Islam

[Cyber_Knight]

LOL… Taqqiya… oh taqqiya… , muslim, please stop pretending a catholic/christian…

 

[brotherhrolf]

Wood floats and so must witches according to Monty Python. Which is to say if it has feathers, webbed feet, and quacks like a duck, it must be a duck! inJESUS has done a superlative job of theologically refuting Islam. I’m still waiting for the Islamic historians who can call their hawk a dove. Repeat after me - Islam is a religion of peace…I have yet to read any post which explains (and I will limit myself here) the period of 650-750 CE (see I was being polite!) as being a peaceful expansion of Islam. We’re long on theological breast beating but rather short on history.

 

[pro_universal]

brother,

you said:

Repeat after me - Islam is a religion of peace…I have yet to read any post which explains (and I will limit myself here) the period of 650-750 CE (see I was being polite!) as being a peaceful expansion of Islam

Here I will post a primary source, written by Christians, to explain the reception of the Muslim armies in formerly “christian” lands:
fordham.edu/halsall/source/642Egypt-conq2.html

When Amr took full possession of the city of Alexandria, and settled its affairs, that infidel, the governor of Alexandria, feared, he being both prefect and patriarch of the city under the Romans, that Amr would kill him; therefore he sucked a poisoned ring, and died on the spot. But Sanutius, the believing dux, made known to Amr the circumstances of that militant father, the patriarch Benjamin, and how he was a fugitive from the Romans, through fear of them. Then Amr, son of Al-Asi, wrote to the provinces of Egypt a letter, in which he said: “There is protection and security for the place where Benjamin, the patriarch of the Coptic Christians is, and peace from God; therefore let him come forth secure and tranquil, and administer the affairs of his Church, and the government of his nation.” Therefore when the holy Benjamin heard this, he returned to Alexandria with great joy, clothed with the crown of patience and sore conflict which had befallen the orthodox people through their persecution by the heretics, after having been absent during thirteen years, ten of which were years of Heraclius, the misbelieving Roman, with the three years before the Muslims conquered Alexandria.

In contrast, here is what happened when the Europeans captured Jerusalem during the crusades:
fordham.edu/halsall/source/fulk2.html

Count Raymond and his men, who were attacking the wall on the other side, did not yet know of all this, until they saw the Saracens leap from the wall in front of them. Forthwith, they joyfully rushed into the city to pursue and kill the nefarious enemies, as their comrades were already doing. Some Saracens, Arabs, and Ethiopians took refuge in the tower of David, others fled to the temples of the Lord and of Solomon. A great fight took place in the court and porch of the temples, where they were unable to escape from our gladiators. Many fled to the roof of the temple of Solomon, and were shot with arrows, so that they fell to the ground dead. In this temple almost ten thousand were killed. Indeed, if you had been there you would have seen our feet colored to our ankles with the blood of the slain. But what more shall I relate? None of them were left alive; neither women nor children were spared.

Let’s see…the Muslim general of the day invites the Christian bishop back and guarantees him free practice of religion, whereas the Crusaders spare “neither women nor children”.

Is this enough to get us to stop bashing muslims and focus on being Catholic again?

 

[Cyber_Knight]

pro_universal:

It’s impossible to admit because I have actually read their book. If you do the same, you’ll also find it hard to justify your opinions.

LOL… I was born, grew up and living among them, I know perfectly whats their opinion toward non muslims, I know perfectly what they are doing toward non muslims if they have power over minority, I know perfectly what the dhimmitude means… and you are now asking me to read their book? I have more than just a book to be read ya’now

Have a little more faith in your Church. Muslims are not a threat to us, but ignorance and intolerance certainly are threats. And they come from within.

I do have faith for my church, church teach me about humanity. Muslims are not threat. Islam is a threat to humankind and humanity. Yup they teach ignorance about the Bible and Christian(and Jews) and intolerance to other faiths… hey… you just make a good statement to defend our side!!!

injesus, They don’t. Like I said, if you ask any Muslim, they will tell you what Muslima is saying. I have no idea how you arrived at the conclusion that most Muslims think the Koran commands them to kill.

You mean the verse that is saying " Slay them(unbeliever) wherever you find them" ??

Well, what I’ve seen here is a Muslim coming to this board and explaining her religion, and you denying that she actually represents her own faith. That’s not listening.

aahhh… whats the good after explaining the religion of peace and then on the other part of the world they do violance? in the name of god, in the name of islam?

What’s silly is judging the truth of a post on what I claim my faith to be. Claims are easy to make; it’s what you do that makes them true or false.

Thats right, claims are easy to make, no wonder you are playing taqqiya here lol. ONce again YES, what you do that makes them true or false and you just proof that you are a false catholic.

What a relief.

 

[Reuben_J]

pro_universal:

What’s silly is judging the truth of a post on what I claim my faith to be. Claims are easy to make; it’s what you do that makes them true or false.

THE APOSTLES’ CREED
**1. I believe in God the Father, Almighty, Maker of heaven and earth:

1. And in Jesus Christ, his only begotten Son, our Lord:
2. Who was conceived by the Holy Spirit, born of the Virgin Mary:
3. Suffered under Pontius Pilate; was crucified, dead and buried: He descended into hell:
4. The third day he rose again from the dead:
5. He ascended into heaven, and sits at the right hand of God the Father Almighty:
6. From thence he shall come to judge the living and the dead:
7. I believe in the Holy Spirit:
8. I believe in the Holy Catholic Church: the communion of saints:
9. The forgiveness of sins:

1l. The resurrection of the body:

1. And the life everlasting. Amen**

Peace to you brother pro_universal,

The Apostles’ Creed. Catholics are proud to profess this. This is also being professed by other Christians of different denominations, but perhaps with slight changes in one or two words. The general meaning and the thrust of the creed doesn’t change much though.

I’d say you settle this with those Christians here who are doubting you on your professed religion.

Let me ask you. Do you believe in the Apostles’ Creed above or not? Please answer this so that this issue will be settled. No one then will doubt that you are a Christian if you say you believe in the Apostles’ Creed.

Thank you.

Reuben

 

[inJESUS]

Hey Cyber :

Slay them wherever you find them…let me reply instead of our muslim bro coz i already know his answer : it was given in a special context !! not to be applied now!!

my question is : i can give a hundred verse of killing and slaying …if all these are not to be applied FROM THE LAST,UNIVERSAL MESSAGE OF ALLAH, then why on earth put them in quran instead of hadith??

If what to be applied UNIVERSALLY is NOT TO KILL NON-BELIEVERS, why doesnt the quran say so a hundred times instead of killing??? maybe thats why millions of muslims do not understand the message of peace?? after all allah failed to express the peace that Jesus did ! Jesus is greater ! Jesus Akbar

 

[Justice2006]

Note: APOSTLES’ CREED is in Black.

1. I believe in God the Father, Almighty, Maker of heaven and earth:

This makes sense.

1. And in Jesus Christ, his only begotten Son, our Lord:

Well, Jesus is not the only son in the Bible. There are tons of Sons and all of them actually as per idiom of the Jewish language, are metaphorically sons of God, just like how all Jews are gods. And in the same Bible, Jesus is referred as Son of Man too…more than “son of God”.

1. Who was conceived by the Holy Spirit, born of the Virgin Mary:

God going into a woman’s womb make no sense. How can God become His own creature? Holy Spirit that was sent by God is not itself God. It was a creation just like how we all are His creation and ahve soul. Adam was born without mother and even without mother. From what? from God’s spirit ofcourse.
Holiness of God going into a mother’s womb and coming out like as we came out by making mother impure for nine months is a fairytale–myth because Jesus Christ was a man and not God.

1. Suffered under Pontius Pilate; was crucified, dead and buried: He descended into hell:

God, the Eternal, the Absolute, Who Has power power over all things, Who created us all…was crucified by by his own creation?
Is is conceivable? No way…sorry…it is a fairytale.

1. The third day he rose again from the dead:

Well, since God cannot die because He is Eternal there is no question of Him dying and then raising.

1. He ascended into heaven, and sits at the right hand of God the Father Almighty:

Who ascended? God? God ascended into heaven to sit on whose right hand?
God is sitting on His own right hand? What are you talking?

1. From thence he shall come to judge the living and the dead:

Not Jesus Christ. But the ONLY ONE GOD who is Eternal and Invisible will Judge us all, on the day of Judgement.

As far Jesus Christ coming again…well he is a man and not God.

1. I believe in the Holy Spirit:

It is O.k to believe in Holy Spirit. This spirit itself is not God nor share any part of God. This Spirit was in existence even before the birth of Jesus, as per the Bible.

1. I believe in the Holy Catholic Church: the communion of saints:

The belief of Catholic church is belief of Catholic Church only. And like any other church, Catholics too can believe whatever they like but this does not mean all who follow or read Bible must believe in Catholic Church.

As Catholics have a right to believe in their own church, others too have full right to interpret their Bible and believe in whatever they feel justified in their eyes.

1. The forgiveness of sins:

Only God Almighty can forgive sins depending upon the nature of the sin. Can Missolini, Hitler too will be forgiven by the God of “Love”? I don’t think so, they did not receive any appropriate punishment in this world and cannot be punished if they are alive according to their terrible crime…thus they MUST BE punished on the Day of Judgement for killing millions of God’s choosen people.
Love of God is only for those who follow the path of God to the best of their ability. There will be no salvation for Criminals like Hitler or Missolini though they were Catholic/Christians.

1l. The resurrection of the body:

Yes we all will be resurrected to receive the heaven or hell based on our good deeds/bad deeds. But with God’s Ultimate Justice. Only He knows who deserves what. An atom size good deed or bad deed of us will not be neglected by Him.

1. And the life everlasting. Amen

The everlasting life is for those who follow the commandments of God sent by Him through His Prophets from time to time to guide the their people/or whole humanity. No salvation/eternal life who does not follow commandments. Mere faith means nothing. You have to have a tru faith first and then at the same time a proof of having firm belief in that faith in practicle life.

 

[freesoulhope]

yes we are all the sons of god, but “Jesus” is the son that god wants us to be. " This is my son jesus, with him i am well pleased" God bless

 

[GD1960]

Hello all

I have been reading with some interests the debate in this thread and have to say I’m very impressed with the way Muslima has defended her faith under quite considerable pressure.

She made a comment about a few Muslims giving a bad image of themselves and their religeon (presumably she was referring to the current crop of fundamentalists, extreemists, jihadists whatever you want to call them)

Historically we christians are less than innocent in the religeous persecution department if we are completely honest with ourselves, a perfect example would be the 12 centuary crusaders who I believe committed some henious acts of cruelty and barbarism.

However I think it would also be fair to say that the vast majority of these christian soldiers were illiterate and uneducated who probably wouldn’t be able to read their own name if they saw it written down let alone the bible, so I would imagine their knowledge of the teachings of Christ would have been at best limited, also this was the 12th century which in general was a much more barbarous age than today.

I also think the crusades were as much a political war hidden behind a religeous cause, no doubt these 12th century soldiers would have told many times by their so called betters that the infidel muslims were the scum of the earth and worthy of no mercy many times on their way to the holy land and there lies their inspiration for wanton violence and barbarism.

What concerns me about our present day muslim jihadists is where their inspiration comes from, Men like Osama Bin Laden and co are I believe intelligent, articulate, educated men who seem to get their inspiration directly from the Koran which after reading some quotes from that book I dont find surprising.

I know most muslims will tell me I’ve misinterpreted these quotes and taken them out of context (which may well be true) but if I can misinterperate them then surely others could also.

So my point is this within the muslim religeon who are the real fundamentalists, is it the moderates who seem to see good in every verse from the Koran endorsing killing, mutilation, pologamy, wife beating etc?. or is the jihadists who seem to take these verses literally and act accordingly ?

 

[Justice2006]

inJESUS:

Hey Cyber :

Slay them wherever you find them…let me reply instead of our muslim bro coz i already know his answer : it was given in a special context !! not to be applied now!!

my question is : i can give a hundred verse of killing and slaying …if all these are not to be applied FROM THE LAST,UNIVERSAL MESSAGE OF ALLAH, then why on earth put them in quran instead of hadith??

If what to be applied UNIVERSALLY is NOT TO KILL NON-BELIEVERS, why doesnt the quran say so a hundred times instead of killing??? maybe thats why millions of muslims do not understand the message of peace?? after all allah failed to express the peace that Jesus did ! Jesus is greater ! Jesus Akbar

Mr. inJesus,

It is really sad that your I.D is inJesus but your posts are not according to the spirit/teachings of Jesus.

In your above post you are criticising the verse of the Koran. This shows either you are totally ignorant of the context of the verse or you are deliberately twisting/borrowing the ready-made anti-Islam ideas from anti-Islam websites.

If you only read the context of that verse and the commentry/tafsir, you will never raise such objection towards Islam.

The very name Islam is derived from the Arabic word SaLaMa, which means ‘Peace’ and Islam means, gaining peace through submitting your will to the Will of God Almighty.And this was the religion of all the Prophets of God because they all had submitted their will to the Will of God.

Will of God = All the Commandemnts of God.

Your mistreatment with the verses of the Koran, can only makes you look foolish in the eyes of those who know what in fact Islam is.

Your knowledge of Islam is bogus and your posts are filled with hatred. You first change your I.D. because you are giving a bad name to your own faith and in whom you “claim” to believe.

Did Jesus or your Chruch tell you to criticise people without knowing properly?

 

[inJESUS]

Hello Justice, obviously you are muslim, am i correct?

 

[Justice2006]

GD1960:

Historically we christians are less than innocent in the religeous persecution department if we are completely honest with ourselves, a perfect example would be the 12 centuary crusaders who I believe committed some henious acts of cruelty and barbarism.

Mr. inJesus, do you agree with the above statement?

 

[inJESUS]

Mr. inJesus,

It is really sad that your I.D is inJesus

but your posts are not according to the spirit/teachings of Jesus.

In your above post you are criticising the verse of the Koran. This shows either you are totally ignorant of the context of the verse or you are deliberately twisting/borrowing the ready-made anti-Islam ideas from anti-Islam websites.

If you only read the context of that verse and the commentry/tafsir, you will never raise such objection towards Islam. i did not say this verse is to be taken out of context…read my entire post…it was general .

The very name Islam is derived from the Arabic word SaLaMa

, which means ‘Peace’ and Islam means, gaining peace through submitting your will to the Will of God Almighty.And this was the religion of all the Prophets of God because they all had submitted their will to the Will of God. islam = submission .

Will of God = All the Commandemnts of God.

did mohammad apply all the commandmants of the Biblical God?

Your mistreatment with the verses of the Koran, can only makes you look foolish in the eyes of those who know what in fact Islam is.

refute.

Your knowledge of Islam is bogus and your posts are filled with hatred. You first change your I.D. because you are giving a bad name to your own faith and in whom you “claim” to believe.

elaborate please.

Did Jesus or your Chruch tell you to criticise people without knowing properly?

i know perfectly well muhammad/islam is anti-Christ/heresies and yes the Bible asks meto expose false prophets…if i dont it’s a sin.

 

[inJESUS]

Justice2006:

Mr. inJesus, do you agree with the above statement?

yes with certain limits :

If muslims didnt threat, there wouldnt have been crusades .
Second : Christians are known by their fruits…if the fruit is not Christian, then they are not true Christians.
Third : attack the teachings not sinful people.

 

[inJESUS]

Justice, it is obvious that you did not read this thread…possible that you joined under a different name now…but nevermind…are you muslim?

 

[Justice2006]

Mr. inJesus,

You are more interested in the messenger than the message because you seem “deeply” indoctrinated in your “faith” that does not allow you to see what others REALLY say or believe.

It is really a sad situtation with you.

Well, I am sure you will suspend my membership now after hearing this truth.

But keep in mind Mr. inJesus, the more you talk ill about any religion without proper knowledge, it is you who will be seen as foolish and ignorant. And no wonder why so many Catholics are now rejecting Catholicism and embracing Islam**

 

[Justice2006]

inJESUS:

yes with certain limits :

If muslims didnt threat, there wouldnt have been crusades .
Second : Christians are known by their fruits…if the fruit is not Christian, then they are not true Christians.
Third : attack the teachings not sinful people.

Mr. inJesus,
You mean, those Jews who were expelled from the Christian lands or mass massacred by the Holy infallible Papacy, were actually Muslim?

Is that the reason Papacy apologised after 2000 years to Jews, instead of Muslims?

Mr. inJesus, you are really a good joker.

 

[inJESUS]

Justice2006:

Mr. inJesus,

You are more interested in the messenger than the message because you seem “deeply” indoctrinated in your “faith” that does not allow you to see what others REALLY say or believe.

It is really a sad situtation with you.

Well, I am sure you will suspend my membership now after hearing this truth.

But keep in mind Mr. inJesus**, the more you talk ill about any religion without proper knowledge, it is you who will be seen as foolish and ignorant. And no wonder why so many Catholics are now rejecting Catholicism and embracing other Islam

Listen, as usual, i talk, and people like you give irrelevant answers…i already said that theHoly Bible considers mohammad a false prophet and an anti-Christ…History shows mohammad a heretic who adopted the heretic nazaritic teachings…

AM NOT INTERESTED IN MUSLIM VIOLENCE IN ASMUCH AS AM INTERESTED IN THEIR HERETIC DOCTRINES…do you want to discuss this or not?

i wont ask a third time coz obviously you are muslim

 

[inJESUS]

Justice2006:

Mr. inJesus,
You mean, those Jews who were expelled from the Christian lands or mass massacred by the Holy infallible Papacy, were actually Muslim?

Is that the reason Papacy apologised after 2000 years to Jews, instead of Muslims?

Mr. inJesus, you are really a good joker.

you contradicted yourself here if what happened was correct then why did the Pope apologize?

 

[Justice2006]

Mr. InJesus,

Were those Jews, Muslims?

Why Jews were mass massacred and thrown out from Papacy ruled areas?