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goout
Guest
No disagreement. Not the point.
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Jimbo
Guest
I’ve done a decent amount of reading to try to figure this out. This is all from the top of my head, so forgive the lack of citations.
To sum up what I’ve read, it seems we don’t know yet what causes transgenderism, and I think it deserves a great deal more study.
There has been a study which suggests that the brains of transgender individuals are in fact different from those without gender dysphoria.
There have also been some twin studies which suggest that there may be a biological or genetic disposition.
On the other side, there has been that Brown study which suggests that in the teenage years, knowing a transgender person increases your chances of identifying as transgender; but that this clears up over time.
I’ve also read other studies which suggest that many who identify as transgender ‘age out’. In one case I read about a young lady who transitioned to being a man found out later that she was not trans, but rather depressed. Once she treated the depression she felt comfortable being a female.
You could also have an underlying mental condition which creates a personality with a different gender than your physical sex.
So… alot of study needs to be done, and science seems to be trying to deal with this.
I have a tremendous amount of sympathy for those going through this. Their lives almost universally seem to be hell.
What I worry about is that it has now gone from being something we study, and try to help these people in the best way possible, to a political agendized situation. Maybe some people have a different brain and are best treated by trying to transition. I don’t know. But clearly some aren’t. The young lady who was depressed convinced herself she was trans, and then went to people at her school who completely got behind her. She ended up taking hormones and getting a double mastectomy. Now her body is damaged.
Had someone been able, at the beginning, to say ‘Maybe you’re depressed’ or ‘Let’s get to the bottom of this’ she might have been able to avoid the pain of the surgery and its subsequent effects. But We don’t live in that world now. I know from around where I live if you did something like that you would be attacked and labled a ‘trans-phobe’.
Further, they are now authorizing sex change transitions on FOUR year olds in Australia.
This is a sad state of affairs.
To sum up what I’ve read, it seems we don’t know yet what causes transgenderism, and I think it deserves a great deal more study.
There has been a study which suggests that the brains of transgender individuals are in fact different from those without gender dysphoria.
There have also been some twin studies which suggest that there may be a biological or genetic disposition.
On the other side, there has been that Brown study which suggests that in the teenage years, knowing a transgender person increases your chances of identifying as transgender; but that this clears up over time.
I’ve also read other studies which suggest that many who identify as transgender ‘age out’. In one case I read about a young lady who transitioned to being a man found out later that she was not trans, but rather depressed. Once she treated the depression she felt comfortable being a female.
You could also have an underlying mental condition which creates a personality with a different gender than your physical sex.
So… alot of study needs to be done, and science seems to be trying to deal with this.
I have a tremendous amount of sympathy for those going through this. Their lives almost universally seem to be hell.
What I worry about is that it has now gone from being something we study, and try to help these people in the best way possible, to a political agendized situation. Maybe some people have a different brain and are best treated by trying to transition. I don’t know. But clearly some aren’t. The young lady who was depressed convinced herself she was trans, and then went to people at her school who completely got behind her. She ended up taking hormones and getting a double mastectomy. Now her body is damaged.
Had someone been able, at the beginning, to say ‘Maybe you’re depressed’ or ‘Let’s get to the bottom of this’ she might have been able to avoid the pain of the surgery and its subsequent effects. But We don’t live in that world now. I know from around where I live if you did something like that you would be attacked and labled a ‘trans-phobe’.
Further, they are now authorizing sex change transitions on FOUR year olds in Australia.
This is a sad state of affairs.
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Jimbo
Guest
Coersive? I’m not sure what coersive peer review is? Not trying to be picky, just confused.
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Thorolfr
Guest
One important consideration is that in most cases, for something to be considered a mental disorder, it must significantly impair someone’s ability to function socially, at school or at work, etc. But homosexuality doesn’t really fit that criteria. Tim Cook, the CEO of Apple, is gay and this obviously didn’t impair his ability to rise to the top of the one of the most valuable companies in the world. And there are lots of other successful and well-adjusted gay men and women. I think that psychologists and psychiatrists just came to the conclusion that homosexuality is not an impairing condition and most gay men and women don’t seek treatment as a result of their sexual orientation.
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Thorolfr
Guest
It’s a lot more complicated than what many people seem to think. That’s why I disagree with those who call transgender people “delusional”. We need to know more before making any judgements.
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buffalo
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They bowed to the pressure of activists. They want license to act as they wish, and we all have to love and embrace it.
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EmmaSowl
Guest
Thank you. Lol, I know my mental illness (untreated) greatly disrupts my ability to function. Do you happen to know why it had been previously decided that a same-sex attraction and/or activity disrupted the ability of a homosexual patient?
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EmmaSowl
Guest
Jimbo:
I don’t understand. Are you saying that the lives of the delusional are not hell? And do you believe there is a stigma to the word “delusional” (as if it were the person’s fault)?
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JimG
Guest
One should also consider the possibility of transition regret:
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adgloriam
Guest
Well @buffalo, lots of people want license to act as they will - including Catholics that misbehave. Including the Pharisees who loved being in everyone’s face about what they perceived as being the law. You’ll find no short amount of bigots among Christians bothering others.Thorolfr:
They bowed to the pressure of activists. They want license to act as they wish, and we all have to love and embrace it.
Now here comes the twist: The fact that anyone knows some truth is a gift of the Holy Spirit -don’t pride yourself in what you perceive as your own achievements- that doesn’t entitle nor prompt one to bother others beyond charity - sure rule of thumb, if you’re being uncharitable and not considering the person before the law, it’s actually you who’s in the wrong.
Defense of the truth is a tight rope.
Now, plenty of gender ideology as it circulates is wrong. But the fact is plenty of people have transgenderism, that is a FACT! And you aren’t suppose to go bothering them about it, you are supposed to be charitable. Because God knows they probably have enough of a hard time as it is already.
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adgloriam
Guest
Here comes the interesting issue that it all boils down to.
The only “impairment” worth mentioning would be not marrying and constituting a family in accordance with catholic doctrine (with all it entails, love between man and woman till death do them part). That’s it.
Now, we see folks from all walks of life not wanting or simply not constituting a family (and plenty of cases where people fail at their attempt. It’s a sacrament, it doesn’t work without plenty of grace.) I suppose, after much reflection, what the psychiatrists decided was that pinning a ‘disease or disorder’ to that one root cause and effect wasn’t ethical. And I have to recon, ethically, they were right.
[I have no admiration for a CEO when put next to a family man/woman, the latter far outweighs the former.]
Now, it were those ill-fated we mentioned earlier that taught me the importance of placing the person first. One was remarried, the other cohabiting, another sinned, the other had a noticeable age-disparity. Were it today, I wouldn’t tell them doctrine; I would tell them: Be happy! Live your life! Construct your happiness! And return to Christ!
Because God forbid, that me stating doctrine should somehow scandal them or hurt them or harm them. I would give anything to have them back, we all would.
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JimG
Guest
This is somewhat confusing to me. Is it only through the guidance of the Holy Spirit that anyone can see that there are men and women, and the a person is either one or the other? It seems to me that nearly everyone recognizes this fact early in life.
When I was a kid I used to pretend to be Superman. But of course I couldn’t fly. I knew it was only pretend. If I had really believed that I was Superman, would it have been charitable of my parents to accept my supposed identity? Or should they gently remind me that I’m really not Superman, and that taking the pretend play too seriously might hurt me?
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buffalo
Guest
or take you to a tall building and push you off.
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Thorolfr
Guest
It has never seemed quite that binary to me. Some men are kind of effeminate in the way that they talk and act and some women are kind of manly (butch). And some men are sexually attracted to men just like most women are and some women are sexually attracted to women just like most men are. And now we know that some men don’t just act and talk like women, they say that they feel like women. And some women don’t just act and talk like men, they say that they feel like men. So, it seems a little but more complicated than what you describe.
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IWantGod
Guest
What ever it is, i just don’t think it’s a good idea to use the ladies washroom if your a man.
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IWantGod
Guest
I get what you are saying, but If you have a penis, then i wouldn’t advise it.
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IWantGod
Guest
This idea that there are women trapped in male bodies is not something i take seriously. But if by chance that is true, i apologise. I get the concerns when it comes to hermaphrodites. But when somebody who is clearly and biologically a man says that they feel like a women inside, that to me is not a good enough reason to be allowed in the women’s toilets or showers. Personally i think in this case it’s a psychological problem they have. It’s like somebody saying that they feel like they were suppose to be a horse or a cat.
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thistle
Guest
You are thinking of hermaphradites and actually they not common and also not what we are discussing in this thread which is transgenderism.
We are discussing those born male with normal male “tackle” as you put it and same for those born female.
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JimG
Guest
If the matter of determining male from female is so fraught with uncertainty, maybe physicians should fill out the space on every birth certificate for “sex” with the words “to be determined.” (They may not know the sex because it’s just too uncertain. But somehow they can know that the child was born gay.)
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adgloriam
Guest
And if the Holy Spirit doesn’t give someone that understanding? Then it’s not your choice or preference and it might even be causing the person suffering. Then your commandment is to be charitable.adgloriam:
This is somewhat confusing to me. Is it only through the guidance of the Holy Spirit that anyone can see that there are men and women, and the a person is either one or the other? It seems to me that nearly everyone recognizes this fact early in life.
When I was a kid I used to pretend to be Superman. But of course I couldn’t fly. I knew it was only pretend. If I had really believed that I was Superman, would it have been charitable of my parents to accept my supposed identity? Or should they gently remind me that I’m really not Superman, and that taking the pretend play too seriously might hurt me?
Then, it’s not a case of make believe. Those persons have deep-seated profound problems. And any medical doctor would tell you to place the person first by not adding to their trouble or agitation with whatever you construe to be the truth. That’s simple.
And this time it’s not about you @JimG -because I think you are cool- some folks on this thread are being aggressive. Rest assured whatever the mental issue someone is facing wanting to impose by way of force on them is hardly ever the right approach, indeed it shows an ineptitude. We aren’t calling into question whether gender dysphoria is right or wrong, but how we’re supposed to handle those less unfortunate then ourselves.
It was @Don_Ruggero about one year ago on another thread who said he’d use the personal pronoun of the gender the person he addressed preferred. So that got me thinking that peace takes precedence in brief daily interactions and if we want to give someone our take of the truth we ought to first go through the ordeal of becoming friends with them.
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