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planten
Guest
angelos, have sense. Where in that verse 9:74 is any mention of murdering any one. Allah will punish those people, not Muslims or men. Allah can punish them in any and many ways.
- Status
P
planten
Guest
**R_Not and angelos and few others, when I tell you that Jesus was a Jew. He was for the Jews. He was supposed to be the promised Messiah of the Jews, or he claimed to be the promised Messiah of the Jews, Why do you run away?
Why don’t you preach what I have writtena above? Why have you all stopped preaching to the Jews?
**
Why don’t you preach what I have writtena above? Why have you all stopped preaching to the Jews?
**
C
cathopologist
Guest
You need to read a proper Bible. Don’t read a JW’s or SDA versions of the Bible. I also ask you do not seek advice on Christianity from any imam or mullah or whichever person you consider as your spiritual mentor. It’s doing you more harm than good.
When Catholics learn about Islam, we do not learn it from our priests (although some priests are very learned in Islamic theology, dogma and doctrines). I learnt it directly from the Qur’an and through my Muslim companions.
R
R_not
Guest
So what if Jesus was a Jew?! We ALL know that! There are actually quite a number of Jews that are for Jesus - (I know you won’t read the website and instead keep asking your inane questions over and over again, but anyone else can go to www.jewsforjesus.org)).
Why are you not answering to prove that the Bible was corrupted? This is a thread on islam, not Christianity. Start a different thread on that if you want.
Here is my challenge that you and other muslims keep ignoring because you CANNOT answer, or prove it.
Question: how do muslims prove that the Bible was corrupted? Please show the proof of the corruption and the original Bible.
Please do NOT use the koran or hadiths to prove your point. There should be an original document, or text, that they draw this assertion on. your silence, or ignoring this question, tells me more than you realize.
Make sure to include the following:
-Exactly what passages, or chapters, were corrupted.
-Who corrupted the Bible and please don’t use a sweeping statement such as, ‘Christians and Jews corrupted the Bible’.
-provide the proof other than the koran and hadiths because they only have mohammed saying they are corrupted without giving any proof. And don’t say that ‘allah said, or mohammed said that the Bible is corrupted’ because that is just stuff from the koran and mohammed was an illiterate pagan who was throwing out accusations against a literate people who believe that the Bible is the Word of God and had no reason to rewrite it.
So, please provide some proof.
A
Angelos
Guest
9:74 states that ex-Muslims will be punished by Allah in this world as well as in the Hereafter.
Surah 9:74
They swear by Allah that they did not speak, and certainly they did speak, the word of unbelief, and disbelieved after their Islam, and they had determined upon what they have not been able to effect, and they did not find fault except because Allah and His Apostle enriched them out of His grace; therefore if they repent, it will be good for them; and if they turn back, Allah will chastise them with a painful chastisement in this world and the hereafter, and they shall not have in the land any guardian or a helper.
Now read the following verse to see what methods Allah uses to punish people in this world:
Surah 5:33
The punishment of those who wage war against Allah and His apostle and strive to make mischief in the land is only this, that they should be murdered or crucified or their hands and their feet should be cut off on opposite sides or they should be imprisoned; this shall be as a disgrace for them in this world, and in the hereafter they shall have a grievous chastisement.
R
R_not
Guest
Well, it seems that a fatwa has been issued that says that muslims can hack into sites that question/discuss islam. As usual - they don’t want anyone to discuss islam or else they might find out that their ‘religion’ has a lot of problems with it!! Anyone with a tiny bit of common sense can see the problems with islam! And wherever it is allowed to rule the country they have the worst human rights abuses. But, sssshhh, even the UN has decreed that no one is to associate that with islam!
Anyway, here is the article:
don’t discuss islam, or else we will hack into your website!
I hope our web owners know about this and take the proper precautions.
**Non-Muslims in Malaysia have been warned by state rulers not to question the supremacy of Islam or the special privileges given to the Malay Muslim majority there. The Muslim rulers have said that questioning of Islam and the superior standing of Islam “can lead to disunity and racial strife that can undermine the peace and harmony”. In other words just shut up, convert or live like a dhimmi.
This week a fatwa issued by a committee from the highest authority in Sunni Islam, Egypt’s Al-Azhar University in Cairo has stated that Muslims have the right under Islam to hack into the websites of non-Muslims that are fighting back in the information war.
Approximately two months ago the Human Rights Council at the United Nations had banned any criticism regarding Sharia Law and human rights in the Islamic world. Muslims are obviously very worried that the ugly truth about Islam is getting out to more and more people, which means that we are doing a good job. Keep up the good work everyone!**
Anyway, here is the article:
don’t discuss islam, or else we will hack into your website!
I hope our web owners know about this and take the proper precautions.
**Non-Muslims in Malaysia have been warned by state rulers not to question the supremacy of Islam or the special privileges given to the Malay Muslim majority there. The Muslim rulers have said that questioning of Islam and the superior standing of Islam “can lead to disunity and racial strife that can undermine the peace and harmony”. In other words just shut up, convert or live like a dhimmi.
This week a fatwa issued by a committee from the highest authority in Sunni Islam, Egypt’s Al-Azhar University in Cairo has stated that Muslims have the right under Islam to hack into the websites of non-Muslims that are fighting back in the information war.
Approximately two months ago the Human Rights Council at the United Nations had banned any criticism regarding Sharia Law and human rights in the Islamic world. Muslims are obviously very worried that the ugly truth about Islam is getting out to more and more people, which means that we are doing a good job. Keep up the good work everyone!**
A
abucs
Guest
Planten, your words only make sense if you accept that the Jews put Jesus on trial for claiming to be God, or the equal of God.
Do you accept this ?
If you don’t then your words don’t make sense.
If you do, then the next question is why did the Jews, 2000 years ago put Jesus on trial for claiming to be the equal of God ?
Surely if you accept this happening then the claim (or reported claim) of Christ’s divinity goes back to the time of Jesus and the apostles, among the Jews of Israel, and not as is so often claimed (without any evidence) from Pagan Romans centuries later.
???
T
TomaszA
Guest
Many Muslims are very kind folks who are sincerely trying to please God. I can respect such earnest desire, however I can’t agree with the teachings of Islam that flagrantly contradict what Jesus and those before Him taught.
B
brownjt
Guest
Yes he was I guess…He was the promised one the one that the old testmanent talks about. But he was more - I believe he knew that his message of salvation would resonate with the gentiles - in the world beyond - and it has. Jesus was a jew but his own rejected him - we have many instances in the NT when he called the pharisees vipers and talked about their internal corruption while at the same time outwardly being pious and holy. He was a supernatural type of priest and tapped into the human heart and spirit. His rejection of wealth, care for the poor and sick and humble - well read these accounts. They bring us closer to what God wanted us to be - like him, I know your fastings for the poor and the alms you give to the poor are applauded by God. Excuse my humor, please (american) but I am sure Mohammed says to God - look see what people do…and Jesus is happy as well!
B
brownjt
Guest
brownjt, That is a good post. I would prefer what Jesus said.
…
Let us believe what you have said. Okay.
Yes, according to the bible. Okay. But how did it paved the way for Muhammad? Give some reference please.
Without a father there could be no son etc etc. If we believe that Mohammed was a prophet in the Abrahamic tradition - which the catholic catechism says - ask these catholics:then it follows that mohammed followed in the footsteps of paul and christ and the others. Whether we all agree or not, mohammed, jesus, and david are spiritual and literal off-spring of Abraham and it follows that all the jews, the christians and the muslims all have a witness for God.
** That is correct. But no use. Christians do not accept muhammad as a ny prophet and they do not believe the good words of the Quran in praise of Jesus and Mary. So what can i do? I will not use the words of Quran about Jesus. i would rather use the info about Jesus from the bible.**
J
jen_fla
Guest
you are choosing to deny parts of your religion or you are choosing to mislead us. please go tell the clerics of iran and saudi arabia they have it all wrong. get muslims to start a petition to stop the practice of stoning. if you do that, then i will believe you.
in quran it says:
025.068
YUSUFALI: Those who invoke not, with Allah, any other god, nor slay such life as Allah has made sacred except for just cause, nor commit fornication; - and any that does this (not only) meets punishment.
PICKTHAL: And those who cry not unto any other god along with Allah, nor take the life which Allah hath forbidden save in (course of) justice, nor commit adultery - and whoso doeth this shall pay the penalty;
SHAKIR: And they who do not call upon another god with Allah and do not slay the soul, which Allah has forbidden except in the requirements of justice, and (who) do not commit fornication and he who does this shall find a requital of sin;
the penalty is spelled out in authentic hadiths that for adulterers it is flogging and for married ones it is stoning. so there is no contradiction. the hadiths expand upon details, but did not contradict.
i am not going to argue this with you anymore. i have posted authentic hadiths on this over and over. i would like the other readers to note that when other muslims agreed that stoning was proper punishment, you did not correct them.
i am also get sick of debating anything with you. when you can’t defend you just deny.
J
jen_fla
Guest
maybe i am having an off day, but this makes no sense to me. so are you saying that if someone shares with you something they have learned about mohammed from hadiths, then you consider it an attack. and because in your mind it is an attack, you think it is ok to come back with the attack of Jesus having been married, even if we all know that was not true? did i get that right?
all i notice from this is that:
- once again, you do not mention anything about the horrible hadith i posted
- and worse you made no comment about the horrific quote i gave that another muslim made.
R
R_not
Guest
They are successfully getting sanctions in the UN to shut down discussions of islam worldwide. They, for now, are non-binding but all it would take is more intimidation via terrorism, lawsuits, etc to make them binding. They also are successful at attacking (terrorism, lawsuits, just down right mafia-style thuggery) companies, the media and others who put out books, videos, or even hint at any discussion of islam here in the USA.
I am only going to post a few of the articles there are more and probably more that are recent in what the muslims are successfully getting passed in order to shut down free speech. Mostly the countries who follow this sort of sanctions are the more socialistic countries of Europe, Canada, and such. Our own government has tried to dissuade these sorts of sanctions. But, even our own mainstream media is in appeasement mode when it comes to the crimes also.
UN shutting down free speech in regards to discussing islam
The UN and muslims trying to outlaw the spread of Christianity
Article about muslims wanting to train our reporters in how to report muslim news - basically censoring that they are muslims shouting ‘allahu akbar’ when committing crimes and other things such as that.
UN banning free speech
UN banning free speech when refering to muslim countries and sharia law, and its human rights abuses
As usual the articles are numerous and there are many more, but I don’t want to overwhelm people.
And as far as them overpopulating via uncontrolled birth rates - well, that came out of muslim’s mouths.
Article about the document, The Project, found stating their stealth jihad
The Project in English
Vatican says muslims have more kids
Uncontrolled birth rates and immigration in France (it is going on in other nations as well, Geert Wilders talks about it in his movie, and document to his Parliament).
The problem is that we just think islam is only a theological thing. It is not. It is as political as our Republican/Democrat parties. It has laws like our Constitution that they want to replace, by the way with their sharia law. They don’t necessarily care if we all convert, but they do want us to accept subjugation if we don’t convert (or die).
Their sharial laws not only rule their countries, it rules their selves too right down to their potty behavior. It is all encompassing and all invasive.
And by the way, in the end, all theological discussions come down to - you are bashing them because I can guarantee you that you will run circles around the koran and hadiths, and their ‘prophet’ mohammed. This is why they have to censor all discussion of it with non-muslims. None of them have yet proven that the Bible is corrupted because the only one that asserted it was an illiterate pagan - mohammed.
I am only going to post a few of the articles there are more and probably more that are recent in what the muslims are successfully getting passed in order to shut down free speech. Mostly the countries who follow this sort of sanctions are the more socialistic countries of Europe, Canada, and such. Our own government has tried to dissuade these sorts of sanctions. But, even our own mainstream media is in appeasement mode when it comes to the crimes also.
UN shutting down free speech in regards to discussing islam
The UN and muslims trying to outlaw the spread of Christianity
Article about muslims wanting to train our reporters in how to report muslim news - basically censoring that they are muslims shouting ‘allahu akbar’ when committing crimes and other things such as that.
UN banning free speech
UN banning free speech when refering to muslim countries and sharia law, and its human rights abuses
As usual the articles are numerous and there are many more, but I don’t want to overwhelm people.
And as far as them overpopulating via uncontrolled birth rates - well, that came out of muslim’s mouths.
Article about the document, The Project, found stating their stealth jihad
The Project in English
Vatican says muslims have more kids
Uncontrolled birth rates and immigration in France (it is going on in other nations as well, Geert Wilders talks about it in his movie, and document to his Parliament).
The problem is that we just think islam is only a theological thing. It is not. It is as political as our Republican/Democrat parties. It has laws like our Constitution that they want to replace, by the way with their sharia law. They don’t necessarily care if we all convert, but they do want us to accept subjugation if we don’t convert (or die).
Their sharial laws not only rule their countries, it rules their selves too right down to their potty behavior. It is all encompassing and all invasive.
And by the way, in the end, all theological discussions come down to - you are bashing them because I can guarantee you that you will run circles around the koran and hadiths, and their ‘prophet’ mohammed. This is why they have to censor all discussion of it with non-muslims. None of them have yet proven that the Bible is corrupted because the only one that asserted it was an illiterate pagan - mohammed.
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planten
Guest
yes, if some one starts scrutinising the Hadith and comes to the conclusion that the prophet Muhammad was a pedeophile and murderer and womaniser and killer and liar then I will consider it an attack. In that case I have a similar right to look for anything bad in the bible NT to ward of that type of treatment. Otherwise I do not mind people trying to learn Quran and Hadith.
**No need to start another thread. Just briefly post your problem (Hadith) again. But remember that if you have any problem with the Quran then post that first. i will not entertain any problem with Hadith before Quran.
It is not my duty to go to Iran or saudiArabia to preach to them. They should learn their lessons themsleves. rather i could give you all the proofs and send you to Iran to explain all things to them. Would you go? or would you go along with me to Iran? Let me know please.**
C
cathopologist
Guest
R_not, i typically do not condone the angry comments you post (although they do have a certain degree of truth in most), but i will have to concede to the truth. The U.N is deliberately trying to curb non-Muslims from questioning that faith, or attempt to make an academic exegesis of Islam’s holy texts.
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planten
Guest
That was an extra long post. Could not understand. The best is that the christians (Catholics) should behave themselves and not abuse any one. The Muslims will co-operate (reciprocate).
R
R_not
Guest
You mean your hadiths that say this
I. thievery and slavery
Ishaq:510 “We ask Thee for the booty of this town and its people. Forward in the name of Allah.’ He used to say this of every town he raided.”
Ishaq:327 “Allah said, ‘A prophet must slaughter before collecting captives. A slaughtered enemy is driven from the land. Muhammad, you craved the desires of this world, its goods and the ransom captives would bring. But Allah desires killing them to manifest the religion.’”
33:50 - “Prophet, We have made lawful to you … and the slave girls whom God has given you as booty.”
Vol. 7-#137 Narrated Abu al-Khudri: “We got female captives in the war booty and we used to do coitus interruptus with them. So we asked Allah’s messenger about it and he said, “Do you really do that?” repeating the question thrice, “There is no soul that is destined to exist but will come into existence, till the Day of Resurrection.””
And this one where mohammed was against freeing of a slave:
Vol. 3-#765
Narrated Kuraib: the freed slave of Ibn 'Abbas, that Maimuna bint Al-Harith told him that she manumitted a slave-girl without taking the permission of the Prophet. On the day when it was her turn to be with the Prophet, she said, “Do you know, O Allah’s Apostle, that I have manumitted my slave-girl?” He said, “Have you really?” She replied in the affirmative. He said, “You would have got more reward if you had given her (i.e. the slave-girl) to one of your maternal uncles.”
II.
murderer/continual war
2:216-217 Fighting is prescribed for you, and ye dislike it. But it is possible that ye dislike a thing which is good for you and that ye love a thing which is bad for you. But God knoweth, and ye know not.
Tabari IX:69 “Killing disbelievers is a small matter to us.”
Tabari VIII:141 “The battle cry of the Companions of the Messenger of Allah that night was: ‘Kill! Kill! Kill!’”
Bukhari:V5B59N512 “The Prophet had their men killed, their woman and children taken captive.”
This one is particularly telling - it has not only murder, but lying and cunning in order to kill:
Ishaq:368 “Ka’b’s body was left prostrate [humbled in submission]. After his fall, all of the Nadir Jews were brought low. Sword in hand we cut him down. By Muhammad’s order we were sent secretly by night. Brother killing brother. We lured him to his death with guile [cunning or deviousness]. Traveling by night, bold as lions, we went into his home. We made him taste death with our deadly swords. We sought victory for the religion of the Prophet.”
Ishaq:288 “The Quraysh said, ‘Muhammad and his Companions have violated the sacred month, shed blood, seized property, and taken men captive. Muhammad claims that he is following obedience to Allah, yet he is the first to violate the holy month and to kill.’”
Tabari VII:97 “The morning after the murder of Ashraf, the Prophet declared, ‘Kill any Jew who falls under your power.’”
Bukhari:V1B1N6 “Just issue orders to kill every Jew in the country.”
III
pediphilia and lust
Sahih Muslim Book 008, Number 3310:
'A’isha (Allah be pleased with her) reported: Allah’s Apostle (may peace be upon him) married me when I was six years old, and I was admitted to his house when I was nine years old.
This one goes into the moments before mohammed got Aisha, a little girl of 9, I won’t print it here - I find it disgusting since this little girl had no idea what was about to happen: Sahih Bukhari 5.234
Qur’an 33:51 “You may have whomever you desire; there is no blame.”
Tabari IX:147 “A eunuch named Mubur was presented to Muhammad along with two slave girls. One he took as a concubine, the other he gave to Haasn.” (concubine means: a woman, or in mohammed’s case - a girl, with whom a man cohabits without being married)
IV
torture
Tabari VIII:122
Ishaq:515 “The Prophet gave orders concerning Kinanah to Zubayr, saying, 'Torture him until you root out and extract what he has. So Zubayr kindled a fire on Kinanah’s chest, twirling it with his firestick until Kinanah was near death. Then the Messenger gave him to Maslamah, who beheaded him.”
I think that planten needs to take a look at the title of this thread. I know it is hard not to ‘notice’ all the violence in the koran and hadiths when talking about islam in the other threads - but this thread is specifically set up for bashing islam. BUT!! How can one bash islam if ITS OWN TEXTS ARE FULL OF THE VIOLENCE and the deeds of the muslims worldwide show us that they are following the koran?! We do not do these things and muslims around the world do these things to this very day!
There are so many more surahs and hadiths that it is impossible to list them all concerning murder, pediphilia, slavery, torture, etc. I don’t know how planten is missing all of them.
I will end this post on this note:
Who is the good muslim in this case:
- “I was ordered to fight all men until they say ‘There is no god but Allah.’” prophet Mohammad’s farewell address, March 632
- “I was ordered to fight the people until they say there is no god but Allah, and his prophet Mohammed.” Osama bin Laden, Nov 2001
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planten
Guest
** R_Not, Yes, I meant the secret relation between Jesus and Mary Magd which church was able to hide and they kept it in special Codes. Nobody understood those things except the specialists. Da Vinci Code had been proved and they say that Jesus had a son too from that secret marriage.
That was made known about 200 years ago. Now recently they have discovered a burial site for the Jesus family and they say that son of Jesus is there in that burial place.
Then there are more reliable news that Jesus after recovering from the ordeal of the cross, he fled eastward in search of his lost sheep of Israel. That was necessary. he was a Jew and he was given the duty to preach (tend) to the sheep of Israel only which he did very well in Palestine. But the sheep in Palestine did not listen to him.
He said that he had other sheep too to whom he should have to go. And those sheep were in Afghanistan. So he went to that area and his followers helped him by saying that he had gone up to the father. That was a safety valve so that nobody goes looking for Jesus. He was a condemned man, could be caught and put on the cross again.
That is a long history of christianity, travels of Jesus. You read our hadith and I will read your bible. Don’t mind please.**
That was made known about 200 years ago. Now recently they have discovered a burial site for the Jesus family and they say that son of Jesus is there in that burial place.
Then there are more reliable news that Jesus after recovering from the ordeal of the cross, he fled eastward in search of his lost sheep of Israel. That was necessary. he was a Jew and he was given the duty to preach (tend) to the sheep of Israel only which he did very well in Palestine. But the sheep in Palestine did not listen to him.
He said that he had other sheep too to whom he should have to go. And those sheep were in Afghanistan. So he went to that area and his followers helped him by saying that he had gone up to the father. That was a safety valve so that nobody goes looking for Jesus. He was a condemned man, could be caught and put on the cross again.
That is a long history of christianity, travels of Jesus. You read our hadith and I will read your bible. Don’t mind please.**
R
R_not
Guest
About 578 years before Islam came along, Christians were warned against Islam by both Jesus and the Apostle Paul. Jesus warned us about the many false prophets who would follow Him (Matthew 16:11-12) . Paul warned us when he wrote:
**“But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach (to you) a gospel other than the one that we preached to you, let that one be accursed!” (Galatians 1:8). **
Since Islam’s message differs fundamentally from the Gospel, it is clear what Paul taught regarding the fate of Muhammad and those who propagate Islam. Islam bypasses the sacrificial mediating work Jesus did for believers on the cross, thus negating the forgiveness of sins. This condemns non-believers to die in their sins. Jesus said; **“That is why I told you that you will die in your sins. For if you do not believe that I AM, you will die in your sins.”
John 8:24 **
Jesus also predicted the current dilemma of Muslim intolerance and fanaticism. He warned that the day was likewise coming when religious zealots will kill Christians and think they are offering a service to God
"They will expel you from the synagogues; in fact, the hour is coming when everyone who kills you will think he is offering worship to God. They will do this because they have not known either the Father or me."(John 16:2-4).
Dear Christians and Muslims. Jesus is committed to winning the spiritual Holy War. He wants nobody to suffer an eternity without God, confined to a godless place. Know this, that God Himself is calling out those Muslims with good hearts! Jesus (Isa) Himself is appearing to many. A few years ago, Al-Jazeera reported that roughly six million Muslims are leaving Islam and becoming followers of Jesus every year in Africa. In 2005, roughly 250,000 Muslims converted to Christianity in Iran. Between 2003-2005, roughly 1 million Muslims converted to Christianity in Arab countries. Muslims are coming to Christ in North America, too, although not to the same extent as in Muslim countries. Tens of millions are embracing Jesus every few years in India and in China. Chinese missionaries are now gearing up to bring the Gospel of Jesus to dark Muslim places.
(I must say that the Chinese are a very, brave group!)
**“But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach (to you) a gospel other than the one that we preached to you, let that one be accursed!” (Galatians 1:8). **
Since Islam’s message differs fundamentally from the Gospel, it is clear what Paul taught regarding the fate of Muhammad and those who propagate Islam. Islam bypasses the sacrificial mediating work Jesus did for believers on the cross, thus negating the forgiveness of sins. This condemns non-believers to die in their sins. Jesus said; **“That is why I told you that you will die in your sins. For if you do not believe that I AM, you will die in your sins.”
John 8:24 **
Jesus also predicted the current dilemma of Muslim intolerance and fanaticism. He warned that the day was likewise coming when religious zealots will kill Christians and think they are offering a service to God
"They will expel you from the synagogues; in fact, the hour is coming when everyone who kills you will think he is offering worship to God. They will do this because they have not known either the Father or me."(John 16:2-4).
Dear Christians and Muslims. Jesus is committed to winning the spiritual Holy War. He wants nobody to suffer an eternity without God, confined to a godless place. Know this, that God Himself is calling out those Muslims with good hearts! Jesus (Isa) Himself is appearing to many. A few years ago, Al-Jazeera reported that roughly six million Muslims are leaving Islam and becoming followers of Jesus every year in Africa. In 2005, roughly 250,000 Muslims converted to Christianity in Iran. Between 2003-2005, roughly 1 million Muslims converted to Christianity in Arab countries. Muslims are coming to Christ in North America, too, although not to the same extent as in Muslim countries. Tens of millions are embracing Jesus every few years in India and in China. Chinese missionaries are now gearing up to bring the Gospel of Jesus to dark Muslim places.
(I must say that the Chinese are a very, brave group!)
J
jen_fla
Guest
so where in the Bible did you read that Jesus was married?
and i am glad you do not mind people trying to learn quran and hadith…
**No need to start another thread. Just briefly post your problem (Hadith) again. But remember that if you have any problem with the Quran then post that first. i will not entertain any problem with Hadith before Quran.
It is not my duty to go to Iran or saudiArabia to preach to them. They should learn their lessons themsleves. rather i could give you all the proofs and send you to Iran to explain all things to them. Would you go? or would you go along with me to Iran? Let me know please.**
i personally would not feel safe, so i was asking if you would feel safe. or in other words are you confident in YOUR belief that muslims should follow quran only and not hadith?
so you want me to repost what you could go back and find for yourself. again you are tap dancing around the issue so i am not surprised your post evaded the whole point.
i am tired right now, but i will bring this up again. no more evasions.
- Status