you had the opportunity to go to the very best military training school in the whole world (and there was a campus in your neighborhood), which has been in continuous operation since 30 AD, and **no soldier who graduated ever suffered defeat **at the hands of the enemy, would you turn down the opportunity?

Heck no. especially if i had a 100% assurance that I would not be the first defeated soldier.

Would you say, 'Oh, no, I’d much rather set my own exercises and train in my back yard; it’s so much easier than having to travel all the way across the neighborhood all the time." ?

I will pass on this offer

Yet, you turn down the opportunity to be a Catholic; why is that?

For starters,

If I were to tell you that the church is God would you believe me??
If I were to tell you that the Church rules over God, would you believe me?
If I were to tell you that God rules over the church, would you believe me?

I believe the only question you can say “yes” too is the last.

If that is the case then, why is the constant theme not just here but through out these threads is

all to look to the authority of the Church who is guided by the Holy Spirit.

when are Catholics going to realize that the church, even though has a very valuable role in God’s plan, is not God.

God has the authority and the Holy Spirit who guides the church also guides you too.

Why I am not Catholic?,

It seems that if I was, I would be told that I can not listen to or understand what the Holy Spirit is saying to me and/or the Holy Spirit only communicates God’s authority through all from the priests up to inluding the pope in the apostlic sussession.

Someone told me in a thread the the “you’s” in the bible are only directed at the people who the verse was spoken.

How many of you have seen the Father’s Love Letter?
Click on my apology letter in my signature and you will see the link.

last but not least,

why should I be Catholic you do not believe your own message?

I love the scenario you gave above. Lets look at it from your side.

from above you said, “If you had the opportunity to go to the very best military training school in the whole world which has been in continuous operation since 30 AD, and **no soldier who graduated ever suffered defeat **at the hands of the enemy, would you turn down the opportunity?”

I said yes and I assume you would too.

However, we are talking about the same thing according to the word of God,

God had said in his word to come to Him by faith and you will not be defeated in the fires of hell, not since 30 AD, but since the beginning of time.

God saved Noah, Abraham, Ruth, Job, and the list goes on and on and on even before you get to the new testament

Let me ask you what you asked me, the gurantee is in the word of God,

For God so loved jmcrae, that he gave his only begotten Son, that if jmcrae believeth in him jmcrae will not perish, but have everlasting life. John3:16

 

[CalmDownWisWins]

Quote Whatis:
My fear is that there are RC’s like I once was who see the pope as God.

You can certainly claim to have been a Catholic, but when you say things like that you demonstrate that you were NOT a Catholic during the time you held that belief, and undercut your argument for your being “more Godly” than those who follow all of God’s Word.​

Like what???

thanks

When you say you were a Catholic who believed that the Pope is God, you prove that you were a “Catholic” in name only.

Do you actually think that being a Catholic is merely being born into a Catholic family, or calling yourself a Catholic without actually believing the REAL doctrines of the Church?

 

[whatisthetruth]

I, personally, am prepared for heaven right now, as heaven would be the answer to all my hopes, but I’m only as suitable for heaven right now as I am, which is thoroughly unworthy, in my opinion, and utterly at the mercy of God in getting there.

You will probably presumptuously say, “I am prepared for heaven right now!”, but you’ve shown me that you are not prepared to give up your pet-comfort of “need for certainty in the God-ordained-uncertain”, which means that you may “be prepared” for heaven right now, meaning “I’m ready for my CAKE now!”, but you’re not suitable for heaven right now.

“but you’re not suitable for heaven right now”
NAme me someone who is

 

[natsclem]

I know for a fact that if I should die right now, I will be in heaven with the Lord. For God so love the world that who so ever believes in him shall not perish but have ever lasting life.

Matthew 7:21-27
21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father who is in heaven. 22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy by thy name, and by thy name cast out demons, and by thy name do many mighty works? 23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity. 24 Every one therefore that heareth these words of mine, and doeth them, shall be likened unto a wise man, who built his house upon the rock: 25 and the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell not: for it was founded upon the rock. 26 And every one that heareth these words of mine, and doeth them not, shall be likened unto a foolish man, who built his house upon the sand: 27 and the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and smote upon that house; and it fell: and great was the fall thereof.

Salvation does not end in hearing His Word and believing in His infinite love but in doing His Will.

Is entering the true Church God’s will? That is for you to re-discover and re-consider. Here, we have done our part…that it is God’s will and that the true Church of Christ is the Catholic Church. So, no matter how ugly is its history, no matter how evil and autocratic some of its popes were, we remain because our focus is in Christ; after all, there was Judas among His disciples.

 

[natsclem]

Originally Posted by Preacher Vern
So you know for a fact, that if you sould die then you would go to Heaven to be with the Lord for ever? Cause like he said Jesus, you must be born again.

I know for a fact.

You are referring to John 3:3. But what does it mean to be “born again”? Jesus meant it as being born of water and of spirit (John 3:5). That is actually the Sacrament of Baptism–the prerequisite of entering into being part of Christ Mystical Body, the Church, and therefore into the Kingdom of Heaven. Peter and the Church, remember, were given the keys of the Kingdom of Heaven (Mat 16:18-19; 8:13 - 18).

You now research, among the many religions or churches and denominations today, which of them is the true Church of Christ that begins with Christ and His apostles themselves? Which can say with all honesty that they have the unbroken ‘apostolic succession’ in the manner of the election of Matthias as replacement of Judas (Acts 1:23-26). Which of the churches that claims it has the power to bind and loose?

if you are not convinced, do you perhaps believe that the gates of hell prevailed against the true Church of Christ that it is now extinct? Then you make Christ a liar and a mere man who break promises to his wife (the Church).

Consider you position. Never mind Judases in the Catholic Church, focus on the promise of Christ.

 

[whatisthetruth]

Hi Philthy and others,

I am glad that Philthy responded the way he did, (next post and my comments)

His posts illustrates the challenge in communication with the hope that the message we send is the exact way it will be received.

Having said that I have broken my Golden Rule to myself in that to assume innocence before assuming guilt.

Thank you Philthy for pointing out my error in “assuming guilt” first in your response to me.

I offer you and everyone else here on this thread, my sincere apology to anything that I have said that was anything but in the love of Jesus Christ.

I ask you to forgive me and I commit to you that I will let God be the Judge of any of our wrongdoings, not me.

I will take care to post my comments from this point back up with sensitivity to your feelings, especially when seeking answers to questions in areas of our differences.

I realize you belief what you do because you believe it to be the solid “Rock” truth

I can promise you that I believe what I do because I believe it to be the solid “Rock” truth

In order to understand each other better, I am offering for all to find a little bit of soft spot in thier “Rock” in our responses to each other.

I have to believe even though Jesus is the “Rock” of truth, He Himself had not a little soft spots but many of them.

By the way, if you have not noticed, take notice on how that soft spot of Jesus impacted the lives of your Christian brothers and sisters, in my **Shine Jesus Shine **thread. Praise God.

forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=212973

How has Jesus impacted your life?

I look forward to see you all there.

My commitment to you is that I will post everything with the love and care of Jesus behind my words.

It is my hope, when you receive the message I am sending, you will feel nothing short of the love and care of Jesus.

You all are my brothers and sisters in Christ. I do care about you and, BTW, I have in all in my prayers.

In case you missed it, here is my prayer to all of you,
forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=214964

I hope you didn’t mind, I wanted to share my heart with you.

Thank you

God bless you all

truth

Now to answer Philthy’s comments

cont…

 

[whatisthetruth]

Hi again Philthy,

** Philty’s
Just for the record - I dont think I said anything uncharitable about you, and I know for fact I intended no offense. What, exactly did you take offense in of MY comments?**

I probabably misunderstood the mesage, lets see where I erred so we can get it right

Perhaps you are confusing my comments with Calmdownwins?

Perhaps. Lets review and find out.

**I stated facts, not opinions. If there is a fact that you disagree with please let me know. **

We will do:thumbsup:

I, once again, have not judged your eternal destiny.

Thank you for comfirming, I am sorry if you thought that I believed you were judging my eternal destiny.(if that made sense)

Are you sure that is a fact or is that your opinion?

**Im only sure that you stated in prior posts that your assurance was based upon God’s promises in Scripture (and not on personal revelation.) Are you claiming you had a private revelation where God revealed your eternal destiny or not? **

I stated I am 100% sure of my salvation based on the word of God should I die right now.

Correct - your assurance is based upon your interpretation of Scripture (ie “word of God”). You have also stated that you are not infallible in your interpretation of Scripture. Therefore, your assurance is based on your fallible interpretation of Scripture and not on personal revelation. Where am I not stating facts?

Ahh, ok. I see your meaning.
The reason why I am saying that God promised me is because it is in Scripture and He comfirmed for me what He meant.

Consider an auto manual, auto mechanic and me.

If I knew nothing about how to repair my car, I might seek the owners manual for direction on how to do the repair work I needed.

If I did not understand something, I might seek the owner of the manual to interpret what he meant by “__________” so that I would understand what is written.

Having done that, I took action and repaired my car as directed by not only by what was written in the MANUAL (bible) but also aided by a private conversation with the owner(GOD) to help me interpret the directions in the manual (bible).

I could not have repaired my car correctly if the owner(GOD) did not interpret, for me, the directions in the MANUAL (bible)correctly.

If I said to you,
“with the help of the owner’s manual, I was able to fix my car”,
would I be lying to you?

If I said to you,
with the help of a private personal conversation with the owner to help me interpret the words in the owner’s manual, I was able to fix my car,
**would I be lying to you? **

Conclusion,

If I said to you, in order for me to repair my car, I not only read the owner’s manual, but I also had a private conversation with the owner to help me interpret the words in the owner’s manual,
**would I be lying to you? **

I believe you know what I mean now.
**If not ask **

cont…