ISIS reaches center of Rhamadi

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Ridgerunner said:
The “non-war” against ISIS is, indeed, different than the Iraq War, in that we are essentially not participating in the “war with ISIS” other than to have our air force supply a little air support for Iranian forces. The Iraq War was a real war.

They’re also different in that we won the Iraq War whereas we’re losing the “non-war” against ISIS.

And the reason why we’re in the “non-war” against ISIS is that Obama threw away the victory in the IRaq War. Even his own military and intelligence advisors told him that and now say it publicly.

And compared to Saddam Hussein’s regime, ISIS is, indeed, the junior varsity. Obama was right about that. The only problem is that even the junior varsity can win if they get a “bye”.
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We simply cannot go mucking about the affairs of the Old World every time some crop of bad guys starts to act up. And as for Iraq, the only “victory” was that we were able to pay off the Sunnis to stop shooting at us for a decent interval. But most folks here are too stiff-necked to see that. And that’s sad. We spend 8 years fighting in Iraq and trying to train Iraqi forces. Poor devils just couldn’t cut it when the going got tough. But then, Iraq was never meant to be a cohesive nation in the first place. And comparisons to the occupation of Germany Znd Japan are silly. Those were homogeneous nations with robust civil societies. Iraq is as far from that ad you can get.
 
bibcat said:
We simply cannot go mucking about the affairs of the Old World every time some crop of bad guys starts to act up. And as for Iraq, the only “victory” was that we were able to pay off the Sunnis to stop shooting at us for a decent interval. But most folks here are too stiff-necked to see that. And that’s sad. We spend 8 years fighting in Iraq and trying to train Iraqi forces. Poor devils just couldn’t cut it when the going got tough. But then, Iraq was never meant to be a cohesive nation in the first place. And comparisons to the occupation of Germany Znd Japan are silly. Those were homogeneous nations with robust civil societies. Iraq is as far from that ad you can get.
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“But most folks here are too stiff-necked to see that.” :confused: How did you know that some people are a pain in the neck? :rolleyes: Perhaps you can straighten everything out for everybody since you know all about silly old Germany and Japan. Don’t stop now that you are on a roll! “Iraq was never meant to be a cohesive nation” well, you should be the one to tell them that. I think there are a lot of people over there that might like to quit while they are ahead because “Iraq is as far from that ad you can get”.

Just wondering … would you like to tell us about your education? 🤓
 
bibcat said:
We spend 8 years fighting in Iraq and trying to train Iraqi forces. .
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Do Americans want to stay in Iraw forever and pay taxes to support this. Already, thousands of American lives have been lost and hundreds of billions of dollars spent. Where does all this money go?
 
Tomdstone said:
Do Americans want to stay in Iraw forever and pay taxes to support this. Already, thousands of American lives have been lost and hundreds of billions of dollars spent. Where does all this money go?
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Oh, America will never go back to Iraq, so not to worry about that. By the time Obama is out of office, the probabilities are that either the Islamic State will have established itself firmly as the Sunni Arab state of the central Middle East, or Iraq and Syria will be colonies of Iran. Obama’s Sunni/Shia war will not go on forever, as much as many in the region likely wish it would.
 
People are still fighting the partisanship of the Iraq War in America, as if it had not already been lost.

America or the West will not be doing anyone any favors by getting involved in the fight against the genocide, which is ISIS. People are just not that interested anymore.
 
Tomdstone said:
Do Americans want to stay in Iraw forever and pay taxes to support this. Already, thousands of American lives have been lost and hundreds of billions of dollars spent. Where does all this money go?
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👍 Exactamundo.
 
Tomdstone said:
Do Americans want to stay in Iraw forever and pay taxes to support this. Already, thousands of American lives have been lost and hundreds of billions of dollars spent. Where does all this money go?
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Would you "un"like to know where hundreds of billions of $$ were spent by Obama? I didn’t think so. But this is where some MORE is going - providing Irag with grenade launchers and tank busters - that way Iraq will abandon them and ISIS will pick em up again.🤷
 
grotto said:
“But most folks here are too stiff-necked to see that.” :confused: How did you know that some people are a pain in the neck? :rolleyes: Perhaps you can straighten everything out for everybody since you know all about silly old Germany and Japan. Don’t stop now that you are on a roll! “Iraq was never meant to be a cohesive nation” well, you should be the one to tell them that. I think there are a lot of people over there that might like to quit while they are ahead because “Iraq is as far from that ad you can get”.

Just wondering … would you like to tell us about your education? 🤓
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So I make a couple of typos trying to bang out a post on my cellphone and you decide to play spelling Nazi and criticize my education. 🤷 Ok, “Iraq is as far from that as you can get”. How’s that? And by stiff-necked, I meant stubborn. Maybe I’ll use the easy words next time.
 
Tomdstone said:
Do Americans want to stay in Iraw forever and pay taxes to support this. Already, thousands of American lives have been lost and hundreds of billions of dollars spent. Where does all this money go?
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It’s naive to think Radical Islam is going to be a momentary threat.

Do critics of Americans realize that terrorism is going to have to be fought forever.
 
Path_Finder said:
It’s naive to think Radical Islam is going to be a momentary threat.

Do critics of Americans realize that terrorism is going to have to be fought forever.
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I think there are no few in the west, including some Americans, who think America deserves it, and would take sadistic delight in Americans being killed by those criminals.
 
bibcat said:
So I make a couple of typos trying to bang out a post on my cellphone and you decide to play spelling Nazi and criticize my education. 🤷 Ok, “Iraq is as far from that as you can get”. How’s that? And by stiff-necked, I meant stubborn. Maybe I’ll use the easy words next time.
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If its easier for you, please feel free. Your understanding needs expansion but there is always hope.that “pain in the neck” people can quit. 😉
 
grotto said:
If its easier for you, please feel free. Your understanding needs expansion but there is always hope.that “pain in the neck” people can quit. 😉
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I doubt that. You’re still here, after all. 😉
 
Path_Finder said:
There is a big problem, stories that the Iraqi army outnumbered ISIS by as much as 10 to 1, not our battle to fight then.

azcentral.com/story/news/world/2015/05/23/iraq-isil/27803095/

Which is dispute by the Iraqis: stamfordadvocate.com/news/world/article/Report-Iran-adviser-says-US-let-Islamic-State-6284775.php

Iraq’s PM vowing to take Rhamadi back in days.

aina.org/news/20150525034818.htm
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If the Iraqis, under that stooge al-Maliki, had the sense (and this is a BIG if) to sign a Status of a Forces agreement, we’d still have some sort of a combat presence in Iraq (which I think would be tragic but whatever) that would be watching the South Viet … I mean the Iraqis’ back.
 
Ramadi falls. The Iraqi army flees. The great 60-nation anti-Islamic State coalition so grandly proclaimed by the Obama administration is nowhere to be seen. Saudi Intelligence chief proclaims “We were America’s best friend in the Arab world for 50 years”. Following six years of President Obama’s steady and determined withdrawal from the Middle East, America’s standing in the region has collapsed.
And the presidents press chief proclaims the success of his Mid-East policies.

Here’s a nice analysis washingtonpost.com/opinions/you-want-hypotheticals-heres-one/2015/05/21/909713d6-ffe9-11e4-805c-c3f407e5a9e9_story.html
 
The issue stems from promising voters that a concerted effort would be made to bring the troops home and wrap up military operations around the world. Couple that with the funding reduction for the military and we had no choice but to leave Iraq. Not to mention alerting the enemy as to when we were planning to withdraw didn’t bode well for the Iraqi people. The continued insistence of NO BOOTS ON THE GROUND pretty much means that it will be in the lap of the next president to decide what to do. In the meantime ISIS will make gains and believe me they know they are against the clock in regards to the next presidency and are trying to grab what they can before 2017.

Another thing to consider is that sovereign nations don’t always WANT American troops on their soil in the long term. If a nation ask us to leave and get out of their business-we leave. We may nation build but we are not conquerors or colonists so what were we supposed to do-except change strategy and invade again?
 
Why go back only as far as 2011? If we knew earlier what we knew now, it would probably have been better to leave Saddam Hussein in place. Evil though he was, he was very much less evil than the Islamic State. If Saddam had remained in power, the Islamic State might never have happened.
 
BartholomewB said:
Why go back only as far as 2011? If we knew earlier what we knew now, it would probably have been better to leave Saddam Hussein in place. Evil though he was, he was very much less evil than the Islamic State. If Saddam had remained in power, the Islamic State might never have happened.
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I agree with you.

But with that said, I think it is a close call.

Saddam invaded Kuwait, Saddam had a war with Iran where I think upwards to 800,000 or more died, Saddam committed genocide against the Kurds. He was convicted of the latter.

Yes, and at times, regretfully, we were his friend.
 
BartholomewB said:
Why go back only as far as 2011? If we knew earlier what we knew now, it would probably have been better to leave Saddam Hussein in place. Evil though he was, he was very much less evil than the Islamic State. If Saddam had remained in power, the Islamic State might never have happened.
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ISIS has a long way to go to catch up with Saddam’s death toll. The differences are that Saddam was a lot stronger than ISIS militarily and that ISIS believes advertising its murderousness is to its advantage while Saddam believed hiding it was advantageous to him.

But as between killing people in acid baths (Saddam) and cutting their heads off (ISIS) there’s not all that much to desire, either way.
 
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