ISIS reaches center of Rhamadi

[Ridgerunner]

Chinese ground forces were far more numerous on paper than Japan’s were in the 1930s. They still broke and ran. Even under American tutelage they performed poorly. .

This isn’t entirely true. The Chinese acquitted themselves admirably well in several engagements, including, of course, those of the Eighth Route Army and the Nationalist victory at Changsha. But they were horribly equipped, ill-fed, and were mostly conscripts.

Under American tutelage, (which wasn’t very much) they performed very well. Provided initially with some of the worst soldiers China had, Stilwell ultimately did make an effective fighting force of some theretofore ill-trained, sick, half-starved conscripts late in the war. Stillwell’s own biographical writing certainly did show contempt for Chiang Kai-Shek (whom he referred to as “Chancre Jack”) and the Koumintang elites. But he expressed pride in those troops whom he had an adequate opportunity to feed up, equip, and train.

We usually picture Japan as going through China like a bullet through tissue paper, but the attrition on Japanese was terrible. I actually had occasion, long ago, to meet a Japanese who had been in the Kwantung Army in China. His description of what it was like for the ordinary Japanese soldier was beyond horrible.

 

[bibcat]

This isn’t entirely true. The Chinese acquitted themselves admirably well in several engagements, including, of course, those of the Eighth Route Army and the Nationalist victory at Changsha. But they were horribly equipped, ill-fed, and were mostly conscripts.

Under American tutelage, (which wasn’t very much) they performed very well. Provided initially with some of the worst soldiers China had, Stilwell ultimately did make an effective fighting force of some theretofore ill-trained, sick, half-starved conscripts late in the war.

We usually picture Japan as going through China like a bullet through tissue paper, but the attrition on Japanese was terrible. I actually had occasion, long ago, to meet a Japanese who had been in the Kwantung Army in China. His description of what it was like for the ordinary Japanese soldier was beyond horrible.

True. Chinese soldiers were excellent–when well-led and properly trained. I do recall Lin Piao’s victory over a Japanese column at Pingxing Pass, as well as Changsha. And the Red Chinese rout of UN Forces in North Korea (winter 1950-51) was tragic–but still a Chinese victory.I can’t imagine what it was like for Japanese in the Kwangtung Army once their supplies were cut off later in WW2, or for those stuck on islands for that matter. But the Japanese did overrun most of eastern China, including most major cities (Nanking, Shanghai etc.). That was a catastrophe.

 

[Ridgerunner]

Regardless of where Iranian forces are fighting, Israel will support the opposition against them.

Jim

Hard to know, because there is no fighting group in the M.E. that is NOT Israel’s enemy. Oddly enough, though, I recently read an article in which it was alleged that SOME elements of Hamas were considering joining up with Israel in a joint effort against ISIS, prompted by the former’s alarm at ISIS infiltration into Gaza and recruitment there. Hamas isn’t a whole lot better than ISIS, but it is not beyond the realm of possibility that ISIS will tolerate no other organized group, no matter how Islamist it is.

It would be a major irony if Israel ended up joining forces with Hamas to resist ISIS. But I doubt anyone should hold his breath waiting for it.

 

[Ridgerunner]

True. Chinese soldiers were excellent–when well-led and properly trained. I do recall Lin Piao’s victory over a Japanese column at Pingxing Pass, as well as Changsha. And the Red Chinese rout of UN Forces in North Korea (winter 1950-51) was tragic–but still a Chinese victory.I can’t imagine what it was like for Japanese in the Kwangtung Army once their supplies were cut off later in WW2, or for those stuck on islands for that matter. But the Japanese did overrun most of eastern China, including most major cities (Nanking, Shanghai etc.). That was a catastrophe.

I think it was tough on the Japanese practically from the beginning. My acquaintence recounted how endless it was for them, and how it got worse and worse the farther they advanced into China. Interestingly, he fully blamed the emperor and the princes of the realm for the war; which he said many of the soldiers shared. I recall his telling me that they would come out of an engagement, bloodied, exhausted and with men killed, only to see a plane come in with a chrysanthemum emblem on it, which always meant they would be called upon to hurl themselves again into the depths of China. He said a lot of the soldiers felt that way, but there were these merciless special troops that would torture or kill any ordinary soldier they felt was insufficiently dedicated or aggressive. He said younger people in Japan don’t believe any of that, and ignore the old soldiers’ accounts.

 

[Ignatius]

H I recently read an article in which it was alleged that SOME elements of Hamas were considering joining up with Israel in a joint effort against ISIS, prompted by the former’s alarm at ISIS infiltration into Gaza and recruitment there. .

No Islamist group is going to join Israel. Further more the Islamic State Caliphate will absorb any other Jihadi groups in areas as they come into control. It is likely that their progress will dramatically accelerate after they finish Baghdad and mop up north Africa.

 

[bibcat]

No Islamist group is going to join Israel. Further more the Islamic State Caliphate will absorb any other Jihadi groups in areas as they come into control. It is likely that their progress will dramatically accelerate after they finish Baghdad and mop up north Africa.

It’s Islamic fundamentalist, not “Islamist” (the latter being jargon cooked up by the Heritage Institue/AIPAC crowd). And Hamas is basically a Palestinian revolutionary political party whose leadership might not like ISIS carpetbaggers calling the shots. Who knows …?

 

[Seamus_L]

And now a number of Sunni tribes in Anbar province have defected to ISIS america.aljazeera.com/articles/2015/6/4/sunni-tribes-in-anbar-iraq-pledge-support-to-isil.html
This is why the Shia militias do better against ISIS than the Iraqi army. In the regular army no one is quite sure who's loyal to who.

 

[Path_Finder]

And now a number of Sunni tribes in Anbar province have defected to ISIS america.aljazeera.com/articles/2015/6/4/sunni-tribes-in-anbar-iraq-pledge-support-to-isil.html

                                            This is why the Shia militias do better against ISIS than the Iraqi army. In the regular army no one is quite sure who's loyal to who.

It’s a shame and seems like a real disaster for bloodshed.

I tend to think maybe some things like this went on during the Iran/Iraq war though I would not know.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shia%E2%80%93Sunni_relations

 

[Ignatius]

Ignatius;13024636:

No Islamist group is going to join Israel. Further more the Islamic State Caliphate will absorb any other Jihadi groups in areas as they come into control. It is likely that their progress will dramatically accelerate after they finish Baghdad and mop up north Africa.

It’s Islamic fundamentalist. And Hamas is basically a Palestinian revolutionary political party whose leadership might not like ISIS carpetbaggers calling the shots. Who knows …?

No Islamic fundamentalist group is going to join Israel. Further more the Islamic State will absorb any other groups in areas as they come into control.
It is likely that their progress will dramatically accelerate after they finish Baghdad and mop up north Africa.

 

[grotto]

Looking at the mess made due to abandoning the stabilizing forces - until Obama’s clutches are released and a solid American President is in control - it would be throwing gasoline on a fire for the O administration to intervene further in the ME mess. At best if Obama will give up micro managing military targets, we could make some headway against ISIS.

Iraq would not have disintegrated in the face of this enemy if American support had remained. They had advanced toward having a sense of unification as a country and some hope for an improved future. The Kurdish people suffered but managed to maintain. They deserve assistance.

The nuclear Iran pretense is a further ruin to America’s protection as well as the rest of the world, beginning with the mid-East. ISIS and Iran are a “two- fer”. If they would take each other out everyone would celebrate!

 

[EmperorNapoleon]

This is why the Shia militias do better against ISIS than the Iraqi army. In the regular army no one is quite sure who’s loyal to who.

They don’t have time to figure out with all the running away by the tens of thousands. Very taxing stuff. The Iraqi army is worthless.

 

[JimR-OCDS]

Looking at the mess made due to abandoning the stabilizing forces - until Obama’s clutches are released and a solid American President is in control - it would be throwing gasoline on a fire for the O administration to intervene further in the ME mess. At best if Obama will give up micro managing military targets, we could make some headway against ISIS.

Iraq would not have disintegrated in the face of this enemy if American support had remained. They had advanced toward having a sense of unification as a country and some hope for an improved future. The Kurdish people suffered but managed to maintain. They deserve assistance.

The nuclear Iran pretense is a further ruin to America’s protection as well as the rest of the world, beginning with the mid-East. ISIS and Iran are a “two- fer”. If they would take each other out everyone would celebrate!

The problem is, the Iraqi government wanted US combat forces out per the agreement they had with then President George Bush.

Obama wanted to keep a large enough force. However, the Iraq’s would only them to stay if the president agreed that the US troops would be under the laws of the Islamic State of Iraq. President Obama was correct to refuse to subject American troops to the raqi justice system.

Even if Obama had gotten the agreement with the Iraqi government, there is no way we would want to stay in Iraq for a long duration.

The error all goes back to going into Iraq in the first place.

We had no business being there.

Oh wait, ME oil is our business.

Jim

 

[grotto]

Obama mismanaged an agreement with Iraq regarding a necessary stabilizing force. Nobody wanted to have an extended time in Iraq other than needed, least of all our military.
Legacy aspirations were of more importance.

 

[JimR-OCDS]

Obama mismanaged an agreement with Iraq regarding a necessary stabilizing force. Nobody wanted to have an extended time in Iraq other than needed, least of all our military.
Legacy aspirations were of more importance.

The agreement with the Iraq’s was signed with Bush.

There was no way Obama could leave troops in Iraq without the Iraqi’s agreeing to it.

If you believe it was mismanaged by Obama. please tell us what he should’ve done different to convince the Iraqi government otherwise ? Keep in mind, the Iraqi’s are heavily influenced by the Shiites in Iran

Jim

 

[Tomdstone]

Obama mismanaged an agreement with Iraq regarding a necessary stabilizing force. .

Iraq was mismanaged before Obama.

 

[Darryl1958]

The McCain/Obama election was fought on the length of time that America would stay in Iraq.
To say that Obama did not have a choice is to say that the election itself was a farce.

 

[Path_Finder]

The agreement with the Iraq’s was signed with Bush.

There was no way Obama could leave troops in Iraq without the Iraqi’s agreeing to it.

If you believe it was mismanaged by Obama. please tell us what he should’ve done different to convince the Iraqi government otherwise ? Keep in mind, the Iraqi’s are heavily influenced by the Shiites in Iran

Jim

We were scheduled to leave Afghanistan too I think. These agreements are flexible and the President saw after Iraq that perhaps a different approach was called for.

 

[JimR-OCDS]

We were scheduled to leave Afghanistan too I think. These agreements are flexible and the President saw after Iraq that perhaps a different approach was called for.

We were but the Afghan government wanted the US to keep a larger force in place for longer.

That’s the difference.

When we do leave completely, and we will, Afghanistan is merely going to fall back into the hands of the Taliban with Pakistani support, as they do not want a Indian friendly Government in Afghanistan.

Jim