Is Transgenderism a Mental Disease?

[adgloriam]

I think it’s good to note that psychiatry is an exponentially booming business, and at the same time we have ever increasing suicides, depression and anxiety, and drug abuse.

I don’t think the two ends are necessarily related with the former causing the latter.

So I take anything the APA endorses with a huge bowl of salt.

I’d take it easy on the salt, because although APA is bound to have some politics -as many scientific organizations do- they also lead a field that is medical in nature, and some of the work they bring together has done humanity lots of good on a whole.

 

[buffalo]

So, why would a PhD in biochemistry be especially qualified to make this kind of analysis of the literature on homosexuality?

Predictably you now have resorted to attacking the person not the data.

 

[adgloriam]

Comparing the suicide risk of transgender people after transitioning to the general population isn’t all that useful. It would be more important to compare the suicide risk of transgender people who transitioned to those who didn’t. I doubt that there is enough data yet to make a good analysis.

I don’t mean to bother @Thorolfr. We’ve talked about the scientific side of things before when I brought up the CDC study.

On this difficult issue, statistical studies show 6 main underlying causes combining together towards such ill-fated regrettable outcome.

The first is ending of a relationship or abandonment by spouse. Then comes substance abuse, loss of ability to work, falling into financial difficulty. When you see someone combining the factors, and verbalizes it, the red flags are all there and anything can easily become a trigger.

The problem is, the transgenders -by their very nature- are prone to incur in several of the above factors. Certainly, for them relationship will be hard to begin and maintain (abandonment). If they undergo gender reassignment, as with any surgery, that can bring health problems to their ability to work. And well, I do suppose they will have a harder time with financial stability than average folks.

So, in a way, if we verify a deviance in in those rates numerically, it isn’t necessarily because the person is transgender, but because being transgender contributes to the 6 risk factor model. With causes being those exact same 6 risk factors.

[Wikipedia shows that 6 factor model.]

[And I don’t mention the social difficulties and injustices in Durckheim’s classical sense - because that could take attention away from the red flags needing attention.]

 

[TrumpTrain]

Is transgenderism a mental disease?

The fact that you even have to ask that question shows how for towards the gutter this country has drifted.

 

[adgloriam]

Thorolfr:

So, why would a PhD in biochemistry be especially qualified to make this kind of analysis of the literature on homosexuality?

Predictably you now have resorted to attacking the person not the data.

Actually I like his argument and it isn’t ad hominem.

A PhD in biochemistry isn’t in principle the most suited scientific/academic background to deal with this issue.

 

[Thorolfr]

Predictably you now have resorted to attacking the person not the data.

What data are you talking about? You made a handful of unreferenced quotes from an unidentified biochemist from New Zealand. That’s not much data to evaluate.

 

[niceatheist]

As I recall Jesus ministered to the sick and dispossessed. He didn’t ape the common sentiment of his day that lepers, prostitutes and the poor were somehow inherently flawed or responsible for their lowly state. Quite the opposite, in fact. His ministry had the element of a specific calling to such individuals, and he called out his own followers when they questioned his dining with these people.

So while some here are calling out transgendered individuals as sick or mentally ill, I’m having a hard time squaring it with the Gospels’ accounts of Christ’s ministry.

 

[lagerald24]

Jesus reached out to these people where they were and called them to Himself. Despite their sinfulness and their afflictions, He met with them and raised them up to greater things. Rather than okaying a lifestyle, He called for these people to reject sin, to pick up their own crosses, and to follow Him. That is the Jesus of the Gospel.

 

[buffalo]

A PhD in biochemistry isn’t in principle the most suited scientific/academic background to deal with this issue.

And homosexual activists are. Really? This has been and is a political issue. What proponents seek is license to act as they wish, mistaking this for true freedom. In addition, the rest of us have not only tolerate these behaviors, but endorse and embrace them as normal.

I have news. The natural law is written on human hearts and this will never be normal.

 

[buffalo]

What data are you talking about? You made a handful of unreferenced quotes from an unidentified biochemist from New Zealand.

Really? It is obvious you have not even looked at it.

“This is a summary of more than 20 years of research into homosexuality. It draws on more than 10,000 scientific papers and publications from all sides of the debate.”

 

[buffalo]

As I recall Jesus ministered to the sick and dispossessed. He didn’t ape the common sentiment of his day that lepers, prostitutes and the poor were somehow inherently flawed or responsible for their lowly state. Quite the opposite, in fact. His ministry had the element of a specific calling to such individuals, and he called out his own followers when they questioned his dining with these people.

So while some here are calling out transgendered individuals as sick or mentally ill, I’m having a hard time squaring it with the Gospels’ accounts of Christ’s ministry.

I am here to help!

By definition, Jesus, the Son of God, coming to meet humans on earth means everyone He encounters is a sinner. He had no issue calling them out. Hell is mentioned by Jesus more than anything else. He also cured physical ailments. He cast out demons. But most of all, He was interested in the soul. We should minister with love to those afflicted.

Truth with love

not

Truth without love
or Love without truth.

True Christian charity demands fraternal correction. Otherwise, we do not care where our brothers spend eternity,.

 

[adgloriam]

The natural law is written on human hearts and this will never be normal.

Indeed, corruption, aggression, lust, vanity reside in the human heart - like pope Francis has said.

 

[thistle]

A parent who allows their child to explore their gender identity in a safe, compassionate setting is doing an excellent job.

I disagree with that. If their child is born male they should be brought up as a male. Same for a female.
I would say its bad parenting to do otherwise.

 

[EmmaSowl]

So while some here are calling out transgendered individuals as sick or mentally ill, I’m having a hard time squaring it with the Gospels’ accounts of Christ’s ministry.

As a former nice atheist myself, I would like you to consider something: there is an assumption in this statement that there is something wrong with referring to someone as sick or mentally ill. I think if you reflect on that, you’ll come to realize it is a false assumption.

I think we’ve all been physically sick, and few of us would be offended if someone said, "Dude, you’re sick! " when we needed to get in bed with some chicken soup. As someone who has battled mental illness since at least the age of 10, I thank God we are getting closer to a time when it is not a stigma to be mentally sick.

On the other hand, as someone who has spent 34 years in and out of the mental health system with a wide range of types of doctors and plans, I view the industry much like the woman with the hemorrhage might view the medical profession in her day (I am referring to Mark 5:25-26 as opposed to Doctor Saint Luke’s telling of the event). Of course, thank God for all doctors. My black humor comes from love.

My two cents as a psych patient is this: it is almost impossible for me to understand why anyone would think that the best way to treat someone who thinks he is something he is not is to use drugs and surgery to make him look more like the thing which he still is not. I would think that the best treatment would be to help him confront and cope with his situation in the real world. Doing so might involve drugs and surgery as more is learned, but I would think that the goal of any treatment would be acceptance of reality, learning to struggle through it, and fighting to thrive in it.

 

[meltzerboy2]

Psychologists used to think that homosexuality is a disease/disorder. That is no longer the case. The same with transgenderism: gender identity disorder at first, but now gender dysphoria. There’s a lot psychologists know and even more they don’t know about human thoughts, feelings, drives, and behaviors. Likewise, in medicine, biology, chemistry, physics, and all the sciences, there is much that still needs to be learned.

 

[EmmaSowl]

Psychologists used to think that homosexuality is a disease/disorder. That is no longer the case.

Yes, but because psychologists are not infallible, we have no way of positively knowing which position is correct. Newest Position does not equal Correct Position.

 

[meltzerboy2]

True, and neither are physicians, biologists, chemists, and physicists infallible. So what about the newest positions in these fields: do you believe them or not?

 

[Sean]

Transgenderism yes if between a man and woman however if you do consider yourself one of the 60 other genders thats a difference story.

 

[EmmaSowl]

True, and neither are physicians, biologists, chemists, and physicists infallible. So what about the newest positions in these fields: do you believe them or not?

I believe most, not all - just as I do with psychologists.

The harder and more physically verifiable the science, the less likely I’ll question it. I don’t even question soft science unless it flies in the face of my experience and/or reason.

It would actually be interesting to me to read the criteria by which psychologists changed their collective minds on homosexuality. I know that they did. I’ve never come across the reasons why.

But more than that, I would like to know the reasons for the current decision to treat a delusion by having the patient embrace the delusion. For me, this is especially troubling because the medical side of the treatment is so drastic: it gives hormones to pre-pubescents and encourages elective surgery to patients whose brains are not fully formed, which I have read (could be wrong) doesn’t happen until 25. But even if their brains are fully formed at these young ages, they have not yet had the chance to gain the wisdom to make a major decision because they have not even experienced life outside the safety net of their parents.

 

[goout]

So what is the point? You complain about psychiatry and psychology being based on feelings and perceptions, but really all we have to go on is patients’ feelings and perceptions, i.e. are they feeling better or feeling worse, are they functioning better or are they functioning worse.

When I see my doctor, all he can go on is my reported perceptions, possibly backed up by third party observations, about whether I’m less distracted and am more focused than what I was before the dosage of myedication was raised or since I completed some kind of therapy.

The same goes for something like depression. Does the patient feel more depressed or less depressed after some kind of therapy or medication? What more objective measure of mental health would you suggest that could actually be measured?

I didn’t complain about psychiatry. You cited the authority of psychiatry and I am pointing out that psychiatry is a very subjective business.
And in the context of the topic, subjectivism is a problem when “male” and “female” are somehow up for conjecture.