Is this normal....

[Serap]

This thread makes me sick. When we have a poor woman, who has been clearly abused, and disheartened and disoriented as a consequence, coming to this forum, can’t we find it in ourselves to stay on topic?? I am deeply disgusted by the bickering, the hijacking of the thread, and how it was diverted into some sort of philosophical discussion about whether it is ever possible to give any useful advice over the internet. We are almost at post #100, and more than half of the discussion deals in hypotheticals and this senseless bickering, that will not help our OP, Mommie, in any way. I am going to report this thread to the moderators, and ask them to take a look at it.

Our OP has been scolded for not cleaning the damn fridge, at the same time when she has been in “zombie mode” for days and days, caring for the couple’s seriously ill child, and she didn’t have a good night’s sleep for more than three days in a row! What kind of husband is that, why can’t he get off his butt and clean the fridge, if it so bothers him? And when his wife complains that she can’t go on like this anymore, her husband threatens her, “If you leave me, you will not get a lot of child support, and I will keep it in court for five years!”.

It doesn’t take a genius to figure out, this woman is being abused, and she is disheartened, possibly depressed, to the point where she can’t see clearly that she needs to take steps to stop the abuse, and protect herself. She needs to reach out for help, which will obviously include her priest, a marriage therapist, and medical professional (because she seems depressed, and may need therapy and medication for depression), but for God’s sake, she started looking for help HERE, on this forum, so why can’t we be kind and caring enough to her, not to hijack her thread?

Can we PLEASE stay on topic, and try to comfort, encourage, and enpower the OP to do something about her dire situation, rather then bickering about how her presentation of the situation could be one-sided, and how we never heard the husband’s side to the story?

I agree, but you are just as guilty. No one has said that this woman is wrong, etc.

I’m unsubcribing from this thread b/c you guys just don’t get what I’m trying to say. Unless you know personally everything that’s going on, then you can give an educated opinion.

Bye

 

[Serap]

You are obligated to treat any complete stranger as a competent adult and with due * consideration and respect*makes any request for opinions and advice from people

she is fully entitled to receive opinions and advice from people and use and evaluate or disregard those opinions and that advice however she might wish.
Challenging her ability to distinguish opinion from fact, her ability to be rational, the circumstances of her marital disputes with her husband, and her right to ask for and receive opinions and advice from whomever she chooses (irregardless of their professional or non-professional status), is rude, demeaning, condescending, and not anyone else’s personal business nor concern but her own.

I’m not challenging anything I’m saying that they both go see a professional to discern what’s really going on without ruining their marriage entirely

Calling me condescending? That’s unfair.

I’m out. Bye.

 

[Joseph_L_Varga]

Geez… stick to the topic people. We’re here to help not bicker over the details.

I pray you’re alright honey xx keep us updated please!!!

I’m quoting above post #25 from PamS. Seriously, folks… time to stop it.

 

[mommie]

I would like to thank everyone for participating and for their concern.

I started this thread because I needed some emotional support, and because I didn’t want to involve extended family of friends.

I know every couple argues.

But please, everyone, I’m a grown-up, I might be somewhat sad and upset about this situation, but I know that for actual advice I need to consult a professional.

But for support, is it inappropriate to reach out to Catholics?

Thanks again.

 

[Joseph_L_Varga]

Mommie, how would your husband react if you invited him to read this thread, and to see what other guys think of a husband who’s too lazy to clean the damn fridge, and instead keeps tormenting his wife, who has been up for several nights with the sick baby? Is the baby only your baby, or, is he the father, too? When did he change the diapers and clean his baby from poo, for the last time?

Just askin’…

 

[Joseph_L_Varga]

You could offer him to clean the fridge, in return for HE taking over the care of the baby for the next 3 days, and in return for HE sacrificing his next three nights, to stay up with the baby.

Man, I do find it hard to sympathize with a guy like this… :dts: :dts: :dts:

 

[PrayerShark]

I would like to thank everyone for participating and for their concern.

I started this thread because I needed some emotional support, and because I didn’t want to involve extended family of friends.

I know every couple argues.

But please, everyone, I’m a grown-up, I might be somewhat sad and upset about this situation, but I know that for actual advice I need to consult a professional.

But for support, is it inappropriate to reach out to Catholics?

Thanks again.

Mommie, I hope we’ve been able to give you that much needed emotional support. It is no way inappropriate for you to seek help and reach out. I don’t think it really matters if you are Catholic, people of all faiths whether it be Christian, Jewish, Muslim or Buddhist will grasp a helping hand in need.

Have you decided to seek help and move forward in this matter? Keep us update on how you are doing.

 

[joandarc2008]

Mommie, I hope we’ve been able to give you that much needed emotional support. It is no way inappropriate for you to seek help and reach out. I don’t think it really matters if you are Catholic, people of all faiths whether it be Christian, Jewish, Muslim or Buddhist will grasp a helping hand in need.

Have you decided to seek help and move forward in this matter? Keep us update on how you are doing.

Great post

 

[floresco]

I started this thread because I needed some emotional support, and because I didn’t want to involve extended family of friends.

I know every couple argues.

But please, everyone, I’m a grown-up, I might be somewhat sad and upset about this situation, but I know that for actual advice I need to consult a professional.

But for support, is it inappropriate to reach out to Catholics?

It is reasonable to ask for emotional support. A more clear way to do this would be to write something like “I feel sad and upset about my marriage because I don’t think that my husband is treating me well.” Then people could respond with messages of sympathy for your feelings and offers of prayer for you.

The way you phrased your first post was asking everyone for an opinion that we are not qualified to give. We are just hearing your side of the story so none of us can answer if your husband’s behaviour is normal. Telling you that your husband is a psychopathic monster is not an appropriate way to show support. Appropriate support is telling you that we care about you and we are keeping you in our prayers.

For the record, I do care about you and I am keeping you in my prayers. It is because I care about you that it disturbs me to see so many people insulting your husband. If you are trying to fix your marriage, then seeing all this negativity directed toward him makes your task more difficult. I very much hope that your marriage is fixable and that you are working on fixing it. I do not know enough to say this is the case, but it is my hope for you.

 

[floresco]

I repeat:
When ANY parent threatens the children’s financial support in ANY way (even as a joke!), it is a threat to the CHILDREN.
When ANY parent threatens a 5 year court battle (even as a joke), it is a threat to the CHILDREN.

And I repeat that this alleged threat to the children is something that you are reading into the words of the OP. Obviously you cannot think of any other meaning for them, but you ought to be able to see that other people have understood the same comment differently than you did.

It is at least as likely that the husband’s words were meant to protect his children. Let’s say his wife is threatening to leave him and he is aware of problems facing the children of divorce. To protect his children, he tries to dissuade her from this disastrous course of action by telling her that the amount she gets in child support will be less money than she she currently has at her disposal and that the children will be affected by this lower standard of living. He tells her how strongly he is opposed to divorce and that he means to fight it in court so that it will go on for years. Even though this will be expensive and inconvenient for him, he is not prepared to let his children be harmed without putting up a fight.

If you want to make up stories about this couple, you could make just as good an argument that the wife is psychopathic because she is threatening her children’s welfare with her threats to leave their father. Doesn’t she care that she is putting them at greater risk for negative social outcomes by leaving him?

Of course, I am not saying this is the case. I am saying that it makes just as much sense as what you are saying. It is an imaginary scenario based on the OP, just like what you are writing.

 

[Ailina]

" he said I was mentally ill."

I feel desperate, I’ve told him various times that I can’t go on like this…he’s made threats on how if I leave I wouldn’t get much child support, or if I leave he’d keep it in court for 5 years.

Maybe i am mentally ill…, as I type I’m crying.

In almost 13 years of marriage, he’s done the laundry maybe 3 times. He’s prepared dinner a handful of times. Once when I had to work late and wasn’t home until 8, once after a miscarriage, I don’t remember anymore times.

I’ve had two miscarriages. The second one came after a fight with him. He wanted his friend to come over, I had just gotten a positive pregnancy test. I was worried, because the pregnancy prior to that one ended in miscarriage. I wasn’t up for it. He fought with me, that I was too concerned about myself, that pregnancy wasn’t such a big deal, women were designed to give birth in a field. He then invited his mother to come to clean the house, because I wasn’t capable to. when his friend came, his mother acted as hostess.

Floreco, go back and re-read the first post. She didn’t threaten divorce; she said she was tired of being treated the way he is treating her. There is a difference.

He’s sleeping on the couch instead of in the marital bed, he calls her annoying and mentally ill, he berates her for not cleaning the fridge despite the fact that she has barely slept in three days taking care of a sick baby. He has people over despite the fact that she is having a miscarriage. He doesn’t help around the house at all, but expects her to do everything herself no matter what the circumstances.

So yeah, some of here will call a spade a spade, based on what she has told us. It IS abusive behavior. Disregarding your wife and entertaining friends in the house while she is miscarrying is major abuse, not minor. Nobody deserves to be treated that way.

She is asking for advice and we are telling her: “No, it is not right for spouses to be treated that way. Go for counselling. Talk to your priest.” If she tells the priest what she told us here, the priest is not going to say “This is your cross to bear for the sake of your husband’s salvation.” He is going to say: “Your husband needs to respect you better, to treat you better than this. Husbands are supposed to treat their wives the way Jesus treats the church.”

She has every right to ask for advice, to listen to it, and to consider what to do next. As I’m sure you know, there is a whole lot of humiliation and shame to this kind of treatment and often people don’t want to mention this to their real life friends and family. She is being worn down to the point where she isn’t sure about anything anymore. Who would be, if you are called “annoying”, “mentally ill”, and slovenly. Those are not kind words. That should not be considered normal.

It takes TWO to fix a marriage, not just one. She cannot fix it by herself. Hence, most of us here are saying “Go for counselling and see your priest.” Hopefully she has a medical plan that can pay for counselling since it is not cheap.

 

[eucharisteo]

Although I am not one to condone the barbarian horde violence method as the instructional method of choice, your concern for the children involved is a point very well taken. Children are deeply affected, deeply frightened, and deeply scarred by what they see and hear going on between their parents. Children are innocent bystanders in marital disputes whose well being is of primary concern, and any threats against the support and well being of the children on the part of either parent qualifies as behavior that is legitimately psychopathic in nature.

and why I stated it so harshly. I have very little respect for anyone that justifies abuse to the weakest of our society, especially children.

 

[eucharisteo]

My post was intended to make a point, not a course of action to necessarily take. Having grown up in two different abusive homes I tend to suspect any man that would say such a thing. He should be chastised by his wife for saying such a thing. And if he said that he is disgusted by her then he should be ashamed of himself and ask for forgiveness, not only from his wife, but God and anyone else that heard him say it. This is totally unacceptable. If he is capable of going to this length he may be capable of hurting her even more. But, like I said, seek pastoral counseling first as well as personal therapy to get yourself through it. So what if you’re mentally ill. Who cares, he still is required to treat you properly, like a bride. He’s supposed to be your prince, your knight. He should be doing things to protect you, like I do my own wife. I made her sign up for a sonogram scan today. It made me angry because she neglects herself and doesn’t set healthy boundaries for herself. It’s slowly killing me inside. But I continue, drive on.

Now, this is not to insenuate that you are crazy. Mental illness comes in all forms. Having children takes a major toll on a woman’s body. It changing you. Each child we’ve had too her at least 3 years to begin recovery. But our last one really did her in to a breaking point. Now I take care of her, so much that ia even quit my engineering job because she won’t make the right choices to protect herself and save up enough time to take care of our children. Someone has to do it. So in spite the fact that I have 5 more years to retire I’m changing careers, using the time to take care of family and get “retooled” with more education and work towards becoming a teacher, DRE, deacon. I started as a seminarian 30 years ago, now I want to return to the same studies for becoming a deacon. My point is that your husband made a promise to love you in sickness, not just in health.

So take care of yourself. Go spend a week with your mom or someone close to you. Go on a retreat. It’s time he learns what you do as Mommy. I know I am being honored when my 5 year old daughter calls me mommy.

 

[floresco]

I could go through your whole post showing how you bias everything against the husband but I will take this one example:

He has people over despite the fact that she is having a miscarriage. He doesn’t help around the house at all, but expects her to do everything herself no matter what the circumstances.

In hindsight, we know that she was having a miscarriage, but it does not sound like this was known at the time. He did respect that she said she was not up to entertaining by having his mother come over to clean and act as hostess. Instead of appreciating the help, the OP took this as an insult.

We have no idea why the husband felt it was important to have the friend over. Perhaps this friend had just suffered a bereavement. Perhaps this was a coworker and the visit was essential for the husband’s job. There is no reason to assume that the husband was being insensitive.

Every thing that the OP told us could have some other meaning than the one that you are giving it. None of us knows what is really happening in this situation. None of us is qualified to give opinions or advice other than that she needs to get professional help.

 

[Joseph_L_Varga]

My post was intended to make a point, not a course of action to necessarily take. Having grown up in two different abusive homes I tend to suspect any man that would say such a thing. He should be chastised by his wife for saying such a thing. And if he said that he is disgusted by her then he should be ashamed of himself and ask for forgiveness, not only from his wife, but God and anyone else that heard him say it. This is totally unacceptable. If he is capable of going to this length he may be capable of hurting her even more. But, like I said, seek pastoral counseling first as well as personal therapy to get yourself through it. So what if you’re mentally ill. Who cares, he still is required to treat you properly, like a bride. He’s supposed to be your prince, your knight. He should be doing things to protect you, like I do my own wife. I made her sign up for a sonogram scan today. It made me angry because she neglects herself and doesn’t set healthy boundaries for herself. It’s slowly killing me inside. But I continue, drive on.

Now, this is not to insenuate that you are crazy. Mental illness comes in all forms. Having children takes a major toll on a woman’s body. It changing you. Each child we’ve had too her at least 3 years to begin recovery. But our last one really did her in to a breaking point. Now I take care of her, so much that ia even quit my engineering job because she won’t make the right choices to protect herself and save up enough time to take care of our children. Someone has to do it. So in spite the fact that I have 5 more years to retire I’m changing careers, using the time to take care of family and get “retooled” with more education and work towards becoming a teacher, DRE, deacon. I started as a seminarian 30 years ago, now I want to return to the same studies for becoming a deacon. My point is that your husband made a promise to love you in sickness, not just in health.

So take care of yourself. Go spend a week with your mom or someone close to you. Go on a retreat. It’s time he learns what you do as Mommy. I know I am being honored when my 5 year old daughter calls me mommy.

Eucharisteo, I just wanted to say that hearing your story, your love and care for your wife, warms my heart. You are a classy guy, Sir!

I think it’s a good idea for Mommie to take some time off, to just relax and spend with her mom or someone close to her. And dump the kids (at least the two older ones) on her husband for a week, let her turn the table on him, and teach him a lesson in what it means to keep a house in order, with small children and all! If I would be Mommie, when I would return from my vacation, I would check out the house, and really scold my husband if the fridge was not shiny clean, not to speak about the laundry, hot meals for the children, and no dirty dishes in the sink!

 

[former_Catholic]

Telling you that your husband is a psychopathic monster is not an appropriate way to show support.

You are absolutely right that referring to her husband as “a psychopathic monster” is entirely inappropriate, however, YOU are the only person here to have EVER used the term “psychopathic monster” or to have associated her husband with such a term.

Why on earth should the OP have asked you for emotional support to deal with her marriage or husband? You’re not her mother, her confessor, her therapist nor best friend; you are nothing but a stranger.

The OP didn’t come here asking for an authoritative definitive judgment of herself, her husband, or her marriage. The OP merely asked for opinions about a handful of specific human behaviors. Analyzing a handful of specific human behaviors isn’t analyzing a husband. Analyzing a handful of specific human behaviors isn’t analyzing a *marriage. *Analyzing a handful of specific human behaviors is analyzing *a handful of specific human behaviors.
*
People are qualified to give their opinions on behaviors that they recognize to be not “normal” (inappropriate, abusive, etc.) and have been doing so in a reasonable manner. You point out the dangers of “bad advice” but have so far refused to answer the question of what specific advice anyone gave here that you consider to be “bad advice.”
The people here are entirely capable of contemplating and discussing a handful of specific behaviors like adults, why not?

Controlling, (manipulative, raging, demeaning, condescending, threatening, lying, etc.) behaviors that warring parties engage in against one another in violation of one another’s emotional, physical, and spiritual boundaries constitute warring or abusive behaviors

Behaviors that are directed against and have a negative effect on non-disputing, innocent bystander parties (kids, pets, furniture, non-combatants) in the course of a dispute between warring parties constitute psychopathic behaviors

When analyzing what does and does not constitute “acceptable behaviors,” any behavior directed against a non-disputing innocent bystander with potentially negative effects on that bystander may rightly be termed as a behavior having “psychopathic traits” and therefore “unacceptable.”

A behavior “with psychopathic traits” negatively affecting an innocent bystander is not at all the same thing as “a psychopath.”
“A psychopath” is a person with an overwhelming pathological tendency to act out violent aggression against innocent bystanders.

The OP asked people’s opinions on specific behaviors as described by the OP.
If you have an opinion on a specific behavior as described by the OP, please give it.
If you feel that you are unqualified to give any opinion, then don’t.
If specific behaviors resemble behaviors other posters have experienced in life and they choose to share that with the OP, why not?
If posters regard specific behaviors as abusive or oppressive or whatever, given the information provided by the OP, and given their own experience with such behaviors and choose to give their opinion, so what?
If as you say

Every thing that the OP told us could have some other meaning than the one that you are giving it. None of us knows what is really happening in this situation.

So what?
The OP didn’t come here for an analysis of herself, her husband, or her marriage nor some definitive authoritative judgment on herself, her husband, or her marriage.
The OP didn’t come here needing you to be her mother, her confessor, or her therapist.
The OP came here to contemplate a handful of specific behaviors.

So if you care to discuss or have got some opinion on those stated behaviors, given the information given, please give your opinion.
Otherwise please stop derailing the thread by bemoaning the fact that you feel that everyone is unqualified to offer her anything because she hasn’t chosen to lay out her entire life history here for you to personally scrutinize.
She is a competent adult capable of making her own judgments for herself and sharing stories with other adults as she sees fit.
As for your determination of her need for “professional help”… I am sure that she can likewise determine for herself if she does or does not need “professional help” beyond sharing with others, doing some research, conducting some experiments, and sorting out things for herself.

 

[Ailina]

I could go through your whole post showing how you bias everything against the husband but I will take this one example:

In hindsight, we know that she was having a miscarriage, but it does not sound like this was known at the time. He did** respect that she said she was not up to entertaining by having his mother come over to clean and act as hostess. Instead of appreciating the help, the OP took this as an insult. ** How is that respect? If she is feeling ill, why on earth would he have someone over? Have you ever had a miscarriage?

We have no idea why the husband felt it was important to have the friend over. Perhaps this friend had just suffered a bereavement. Perhaps this was a coworker and the visit was essential for the husband’s job. There is no reason to assume that the husband was being insensitive. Yes there is reason. The OP poster told us why. So why are you adding all these imaginary scenarios that didn’t happen???!

Every thing that the OP told us could have some other meaning than the one that you are giving it. None of us knows what is really happening in this situation. None of us is qualified to give opinions or advice other than that she needs to get professional help.

Are you on crack? You sure are giving a lot of excuses as to why the husband might be doing the things he is doing. Maybe he is a selfish lout. It certainly sounds like it to me. He certainly sounds insensitive as wel You sure are reading a lot into the husband’s actions that the OP didn’t once state. That is bizarre. You are also cherry-picking what I wrote, when I was using the exact same words the original poster wrote.

He can’t clean the fridge himself? Why not? He wasn’t the one staying up with a sick baby for three nights in a row. Why is it so important that the fridge be cleaned? Really? WHY?! Why couldn’t he clean it himself? The OP is giving examples of what is going on in her life. So why are you telling her she might be mistaken? Maybe she isn’t. So quit the gas-lighting.

I am basing my statements purely on what the OP is saying, rather than having her doubt herself even further. And even I have stated that she needs to go for counseling to sort this all out, and to see a priest as well.

 

[former_Catholic]

My post was intended to make a point, not a course of action to necessarily take. Having grown up in two different abusive homes I tend to suspect any man that would say such a thing.

I should add that my husband also grew up in an abusive and alcoholic home and tends to favor the barbarian horde instructional method as the only reliable method for severe cases, as it was indeed the only method that was effective on his own father. Well yes… at the point a 6’2’ 240 lb physician pinned him in a full nelson and threatened to drop kick him out a 10 story open hospital window… his raging out-of-control alcoholic father did finally manage to see the light… and begin to change.

 

[former_Catholic]

He did respect that she said she was not up to entertaining by having his mother come over to clean and act as hostess.

Wow. Sure hope he didn’t over exert himself and strain his fingers punching buttons on the phone to call his mommie to come help!

 

[Zatzat]

Wow. Sure hope he didn’t over exert himself and strain his fingers punching buttons on the phone to call his mommie to come help.

Wow, it sounds like your not a big fan of that man. How long have you known him?