Islam

[jen_fla]

jen fla, i never passed anybad remark about R_Not and Jesus until R_Not started the abuse. I did the same. can you not see what is going on? Then you find me at fault. Is that your jugdment?

I intentionally used the word Kafir for R_Not because I found that its proper use may be understood. People had some doubts about the word Kafir. I had an example in R_Not so I designated the word to that person. I did not initiate any trouble. R_Not did it. So R_Not may have it.

r_not may have what? you called her kafir which is threatening.

rikkk, I could not follow which way you are heading. You are with me or against me. I have clearly told the friends that there are two types of enemies of Islam or any religion. The internal enemies and the external enemies.

The internal enemies are called Munafiq (Hypocrites). They say they are Muslims.

The external enemies are called kafirs (The antagonistic hostile disbelievers). They do not say they are believers or Muslims. They wage all types of war against the religion.

If you check up properly then you will find that it is only such people who are to be killed during war. Any peaceful disbeliever is never to be harmed. Let him/her not believe in Muhammad. Let him be a disbeliever. No one is to harm any calm and peaceful person. Such are the innocent non-believers. They are not kafirs.

I hope you will consider the meanings now.** If any one is to be fought or killed, he would be a Kafir. Not any innocent person.**

you can not kill someone for disagreeing with you. we are to elevate each other, not sink humanity into darkness and pain.

planten, this is difficult and my head isn’t too clear right now so bear with me trying to express myself.

from your quote above, it is obvious you love God and will defend islam even if it it means denying parts of your faith or throwing logic out the window. you feel you are being attacked and it is a human reaction to fight back (hopefully just with words)…

please understand, that i do not hate you nor do i want to abuse you or say unkind things. while i can’t speak for r_not i am sure she doesn’t hate you either, but hates the ideas you have been taught. we BOTH believe in God. some arabic Christians call him Allah as well. you are a creation of this one loving God. you have been taught what you have been taught and i am afraid that you believe God does not want you to use your brain which he gave you.

your intelligence is a gift from God. he wants you to question things so that you can arrive at Truth. God does not lie. He is not a deceiver. deceiving comes from the evil one. mohammed was a deceiver. he has taken you down a path that distorts the teachings of God.

i pray for you. i pray for all muslims. i want you to live in peace and love for EVERY creature on this planet. yes, even the atheists and pagans. have mercy on them. while it is sometimes very hard to follow, Jesus teaches us to love our enemies even those that are abusing us.

i am not sure if you have any children, but let’s suppose you do. as a father would you want them to throw their arms around your neck, love you and share their feelings and thoughts with you? i would think every parent would want that.

what if you told your child that if they did not love you they would be punished or possibly killed? what if you told your child not to ask certain things when all they wanted to do was to get to know their father better?

the child growing up in the latter environment is more like a slave living in fear than a child living in a family of love.

which is better? God is love and mercy. God gave us free will so that we may choose to love him. we get very upset on this forum because mohammed has turned God into something he is not. we can’t help but lose our tempers from time to time because, well as i see it, your religion is a form of child abuse. it is keeping the precious souls of muslims from knowing the Truth.

you are not my enemy.

now i know you have been told we worship 3 Gods which we have told you over and over again, that that simply is not true. trinity is difficult to understand, but not impossible to explain.

are you open to having an honest intellectual conversation about this issue? aren’t you curious to know how we defend ourselves when we say we believe in ONE God?

i am not saying you have to agree, but don’t you think being educated on the subject would make you a better person? i hope you don’t see us as enemies, but even if you did, wouldn’t you want to have the correct information on what your “enemy” or peaceful neighbor believes?

 

[dolphinlove]

You have misquoted. The same angel appeared to Muhamamd and told him about Mary to have an illustrous son who will be a messenger to the children of Israel…
Angel is the same. The God who sent the angel is also the same. The message is the same, (Good news for Mary). You are trying to confuse the matter…

How have i misquoted?
This is the quote out of the bible i put on the thread:
2 Cor 14 There is nothing astonishing in this; even Satan disguises himself as an angel of light.
This quote is as clear as day. It clearly states that satan can appear as an angel of light.
Now the problem is, as i already explained to you, the angel Gabriel that appeared to Mary is not the same ‘angel’ that appeared to muhammad.
The angel that appeared to muhammad almost kill him. What sort of angel of God would do that? none! The ‘angel’ that appeared to muhammad pressed on him so hard, he almost stopped breathing. you call that an angel?
Not only that, the angel Gabriel relayed some great news to Mary, which i will explain after your next silly quote.

Please do not use Quran. Where in the bible did angel appear to Mary? can you tell me. there is no where. Now only the appearance of angel to Joseph is left. I deny that. I say that was the devil who visited Joseph. What can you do?

Firstly, dont tell me what i should and shouldnt use. Who do you think you are? Secondly, here is where the real angel Gabriel appeared to Mary.

Luke 1:
**26 In the sixth month the angel Gabriel was sent by God **to a town in Galilee called Nazareth,
27 to a virgin betrothed to a man named Joseph, of the House of David; and the virgin’s name was Mary.
28 He went in and said to her, ‘Rejoice, you who enjoy God’s favour! The Lord is with you.’
29 She was deeply disturbed by these words and asked herself what this greeting could mean,
30 but the angel said to her, ‘Mary, do not be afraid; you have won God’s favour.
31 Look! You are to conceive in your womb and bear a son, and you must name him Jesus.
32 He will be great and will be called Son of the Most High. The Lord God will give him the throne of his ancestor David;
33 he will rule over the House of Jacob for ever and his reign will have no end.’
34 Mary said to the angel, ‘But how can this come about, since I have no knowledge of man?’
35 The angel answered, 'The Holy Spirit will come upon you, and the power of the Most High will cover you with its shadow. And so the child will be holy and will be called Son of God.

Now, i have pointed out where the real angel Gabriel went to Mary, and the angel himself said that Jesus is the Son of the Most High. He also says that his reign will have no end. What could this mean you ask? It means what we have been saying to you all along, Jesus IS the SON of God, and that his church will never end.

Here is the quote in the bible proving this.
Mat 16
18 So I now say to you: You are Peter and on this rock I will build my community. And the gates of the underworld can never overpower it.

So as you can see planten, the angel Gabriel has said somethings that contradict what is in your quran.
So, as we know, there can only be one angel Gabriel. Why would he change his mind and give a completely different story to muhammad? Why was he so gentle and loving to Mary and forceful with muhammad.
The reason is, the angel that appeared to Mary was from God, an angel of God would not hurt a human created by God. An angel that does hurt a human would not be from God, God would not allow the angel to touch us in a violent manner.

**It is a good sermon of your own wishes. It need not be true. **.

Oh but what i said is true. You just refuse to believe the truth.

I do not know about that. Sorry. And I do not have to believe all that you say.

I quoted it for you previously, but ill do it again for you.
Mat 16
18 So I now say to you: You are Peter and on this rock I will build my community. And the gates of the underworld can never overpower it.
There ya go!
And as for not believing anything i say, well, im not the one on here that has been proven time and time again of lying now, have i?

 

[planten]

2 Cor
13 These people are counterfeit apostles, dishonest workers disguising themselves as apostles of Christ.
14 There is nothing astonishing in this; even Satan disguises himself as an angel of light.

**Yes, let us start from here. There was a lightening and paul was blinded by the satan appearing as an angel with lightening. Paul was an enemy of Jesus. If I write more, friends will be blinded with rage.

Read verse 13 more carefully. “dishonest workers disguising themselves as apostles of Christ.” Muhammad did not disguise as apostle of christ. Please have some sense and some full stop on your supposed thinking. It was paul who appeared as an apostle of Christ. The case is very clear for you. But you are all heading in the wrong direction.

Paul came in the name of Jesus. Muhammad came in the name of God. Then do not deny Muhammad. Deny paul first.**

Now planten, this is the problem. The Angel Gabriel came to Mary and told her she is going to be the mother of our saviour

.

Is this in the bbile? Please show me.

Then, the supposed same angel, Gabriel, appeared to muhammad with a completely different story to what appears in the bible

.

That is untrue. I do not know in the bible if angel appeared to Mary and told her about Jesus. So please show what appers in the bible.

Now, the obvious problem is, the angel in the bible is not the same angel that appeared to muhammad. We can only believe one or the other. And there is no way im believing muhammad.
As you can see where i quoted in the bible, the devil is capable appearing as an angel of light. So what conclusion does that lead to?
Conclusion:
The REAL angel Gabriel appeared to Mary. The angel that appeared to muhammad was the devil in disguise.
There is nothing the devil would love more than the Son of Man being denied.
And in order to do this, what did the devil do, formed his own religion to ‘attempt’ to eradicate the church Jesus started.
Although the devil has managed to fool some of God’s sons and daughters, most have chosen to stay loyal to Jesus.
After all, he did say his church will never end.

I feel I have already replied to all of the above in anothe rpost. So no need to repeat. You are a sinful person who says devil disguised as an angel and came to Muhammad. I feelthat devil appeared to Joseph the Carpentar and told him some funny story to lay off, a few inches away from Mary…

 

[jen_fla]

regarding above post:

dolphinlove,

i pray you have more patience than i do.

how can you converse with someone that clearly does not read your posts?

 

[dolphinlove]

**Yes, let us start from here. There was a lightening and paul was blinded by the satan appearing as an angel with lightening. Paul was an enemy of Jesus. If I write more, friends will be blinded with rage.

Read verse 13 more carefully. “dishonest workers disguising themselves as apostles of Christ.” Muhammad did not disguise as apostle of christ. Please have some sense and some full stop on your supposed thinking. It was paul who appeared as an apostle of Christ. The case is very clear for you. But you are all heading in the wrong direction.

Paul came in the name of Jesus. Muhammad came in the name of God. Then do not deny Muhammad. Deny paul first.**

.

Is this in the bbile? Please show me.

.

That is untrue. I do not know in the bible if angel appeared to Mary and told her about Jesus. So please show what appers in the bible.

I feel I have already replied to all of the above in anothe rpost. So no need to repeat. You are a sinful person who says devil disguised as an angel and came to Muhammad. I feelthat devil appeared to Joseph the Carpentar and told him some funny story to lay off, a few inches away from Mary…

Ok, you have just displayed your heightened ignorance and lack of understanding of things especially bolded for you to read.
I clearly bolded and outlined for you the references where the angel Gabriel appeared to Mary. Did you get that, i ** BOLDED** it.

You show me how Paul was the enemy of Jesus, now, as you always say to quote things from the quran, now quote from the bible ANYTHING you can find that Paul is the enemy of Jesus.
I know you will leave this out, because from your last lot of replies, you left out things cause you know you have no answer, and your nonsense religion cannot provide you with answers, so you create these lies.
I will deny muhammad, because he denied God’s first book, and instead listened to some so called angel that named himself Gabriel.

Is this in the bbile? Please show me.

I mean it, are you serious. I will say this to you AGAIN. I bolded it and have shown you its in the bible, i will post it AGAIN since you failed to understand it the first time.

Luke 1:
26 In the sixth month the angel Gabriel was sent by God to a town in Galilee called Nazareth,
27 to a virgin betrothed to a man named Joseph, of the House of David; and the virgin’s name was Mary.

Did you get that, or do i have to post it AGAIN?

That is untrue. I do not know in the bible if angel appeared to Mary and told her about Jesus. So please show what appers in the bible.

AGAIN, i will post it for you
Luke 1:
26 In the sixth month the angel Gabriel was sent by God to a town in Galilee called Nazareth,
27 to a virgin betrothed to a man named Joseph, of the House of David; and the virgin’s name was Mary.

I feel I have already replied to all of the above in anothe rpost. So no need to repeat. You are a sinful person who says devil disguised as an angel and came to Muhammad. I feelthat devil appeared to Joseph the Carpentar and told him some funny story to lay off, a few inches away from Mary…

Im a sinful person? Mate, seriously, your the one that is sinful.
You create lies to justify your religion, that is sinful.
I dont have to lower myself to that level, because i do follow the TRUTH!.

 

[dolphinlove]

regarding above post:

dolphinlove,

i pray you have more patience than i do.

how can you converse with someone that clearly does not read your posts?

Believe me, im about to blow my stack, ive had a bad month and im really not in the mood for his nonsense. But when it comes to it, i will defend my saviour, he comes first and above any problem that i may have.
Please pray for planten, as he is more than lost now.

 

[jen_fla]

Believe me, im about to blow my stack, ive had a bad month and im really not in the mood for his nonsense. But when it comes to it, i will defend my saviour, he comes first and above any problem that i may have.
Please pray for planten, as he is more than lost now.

praying for you both!

i too was about to lose my temper for you when i read his reply, but then i thought he could be 11 years old for all we know. only God can remove the poison he has been taught.

btw, i have never used emoticons in my life until i came here. always thought they were kind of gee, but now i’m rather fond of the lil guys for helping me not to implode.

http://www.21softs.com/emoticons/images/blowup.gif

 

[inJESUS]

Yes, let us start from here. There was a lightening and paul was blinded by the satan appearing as an angel with lightening.

yes, you could consider it anything you like, that is why the apostles tested Paul’s preaching and they found it the same message taught by Jesus and i believe Peter knew if Paul was against Jesus or not more than you…on the other hand, WHO was it who told Muhammad that the spirit he encountered is not satan as Muhamad correctly thought? it was Khadija…since when is the testimony of one woman enough in Islam? and HOW did khadija know it was an angel? by testing the spirit? how? by telling muhammad to sit on her right thigh (the spirit remained), then left thigh (the spirit remained), and then she finally unveiled her face and boom the angel suddenly felt ashamed and eft so Mrs. all-knowing Khadija gave her precious angelic fatwa? is that how one tests an angel? is that even something a rational human being can believe in? an angel ashamed of a woman’s face but not her under parts??

so instead of questioning Paul who was backed up by the rest of the apostles, you better question the testimony of a man who claimed to see a spirit that no one saw or heard and who opposed all previous scriptures …a spirit that was ashamed of Khadija’s face but not her under parts…seems that spirit liked the under parts more than her face and she just decided it was an angel…mashallah…

Paul was an enemy of Jesus.

 

[planten]

A religion that grants its believers the right to condemn others but does not tolerate criticisms from those outside its sphere is honestly, for the lack of a better word, cowardly.

Cathopologist, criticism is different to abuse. I have replied very well to all your problems and I have replied well to the abusers too. There is no cowardly behaviour. You seem to lack intelligence, making open abuse as if it is criticism. Is it your cleverness? What shall I call it? Dishonesty?
:

“Show me just what Muhammad brought that was new and there you will find things only evil and inhuman, such as his command to spread by the sword the faith he preached. God is not pleased by blood - and not acting reasonably is contrary to God’s nature. Faith is born of the soul, not the body. Whoever would lead someone to faith needs the ability to speak well and to reason properly, without violence and threats… To convince a reasonable soul, one does not need a strong arm, or weapons of any kind, or any other means of threatening a person with death.” - Emperor Manuel II Palaiologos

Now more abuse and accusations. The religion Islam was not spread by sword. Even Jesus said that “those who work by sword will be killed by the sword”. So you seem to be ignorant about your own prophet Jesus. The Pagans had been using the sword against the Muslims for 18 years. they were repelled by the sword. Why are you crying and complaining and lamenting?. Are you a pagan? Emperor Emanual must have been ignorant and the pope who quoted the Emperor was more ignorant.

The christian theory of love is a false theory and it is wrong too. God need not be using love. Love is not so necessary. It is justice which is more necessary. So your love falls short of the real needs. t

 

[planten]

r_not may have what? you called her kafir which is threatening.

jen fla, It may appear to be threatening. The reason is her attitude and bad activity.

you can not kill someone for disagreeing with you. we are to elevate each other, not sink humanity into darkness and pain.

I am not killing any one. But I am informing some one that he/she is on the bad lines (Kufr).

planten, this is difficult and my head isn’t too clear right now so bear with me trying to express myself.

from your quote above, it is obvious you love God and will defend islam even if it it means denying parts of your faith or throwing logic out the window. you feel you are being attacked and it is a human reaction to fight back (hopefully just with words)…

That may be true. I do not like the way things are being discussed with lot of abuse. I follow all reasons and logic. I deal with the abusers in some way. I have my faith intact. But I do not allow other people tomake undue use of my good faith and in return they give me abuse.

The christians have takenundue advantage of the fact that all Muslims love Jesus and Mary and they respect the bible too. So they start abusing our prophet Muhammad as if they have a licence to abuse him. then I do not use my own book or faith. Then I look into the faults / weak points of the bible.

please understand, that i do not hate you nor do i want to abuse you or say unkind things. while i can’t speak for r_not i am sure she doesn’t hate you either, but hates the ideas you have been taught

.

Believe me, no one has taught me any bad ideas. When my faith and my prophet is attacked, I can look into the bible NT and find all sorts of supposed things such as a son or a begotten son there. I can challenge anything, including the pregnancy of Mary. I can challenge the appearance of angel to Joseph the Crapentar the real father of Jesus. i.e. because the christians are taught that devil appeared to Muhammad. So why not it should be devil who appeared to that Joseph too.

that is all beside what my religion teaches me. There is nothing bad in my religion against any one. I also do not hate any one. Any Hindu or christian or Sikh or Jew. i do not hate any one. In fact I would offer my life to save any one of them if they were attacked.

we BOTH believe in God. some arabic Christians call him Allah as well. you are a creation of this one loving God. you have been taught what you have been taught and i am afraid that you believe God does not want you to use your brain which he gave you

.

If I restrict you to come by the scripture only then you will be surprised and trapped. There is constant advice in the Quran for all to use their sense (wisdom). Many verses are there. Youcan check up. But what about the bible? Does it say anything?

your intelligence is a gift from God. he wants you to question things so that you can arrive at Truth. God does not lie. He is not a deceiver. deceiving comes from the evil one. mohammed was a deceiver. he has taken you down a path that distorts the teachings of God

.

You have spoiled your show by that one bad sentence. So all your sermon is some kind of cheating (decietful).

 

[planten]

Cont…d for jen fla…

i pray for you. i pray for all muslims. i want you to live in peace and love for EVERY creature on this planet. yes, even the atheists and pagans. have mercy on them. while it is sometimes very hard to follow, Jesus teaches us to love our enemies even those that are abusing us

.

No need to love your enemies all the time. Try to be just and honest… that would be enough What Jesus said was good for that time only. He was in very much trouble and in very bad situation due to being under Roman rule and due to being faced by his own hostile nation (The Kafirs). So he could not advise anything better than what he did. That was excellent teaching for success…

i am not sure if you have any children, but let’s suppose you do. as a father would you want them to throw their arms around your neck, love you and share their feelings and thoughts with you? i would think every parent would want that.

what if you told your child that if they did not love you they would be punished or possibly killed? what if you told your child not to ask certain things when all they wanted to do was to get to know their father better?

I cannot understand what you mean. Some of your things may be true. But let us leave that line.

the child growing up in the latter environment is more like a slave living in fear than a child living in a family of love.

which is better? God is love and mercy. God gave us free will so that we may choose to love him. we get very upset on this forum because mohammed has turned God into something he is not. we can’t help but lose our tempers from time to time because, well as i see it, your religion is a form of child abuse. it is keeping the precious souls of muslims from knowing the Truth.

Your post is useless because I have now come to know that you do not know anything about Muhammad. So it is better for you never to comment on his life unless you have studied what good things he had done. He is the best example of the men on earth. Try to just read that book by some one “The 100 greatest men of the world”. Muhammad has been noted at number one place in that book.

If you do not read that and make a mend then I will understand that you are in fact a biased person full of hatred for the man of God.

Also, Muhammad brought the Quran. You must read the book by Maurice Bucaile “Bible, Science and Quran”. That book is not written by me. Let us have your opinion please.

now i know you have been told we worship 3 Gods which we have told you over and over again, that that simply is not true. trinity is difficult to understand, but not impossible to explain.

are you open to having an honest intellectual conversation about this issue? aren’t you curious to know how we defend ourselves when we say we believe in ONE God?

For some reason you are in trouble and you have to believe in One God. But you have the three gods too. They seem to be gods sitting in the One God. That is your problem. I won’t bother you with that any more.

I am not saying you have to agree, but don’t you think being educated on the subject would make you a better person? i hope you don’t see us as enemies, but even if you did, wouldn’t you want to have the correct information on what your “enemy” or peaceful neighbor believes?

Of course no sensible Muslim will agree to your trinity. I am ready to discuss everything sensibly. But I see that some members abuse and the others keep quiet. Or they support the abuser. then where is love or justice?? It is all false dogmas of the church.

 

[swariffin]

Cont…d for jen fla…

.

No need to love your enemies all the time. Try to be just and honest… that would be enough What Jesus said was good for that time only. He was in very much trouble and in very bad situation due to being under Roman rule and due to being faced by his own hostile nation (The Kafirs). So he could not advise anything better than what he did. That was excellent teaching for success…

I cannot understand what you mean. Some of your things may be true. But let us leave that line.

Your post is useless because I have now come to know that you do not know anything about Muhammad. So it is better for you never to comment on his life unless you have studied what good things he had done. He is the best example of the men on earth. Try to just read that book by some one “The 100 greatest men of the world”. Muhammad has been noted at number one place in that book.

If you do not read that and make a mend then I will understand that you are in fact a biased person full of hatred for the man of God.

Also, Muhammad brought the Quran. You must read the book by Maurice Bucaile “Bible, Science and Quran”. That book is not written by me. Let us have your opinion please.

For some reason you are in trouble and you have to believe in One God. But you have the three gods too. They seem to be gods sitting in the One God. That is your problem. I won’t bother you with that any more.

Of course no sensible Muslim will agree to your trinity. I am ready to discuss everything sensibly. But I see that some members abuse and the others keep quiet. Or they support the abuser. then where is love or justice?? It is all false dogmas of the church.

Geez, Planten. Last time you added Da Vinci Code in things that Islam believe (beside Quran, Hadiths, and Syaria Laws). Now you add “100 greatest men of the world”. What is next?

 

[cathopologist]

Cathopologist, criticism is different to abuse. I have replied very well to all your problems and I have replied well to the abusers too. There is no cowardly behaviour. You seem to lack intelligence, making open abuse as if it is criticism. Is it your cleverness? What shall I call it? Dishonesty?

planten, only a person of low I.Q would accuse another of lacking intelligence. Instead of backing your illogical claims from reputable sources, you have quoted from fictional and anti-Christian books on Christianity. You should not depend on lies. You must depend on the Bread of Life.

Now more abuse and accusations. The religion Islam was not spread by sword. Even Jesus said that “those who work by sword will be killed by the sword”. So you seem to be ignorant about your own prophet Jesus. The Pagans had been using the sword against the Muslims for 18 years. they were repelled by the sword. Why are you crying and complaining and lamenting?. Are you a pagan? Emperor Emanual must have been ignorant and the pope who quoted the Emperor was more ignorant.

Actually there is ample proof Islam spread by the sword. Oral and written traditions from Jewish and M.E Christians passed down from generation to generation describing the horror Muslims inflicted on their lands. The Emperor was spot on about your religion. Mohammad didn’t bring anything new, but distorted the old. As the Emperor stated, **“To convince a reasonable soul, one does not need a strong arm, or weapons of any kind, or any other means of threatening a person with death.” **God does not force people to believe in Him. We are given Free Will - the right to choose to believe in Him or not. Mohammad taught his followers to force the inhabitants of lands he pillaged to convert or die or be humiliated by paying tax. Many of Mohammad’s followers were from warring Arabian tribes and it was in their culture to spill blood. This has changed very little to this day. If Mohammad’s god is truly merciful and just, he would have taught Mohammad to lay down arms and teach his people to become peaceful and loving to their neighbours. But it was the exact opposite, which is why millions around the world doubt his religion is from God.

The christian theory of love is a false theory and it is wrong too. God need not be using love. Love is not so necessary. It is justice which is more necessary. So your love falls short of the real needs. t

When you love, your senses are heightened. When you hate, your senses are lowered. Surely you know that by now? Open up your senses and see for yourself; who is suffering?

If you stick to this rule: Love is not so necessary, then you are in danger of losing your soul, even before you depart this world.

 

[Catholic_JIMMY]

Just like all messengers of God received messages from God, i.e. Abraham and Moses and Jesus and many others, similarly Muhammad also received messages from God. There is no need to look into any other way. That would be illegal. There will be no end to the troubles in religion.

Already, because the christians deny that any angel came to Muhammad, I have also started denying the coming of the angel to Mary and Joseph the carpentar, father of Jesus, and Zakariya. I do not believe that there is any angel for the christians.

So what use is it to indulge in false things? Better drop it please.

If you can get me a source that disproves what I heard then show me. I do not appreciate people quoting me without answering my questions. Please, show me a source and can everyone just calm down. The Atheists will just use our divisions against us.

 

[jen_fla]

planten, do you really believe your words when you say, “love is not so necessary”?

…really? or is this another example of Christian says “up” so you say “down”… we say “hot” you say “cold”… for no other reason than to resist?

 

[planten]

This has probably been mentioned already, but I am new here. I have heard that Mohammed’s teachings were based off certain Gnostic beliefs. I am not completely sure if this is true, or what Gnostic beliefs were incorporated into Islam. If anyone else knows about this subject please discuss it on this thread. I can not find a decent source and I refuse to use wikipedia.

Thank You Yeshua Messiah (Jesus Christ)

**You have asked for reply to your querry. Please don’t believe all you hear. It is good that you are not completely sure. Keep trying to find the truth. Thanks. I hope it is not for me to reply to your querry. **.

 

[planten]

planten, do you really believe your words when you say, “love is not so necessary”?

…really? or is this another example of Christian says “up” so you say “down”… we say “hot” you say “cold”… for no other reason than to resist?

**I do believe that Justice is well above love. Unbridled love could spoil all. In justice, love will naturally be there. One name of Allah is lover (Wadood). We all love him and He loves his creatures. Even birds and animals all sing in His praise.

Please be calm. I did not deny love. But you seem to ignore the Justice which is equally important. But as I see, in church system, there is no news about Justice. We have a Just God who will take account of the deeds of every one wih Justice. He will not spare any criminal without Jusice.

You seem to have some new formula of bypassing the affect of the bad deeds because you have some one who carries the burden of your sins. That is not any kind of love or Justice. It is against all norms.**

 

[planten]

Geez, Planten. Last time you added Da Vinci Code in things that Islam believe (beside Quran, Hadiths, and Syaria Laws). Now you add “100 greatest men of the world”. What is next?

** Yes, please read all of those things and believe in them. Believe in Da Vince Code and believe in the contents of the book “!00 great men…” Also see the book “Bible, Science and Quran”, written by a qualified christian.

If you keep on denying the truth for a very long time, or you ignore the truth when it is coming to you then you will never have any truth. Truth will forsake you for good. So, I suggest that you read the 100 Great men and Bible Science and Quran. Leave the Da Vinci Code.

Let me know what you found in those books. Thanks. You do not know what you are missing.**

 

[cathopologist]

** Yes, please read all of those things and believe in them. Believe in Da Vince Code and believe in the contents of the book “!00 great men…” Also see the book “Bible, Science and Quran”, written by a qualified christian.

If you keep on denying the truth for a very long time, or you ignore the truth when it is coming to you then you will never have any truth. Truth will forsake you for good. So, I suggest that you read the 100 Great men and Bible Science and Quran. Leave the Da Vinci Code.

Let me know what you found in those books. Thanks. You do not know what you are missing.**

You’d be better off a Scientologist than an Ahmadiyya. :whacky:

 

[jen_fla]

**I do believe that Justice is well above love. Unbridled love could spoil all. In justice, love will naturally be there. One name of Allah is lover (Wadood). We all love him and He loves his creatures. Even birds and animals all sing in His praise.

Please be calm. I did not deny love. But you seem to ignore the Justice which is equally important. But as I see, in church system, there is no news about Justice. We have a Just God who will take account of the deeds of every one wih Justice. He will not spare any criminal without Jusice.

You seem to have some new formula of bypassing the affect of the bad deeds because you have some one who carries the burden of your sins. That is not any kind of love or Justice. It is against all norms.**

i am calm. how about you start making an honest attempt at addressing some serious issues of islam. again i am glad you ignore some of mohammed’s teachings, but in regards to them all you seem to be able to say is that you do not know how or why most present day muslims believe what they do when the teachings are right in everyone’s face.

i have pointed out several islamic sources that say the exact opposite of what you believe. all you are doing is evading the issues and making up nonsense about what Christians believe.

i am done conversing with you regarding Catholicism because it is obvious you don’t want to learn. you have stated you will not read long posts nor will you click on any links. fine.
as to my religion (which is not what this particular thread is about) i will leave you with this:

1 Cor 13: 13
As it is, these remain: faith, hope and love, the three of them; and the greatest of them is love

1 Jn 4:8
Whoever fails to love does not know God, because God is love.

but hey, you wrote, “love is not so necessary.”

hmm can’t imagine where a religion that teaches that would come from.

God is just and merciful. you are wrong to think the Church ignores all aspects of justice.

justice is “the most important of the cardinal virtues” taken from here:

newadvent.org/cathen/08571c.htm

and (name removed by moderator) said it best: “Justice without love or mercy is oppression”.

but when you hear truth you ignore it. this is why we don’t understand the mercy in killing an adulterer. you take away their chance of repentance.

in the quran it is stated to chop off the hands of those that steal. i have brought that up several times. you are mistaken to assume that when we do not agree with the punishment that condones the act. stealing is a sin and goes against God’s will, however, is there not a better way in dealing with a thief than to hack off their hands?

no muslim gave me a response to this question, so i shall ask again:

if you had a son or daughter that had a weak moment and gave into peer pressure and stole a CD do you think taking their hand is just? aren’t you lessening their chance at being able to work thus making them a further burden on society? this “just” act could very well make the rest of his family and community suffer. and you think “Allah is exalted in power?”

could you not find a more merciful way to punish your child?

and if so, what you would do for this child, would you not do for your neighbor’s child?

from quran:

005.038
YUSUFALI: As to the thief, Male or female, cut off his or her hands: a punishment by way of example, from Allah, for their crime: and Allah is Exalted in power.
PICKTHAL: As for the thief, both male and female, cut off their hands. It is the reward of their own deeds, an exemplary punishment from Allah. Allah is Mighty, Wise.
SHAKIR: And (as for) the man who steals and the woman who steals, cut off their hands as a punishment for what they have earned, an exemplary punishment from Allah; and Allah is Mighty, Wise.