ISIS reaches center of Rhamadi

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The Iraq War was an unjust war. Pope St. Jean-Paul said so. I remember, some of his biggest Catholic fans kind of just dropped him after he said it. Utter hypocrisy from stupid Amercanist heretics! Blame only yourselves for the deep **** we’re in today.
 
Hard to say about the oil considering OPEC isn’t very forthcoming with how much each member state has in the ground so who knows how long it will last and/or be available us. Yah, at the end of the day its about the oil. If there were no resources to grab we would have never gone there in the first place.
The U.S. has not gotten significant oil from anywhere in the Middle East for a long time. Most of our imports come from Canada and Mexico, and did during the Iraq war and after.
So, “we” didn’t grab Iraqi oil. It is true, however, that Saddam Hussein was a threat to all of Middle Eastern oil other than that in Iran, oil that the rest of the world does depend on to a large degree.

One potential irony of our abandonment of the Middle East to the worst people there, is that it might bring oil prices down. I read today that Iraq is raising its exports in order to pay for its war against ISIS. ISIS is throwing what oil it can onto the black market for oil. Iran is providing arms and money to its agents, Assad, Hezbollah, the Shiite militias in Iraq and the Houthis in their wars against the Sunni, and will need a lot of money for that too.

I doubt Obama saw that coming when he abandoned the Middle East, but if somehow he did, then perhaps people should accuse him of what might turn out to be the biggest “oil grab” in history.
 
Those are strong statements. You’ll need to cite what you’ve posted, for credibility sake. Anyhow, I’m not “indignant or righteous”, I’m just glad that Americans are no longer being maimed or killed there. Remember, we’re a republic, not an empire. And we shouldn’t be Team America World Police. Moreover, you should realize the “victory” was was accomplished by buying off Sunnis who were mad that we overthrew their meal ticket. As for AQ, they’re not the ones who took Rhamadi, are they?
Okay. Here, for example. washingtonpost.com/blogs/right-turn/wp/2014/10/02/leon-panetta-blows-whistle-on-lies-about-iraq/

And Obama himself said his objective was to NOT leave as many as 10,000 troops in Iraq. He wanted them out, status of forces agreement or no status of forces agreement.

ISIS is an offshoot of Al Quaeda. Not the only one, but it’s one of them.
 
Iraqi PM al-Maliki refused to renew the status of forces agreement that expired in 2011. the Obama Administration proceeded with the plan to withdraw American forces from Iraq (barring some last-minute move in the Iraqi parliament when they were to return from a break in late November 2011, shortly before the end-of-the-year withdrawal date) because of concerns that they would not be given immunity from Iraqi courts. This was a concern of American commanders as well.
Exactly !

And just how long do Americans think we should’ve stayed in Iraq and rebuild their infrastructure and dismal performing military ?

Eventually, we had to get out of there and Obama did, thank God.

Hopefully, he won’t send troops back in.

Jim
 
We got rid of Saddam Hussein and a lot of American soldiers lost their life and were maimed trying to help Iraq be a democracy and rule themselves without a dictator.
Saddam Hussein was responsible for much violence and death against the Iraqi people and the Kurds. Yes, he seemed to be able to keep control of his country, but at great cost.
I think it was a big mistake to leave in 2011, but there was a big election coming up in 2012 and Obama did not want to jeopardize the next 4 years he was craving to be in the White House. It only took a little over 2 years for it all to fall apart and undo all the work our soldiers had done in Iraq which more or less makes their injuries and deaths in vain
 
I agree with you.

But with that said, I think it is a close call.

Saddam invaded Kuwait, Saddam had a war with Iran where I think upwards to 800,000 or more died, Saddam committed genocide against the Kurds. He was convicted of the latter.

Yes, and at times, regretfully, we were his friend.
Saddam invaded Kuwait because Kuwait was slant drilling into Iraqi territory and we knew it.

In fact, a diplomat to Iraq in H.W. Bush’s administration, pretty much told Saddam his conflict with Iraq wasn’t our problem.

In short, it was an Arab problem which required the Arabs to work out and not draw us over there which was the catalyst for Bin Laden to organize Al Qaeda.

Jim
 
Okay. Here, for example. washingtonpost.com/blogs/right-turn/wp/2014/10/02/leon-panetta-blows-whistle-on-lies-about-iraq/

And Obama himself said his objective was to NOT leave as many as 10,000 troops in Iraq. He wanted them out, status of forces agreement or no status of forces agreement.

ISIS is an offshoot of Al Quaeda. Not the only one, but it’s one of them.
Jennifer Rubin? I guess Ann Coulter, Laura Ingraham or S E Cupp weren’t available? :rolleyes: Point is, Obama stated, correctly, that Iraq rejected the Status of Forces agreement. He has never said that he could or couldn’t have more to change their mind and Panetta’s words tell us nothing about what the President thinks.
 
No.

But that’s the problem. We never know then what we know now.
What we see now was predicted and H.W. Bush administration knew it would happen if they went into Iraq and took Saddam down, in the 1st Gulf War.

H.W.'s secretary of state, James Baker was on Meet The Press a few months ago and stated that what we see now in Iraq, is what they knew would happen if they took Saddam down.

Jim
 
What we see now was predicted and H.W. Bush administration knew it would happen if they went into Iraq and took Saddam down, in the 1st Gulf War.

H.W.'s secretary of state, James Baker was on Meet The Press a few months ago and stated that what we see now in Iraq, is what they knew would happen if they took Saddam down.

Jim
James Baker is a man who knows what he is talking about.
 
We got rid of Saddam Hussein and a lot of American soldiers lost their life and were maimed trying to help Iraq be a democracy and rule themselves without a dictator.
Saddam Hussein was responsible for much violence and death against the Iraqi people and the Kurds. Yes, he seemed to be able to keep control of his country, but at great cost.
I think it was a big mistake to leave in 2011, but there was a big election coming up in 2012 and Obama did not want to jeopardize the next 4 years he was craving to be in the White House. It only took a little over 2 years for it all to fall apart and undo all the work our soldiers had done in Iraq which more or less makes their injuries and deaths in vain
Ah, so that’s why “a lot of American soldiers lost their life and were maimed”? Doing a job that was not theirs to do. A job that the Iraqis themselves lacked the resolve and unity of purpose to do on their own. And as for your last sentence, it’s truly sad that brave American men and women risked their lives to build a house of cards that was bound to collapse when they inevitably left. 😦
 
Ah, so that’s why “a lot of American soldiers lost their life and were maimed”? Doing a job that was not theirs to do. A job that the Iraqis themselves lacked the resolve and unity of purpose to do on their own. And as for your last sentence, it’s truly sad that brave American men and women risked their lives to build a house of cards that was bound to collapse when they inevitably left. 😦
My sentiments as well. Also, as we all know…this agreement was made with the Iraqi government by a previous administration. The Iraqi’s will now have to take on their own defense.
 
Ah, so that’s why “a lot of American soldiers lost their life and were maimed”? Doing a job that was not theirs to do. A job that the Iraqis themselves lacked the resolve and unity of purpose to do on their own. And as for your last sentence, it’s truly sad that brave American men and women risked their lives to build a house of cards that was bound to collapse when they inevitably left. 😦
I am so sad you are ashamed of all the hard work our men and women in the military did trying to help people in Iraq have a chance of a better life not living under a dictator.
 
I just go along with what the Commander of Operations over there wanted, he wanted to leave troops there, General Lloyd Austin. He should know.
 
I just go along with what the Commander of Operations over there wanted, he wanted to leave troops there, General Lloyd Austin. He should know.
Well there was division among the brass on this. They either wanted out altogether, or if they must stay, have a large enough force to fight of an attack. As it was, they never trusted the Iraqi government and didn’t trust that the Iraqi’s themselves would not attack a small American force.

That being said, commanders don’t set foreign policy for the United States, that’s the President’s job.

We never want out military commanders to trump the decisions of a civilian government,

Jim
 
I am so sad you are ashamed of all the hard work our men and women in the military did trying to help people in Iraq have a chance of a better life not living under a dictator.
I never said I was ashamed, and you know that. Remember, dishonesty is a sin.
 
I thought it was the Republican President Ronald Reagan who supported Al Qaeda in Afghanistan, calling them freedom fighters?
And Roosevelt and Truman allied this country with Stalin, probably the second greatest mass murderer in history. But nobody condemns either of them for it.

Sometimes “the enemy of my enemy…etc”
 
And Roosevelt and Truman allied this country with Stalin, probably the second greatest mass murderer in history. But nobody condemns either of them for it.

Sometimes “the enemy of my enemy…etc”
The irony is the Afghans (especially women and children) lived worse under the Taliban–and the mess that is running their country now–than they would have had under a pro-Soviet regime. At least under the latter, they’d have had secular education, equal rights for women, a society not based on superstition and depravity, and at least a glimpse into 20th century life.
 
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