Islam

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Justice2006:
Mr. inJesus,
Mr/Ms. Justice2006,
Your posts are really laughable. By now you must be thinking to suspend my membership of this forum.
no one including InJESUS thinking about your membership status. The more you show your true color, the happier we are… 👍
But keep in mind, if you don’t read atleast your own Bible first objectively and sincerely, you will remain in your tiny world of ignorance.
InJesus already explained it very well… No Catholics/Chritians against his/her statements so far. Why you, muslims should object it? it is because his/her thinking is not appropriate with the Muslims mind 😃
No Prophet of God is going to tell you personally what in fact was revealed and what God actually intended. He already sent His messages…and He gave you the intellect to think, ponder and reflect. If you canot see the light then it is your mistake.
You mean Mr. Muhammad? the messenger of God? where is the proof the he was a messenger of God? SHOW ME!!!
Do you think all Protestants are wrong? Do you think their Bible interpretations, logic and reasonoing is wrong and only Catholic Church is on the right path or have a right to interpret Bible and only your papacy is under the direct guidance of Holy Spirit thus “nfallible”??
Hey… this is a catholic forum… and we are talking about Catholic vs Islam
Mr. inJesus, don’t act like a foolish person. Open up your tiny closed mind and see the whole as it is and not as you wish to see from your bias/jaundiced eyes.
I must say that word should be mouthed to you own 👍

You have done a great job inJesus. I would like to call pro_universal… where is he/she? he/she supposed to write down and admit the apostle’s creed that Reuben has asked… :cool:
 
I want to be objective here…i quoted 2 quranic verses about Christians who consider Jesus son of God…

please , i hope anyone will say what they understand from them…just to show our muslim brother that it doesnt need much intelligence to grasp its “spirit”. thx
 
inJESUS said:
“And the Jews say: Uzair is the son of Allah; and the Christians say: The Messiah is the son of Allah; these are the words of their mouths; they imitate the saying of those who disbelieved before;** may Allah destroy them; how they are perverted!”**

Certainly they disbelieve who say: Surely Allah, He is the Messiah, son of Marium [Mary - “Jesus is the messiah”]; and the Messiah said: O Children of Israel! serve Allah, my Lord and your Lord. Surely whoever associates (others) with Allah, then Allah has forbidden to him the garden, and his abode is the fire; and there shall be no helpers for the unjust

ANY CHRISTIAN HERE, WHAT DO YOU UNDERSTAND FROM THESE VERSES?

Mr. inJesus,

Again, asI told you, you are an ignorant person of even your own Bible/traditions, let alone other religions/Holy Books.

The Koran was revealed in approximate 23 years of Islamic calender (Hijri).

In order to know what the Koran has to say about any topic, you must first gather all the related verses and the commentry of early learned scholars, in order to KNOW exactly what Islam has to say, first. Then you can make up your mind whether to accept it or not.

No one is twisting your arm or “baptising” you forcefully to accept without knowing Islam/Koran.

I already gave you some references about the **People of the Book ** in the Koran. Below are some verses from them, from **Surah Al-Imran ** (The Family of Imran):

Not all of them are alike: Of the People of the Book are a portion that stand (For the right): They rehearse the Signs of Allah all night long, and they prostrate themselves in adoration.

They believe in Allah and the Last Day; they enjoin what is right, and forbid what is wrong; and they hasten (in emulation) in (all) good works: They are in the ranks of the righteous.

Of the good that they do, nothing will be rejected of them; for Allah knoweth well those that do right.
The Koran-Surah Al-Imran (The Family of Imran) 3:113-115
 
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Justice2006:
Mr. inJesus,

Again, asI told you, you are an ignorant person of even your own Bible/traditions, let alone other religions/Holy Books.

The Koran was revealed in approximate 23 years of Islamic calender (Hijri).

In order to know what the Koran has to say about any topic, you must first gather all the related verses and the commentry of early learned scholars, in order to KNOW exactly what Islam has to say, first. Then you can make up your mind whether to accept it or not.

No one is twisting your arm or “baptising” you forcefully to accept without knowing Islam/Koran.

I already gave you some references about the **People of the Book ** in the Koran. Below are some verses from them, from **Surah Al-Imran ** (The Family of Imran):

Not all of them are alike: Of the People of the Book are a portion that stand (For the right): They rehearse the Signs of Allah all night long, and they prostrate themselves in adoration.

They believe in Allah and the Last Day; they enjoin what is right, and forbid what is wrong; and they hasten (in emulation) in (all) good works: They are in the ranks of the righteous.

Of the good that they do, nothing will be rejected of them; for Allah knoweth well those that do right.
The Koran-Suran Al-Imran (The Family of Imran) 3:113-115
Bro, yes the quran does not differentiate between orthodox Christians and heretic nasara.

my point is this : who are the people who believe Jesus is Son of God? it is us, Christians…So us Christians are BLASPHEMERS, UNJUST, PERVERTED AND WILL END UP IN HELL.

I REALLY FIND IT AMAZING THAT YOU DO NOT UNDERSTAND SUCH A SIMPLE STATMENT.

As to the qurans complilation, abrogation, lost verses, ecc am sure you know about the hadith about its compilation; the quran was not written by mohammad…he did not correct what the people wrote…the original quran was burnt by Uthman coz it was different than Zaid’s version.

I dont wanna discuss this topic…i asked 2 questions not answered yet…
 
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Justice2006:
Mr. inJesus,

Again, asI told you, you are an ignorant person of even your own Bible/traditions, let alone other religions/Holy Books.

The Koran was revealed in approximate 23 years of Islamic calender (Hijri).

In order to know what the Koran has to say about any topic, you must first gather all the related verses and the commentry of early learned scholars, in order to KNOW exactly what Islam has to say, first. Then you can make up your mind whether to accept it or not.

No one is twisting your arm or “baptising” you forcefully to accept without knowing Islam/Koran.

I already gave you some references about the **People of the Book ** in the Koran. Below are some verses from them, from **Surah Al-Imran ** (The Family of Imran):

Not all of them are alike: Of the People of the Book are a portion that stand (For the right): They rehearse the Signs of Allah all night long, and they prostrate themselves in adoration.

They believe in Allah and the Last Day; they enjoin what is right, and forbid what is wrong; and they hasten (in emulation) in (all) good works: They are in the ranks of the righteous.

Of the good that they do, nothing will be rejected of them; for Allah knoweth well those that do right.
The Koran-Surah Al-Imran (The Family of Imran) 3:113-115
:confused: :confused: :confused: :confused: :confused:
 
Cyber Knight said:

no Cyber, it is not confusing.

we have 2 options : either the quran is contradicting itself
or the nasara are not the Orthodox Christians ( muhammad did a mistake by not differentiating them).
 
A very simple question to Justice:

If us Christians are good and going to paradise, why are there Christians who will go to hell?
clearly coz othodox Christians who believe Jesus is Son of God are NOT the nasara who will go to heaven according to mohamad; he simply made a mistake ; he was confused and he confused you…even his view of Christian teachings is that of the nasara, not the orthodoc Christians.
 
inJESUS said:
“And the Jews say: Uzair is the son of Allah; and the Christians say: The Messiah is the son of Allah; these are the words of their mouths; they imitate the saying of those who disbelieved before;** may Allah destroy them; how they are perverted!”**

Certainly they disbelieve who say: Surely Allah, He is the Messiah, son of Marium [Mary - “Jesus is the messiah”]; and the Messiah said: O Children of Israel! serve Allah, my Lord and your Lord. Surely whoever associates (others) with Allah, then Allah has forbidden to him the garden, and his abode is the fire; and there shall be no helpers for the unjust

ANY CHRISTIAN HERE, WHAT DO YOU UNDERSTAND FROM THESE VERSES?

Please brother, do not shout.

I am a Christian and I profess that Jesus Christ is the Son of the living God. These will be the words out of my mouth. Yes I will feel offended if by saying that somebody is saying I am imitating the saying of those who disbelieved before. Peter, John, James, Mathew and more, were living companions and disciples of Jesus. They preached what they saw and heard. Whether they were believers or not is up to anybody. To me they were believers.

If just because of having this belief, someone asks **Allah to destroy me ** then I feel sorry for that person. It is insulting when he goes no to say that **I am perverted ** for the belief I have. Most probably I cannot do anything to make someone like that to change his mind about me, but I still can pray so that he will not take that attitude toward me.

The rest of the words in the verses sound just like curses - to have my house burnt and for me to be neglected.

Not very promising verses for the Christians, I should say.

May the Lord bless you and keep you, IJ.

Reuben
 
Reuben J:
Please brother, do not shout.

I am a Christian and I profess that Jesus Christ is the Son of the living God. These will be the words out of my mouth. Yes I will feel offended if by saying that somebody is saying I am imitating the saying of those who disbelieved before. Peter, John, James, Mathew and more, were living companions and disciples of Jesus. They preached what they saw and heard. Whether they were believers or not is up to anybody. To me they were believers.

If just because of having this belief, someone asks **Allah to destroy me ** then I feel sorry for that person. It is insulting when he goes no to say that **I am perverted ** for the belief I have. Most probably I cannot do anything to make someone like that to change his mind about me, but I still can pray so that he will not take that attitude toward me.

The rest of the words in the verses sound just like curses - to have my house burnt and for me to be neglected.

Not very promising verses for the Christians, I should say.

May the Lord bless you and keep you, IJ.

Reuben
oh ! so am not the only one who understands BLASPHEMER, UNJUST, PERVERTED, BURN IN HELL as negative!

👍

May the Lord bless you too Reuben.
 
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inJESUS:
Bro, yes the quran does not differentiate between orthodox Christians and heretic nasara.

my point is this : who are the people who believe Jesus is Son of God? it is us, Christians…So us Christians are BLASPHEMERS, UNJUST, PERVERTED AND WILL END UP IN HELL.

I REALLY FIND IT AMAZING THAT YOU DO NOT UNDERSTAND SUCH A SIMPLE STATMENT.

As to the qurans complilation, abrogation, lost verses, ecc am sure you know about the hadith about its compilation; the quran was not written by mohammad…he did not correct what the people wrote…the original quran was burnt by Uthman coz it was different than Zaid’s version.

I dont wanna discuss this topic…i asked 2 questions not answered yet…
Mr. inJesus,

Here to you are showing your ignorance. It requires more time for me to clear all the doubts/objections you raised.

One thing at a time.

Just imagine, prior to your Church there were other groups in the Christiandom. You can call them whatever you like based on your peculiar teachings/traditions of your church. But the fact remains…there were many groups and all of them had different views as to the nature of Jesus and his message.

On the one hand you have your Church view which contradicts all those early previous groups thus you call them heretics. But their heresy is according to your (Church’s) mind/view. In their view you are heretics/idolators.

There is a group called Unitarians, who opposes your view of Jesus. They consider Jesus as a man/Prophet only.

And there is a multitude of various groups of Protestants who like to interpret Bible from their own in order to make some sense because to them your Catholic view is not right view.

So, when you look at this situation, what a man of justice should do? If he go by Catholics who says: The Bible is by no means so easily understood: St. Peter himself tells us that it contains many things: “… hard to be understood …” ( drbo.org/catechism.htm#lesson14 ) he is stuck in the conflicting situtation.
And then your church further says, if you ask:
Question: Do Protestants acknowledge the interpretation of the Church or of any other authority?
No; Protestants hold that anyone who reads the Bible in the proper spirit will be guided by the Holy Ghost in interpretation.

Question: Is this belief of Protestants a sensible one?
No; it is against the Bible, against Tradition, against reason
.

Question:* How is it against reason? *
Because the result of this belief has been that, as many interpretations exist as there are individual thinkers, and many of these interpretations contradict each other; since the Holy Ghost cannot contradict Himself, He cannot be the guide of these interpretations, and therefore, this belief of these Protestants is false.
{ drbo.org/catechism.htm#lesson14 }

From this you can see, all Protestnats are rejected as believers in false interpretation/reasoning because as per your Catechism:

Question:* Whom do we have to interpret the Bible for us? *
The Catholic Church interprets the Bible for us.

Question:* Is it natural that we should have a guide in interpreting the Bible? * Quite natural, just as in America, we have the Supreme Court to interpret the Constitution of the United States. The difference is that the Church is infallible and the Supreme Court is not!

Question:* So the Church cannot make mistakes in interpreting the Bible? *
No, for she is under the guidance of the Holy Ghost.

{ drbo.org/catechism.htm#lesson14 }

Thus for an independent person all these views of your numerous denominations, sects and cults are nonsense because they all blaspheme eachother but all claim to have got Holy Spirit yet ALL of them go in different directions and like to see their opponents in the Hell-fire.

The only solution to this dilemma is to read your Bible, objectively. But when you do an honest research, you will find contradictions, inconsistencies and improbabilities in all versions of the Bibles. These do not allow you to reconcile all the contradictory reports and narrations of Jesus and his own “uttered” words
There is only one way in it and that is to go by the main reason of Jesus’ mission, i.e his Prophet-hood. And that is he came not abolish the law or the Prophets but to fulfill and restore. If you keep/take this main aim of his prophethood and try to reconcile all other reports as much as the texts of the Bibles allow, you will reach to the Koranic conclusion.

Thats why honest and sincere research by the learned people of Christiandom and even from Jews, eventually lead them to embrace Islam as the only left right choice which fulfills the main aim of Jesus Christ (may God’s peace be up on him).
 
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Justice2006:
Mr. inJesus,

Here to you are showing your ignorance. It requires more time for me to clear all the doubts/objections you raised.

One thing at a time.

Just imagine, prior to your Church there were other groups in Christiandom. You can call them whatever you like based on your peculiar teachings/traditions of your church. But the fact remains…there were many groups and all of them had different views as to the nature of Jesus and his message. On the hand you have your Church view which contradicts all those early previous groups thus you call them heretics. But the heresy is according to your (Church’s) mind/view. In thier view you are heretics/idolators.
There is a group called Unitarians, who oppose your view of Jesus. They consider Jesus as man/Prophet only. And there is a multitude of various groups of Protestants who like to interpret Bible from their own in order to make some sense because to them your Catholic view is not right view.
So, when you look at this situation, what a man of justice should do? If he go by Catholics who says: The Bible is by no means so easily understood: St. Peter himself tells us that it contains many things: “… hard to be understood …” ( drbo.org/catechism.htm#lesson14 )
And your church further says, if you ask:
Question: Do Protestants acknowledge the interpretation of the Church or of any other authority?
No; Protestants hold that anyone who reads the Bible in the proper spirit will be guided by the Holy Ghost in interpretation.

Question: Is this belief of Protestants a sensible one?
No; it is against the Bible, against Tradition, against reason
.

Question:* How is it against reason? *
Because the result of this belief has been that, as many interpretations exist as there are individual thinkers, and many of these interpretations contradict each other; since the Holy Ghost cannot contradict Himself, He cannot be the guide of these interpretations, and therefore, this belief of these Protestants is false.
{ drbo.org/catechism.htm#lesson14 }

From this you can see, all Protestnats are rejected as believers in false interpretation/reasoning because as per your Catechism:

Question:* Whom do we have to interpret the Bible for us? *
The Catholic Church interprets the Bible for us.

Question:* Is it natural that we should have a guide in interpreting the Bible? * Quite natural, just as in America, we have the Supreme Court to interpret the Constitution of the United States. The difference is that the Church is infallible and the Supreme Court is not!

Question:* So the Church cannot make mistakes in interpreting the Bible? *
No, for she is under the guidance of the Holy Ghost.

{ drbo.org/catechism.htm#lesson14 }

Thus for an independent person all these views of your numerous denominations, sects and cults are nonsense because they all blaspheme eachother but all claim to have got Holy Spirit yet ALL of them go in different directions and like to see their opponents in the Hell-fire.

The only solution to this dilemma is to read your Bible, objectively. But when you do an honest research, you will find contradictions, inconsistencies and improbabilities in all versions of the Bibles. These do not allow you to reconcile all the contradictory reports and narrations of Jesus and his own “uttered” words
There is only one way in it and that is to go by the main reason of Jesus’ mission, i.e his Prophet-hood. And that is he came not abolish the law or the Prophets but to fulfill and restore. If you keep/take this main aim of his prophethood and try to reconcile all other reports as much as the texts of the Bibles allow, you will reach to the Koranic conclusion.

Thats why honest and sincere research by the learned people of Christiandom and even from Jews, eventually lead them to embrace Islam as the only left right choice which fulfills the main aim of Jesus Christ (may God’s peace be up on him).
Irrelevant; when i prove you wrong, you digress. THIS THREAD IS ABOUT ISLAM…IF YOU ARE INTERESTED WITH CHRISTIANITY THEN FOLLOW THE OTHER THREADS OR POST YOUR OWN.

The nazaritic teachings are heretical…Jesus’ apostles refuted them in their letters…these heretics continued and developed and reached Hijaz and Mecca…thats why you see all their teachings in the quran…i gave Muslima a great link to a great online book in arabic…if you know arabic, then read it…it will show you how the nazaritic heretical teachings ended up in quran.
 
please prey that those who are ignorant are freed from thier refusal to use the reasoning and logic that god gave us. It is true that the truth is scary, because we never want to be wrong, not because God told us somthing. Have you ever played a game called wispers?, its where sombody has a message and its past on from generation to generation, and as it goes along somebody adds thier own ignorant opinion to it so they can either, take control of those who hear it, blur the the truth of it in order to gain power from it, cause sombody to be ignorant of its truth, or to make people think that you alone have the truth since everybody before you came along was saying somthing slightly different.

when cain saw that able had a better offering, his own offering became wanting, it lacked somthing. Intead of excepting the truth and joining in with Gods celebration with able, cain killed him. 🙂
 
So i can conclude here, after toooo many attempts by our muslim brothers, that quran/mohammad did neither respect us Christians who believe Jesus is the Son of God, nor promise us anything beyond hellfire.

So i can assure now, with absolutely no doubt, that those who say islam respect us are either liars or do not know their book or good people who disregard this negativity in quran.

Next step : crucifixion account in quran.

Bible corruption : why allah promises to preserve his books yet allow the corruption of both OT and NT but not the Quran?
why did mohamad attest to the Bible in his hands?

PS: the dead sea scrolls exposed mohammad: the OT we have is the same from thousands of years.
 
oh…i raised another question as well : mohammad claimed to confirm both Moses and Jesus yet contradicted both in many ways…show please please how did mohammad confirm both by opposing them? what God calls shamefull and abhored , allah calls good .

Isaiah answered this when he said : woe to you who see evil good and good evil.

i go now…you have all the time Justice to answer the 3 questions.

Our Lord Jesus’ peace and blessing and love to all of you.
 
Mr. inJesus,

It is you who is jumping up and down and the “Spirit” which you have in you, is not allowing you to listen anything with patience.

Your posts are a disgrace and bad name to your faith.

If you are out on the Net, to sell your idea/faith, then you must listen what public is actually looking for. Your product no matter what how good and perfect is in your mind, means nothing to others. People buy what really makes sense for them. Ignorant people buy false ideas/view. Sincere and truth-seekers buy right thing after doing a good-enuff market research.

If Jesus were here, I am sure he will never appoint you to represent him, because you are not only an ignorant but a deceiver too. Thus he will tell you : “Depart from me, I never knew you” because you are in fact an evil doer and not a true follower of the spirit/essence of Jesus Christ’s message.

Shame on you Mr. inJesus.
 
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Justice2006:
Mr. inJesus,

It is you who is jumping up and down and the “Spirit” which you have in you, is not allowing you to listen anything with patience.

Your posts are a disgrace and bad name to your faith.

If you are out on the Net, to sell your idea/faith, then you must listen what public is actually looking for. Your product no matter what how good and perfect is in your mind, means nothing to others. People buy what really makes sense for them. Ignorant people buy false ideas/view. Sincere and truth-seekers buy right thing after doing a good-enuff market research.

If Jesus were here, I am sure he will never appoint you to represent him, because you are not only an ignorant but a deceiver too. Thus he will tell you : “Depart from me, I never knew you” because you are in fact an evil doer and not a true follower of the spirit/essence of Jesus Christ’s message.

Shame on you Mr. inJesus.
the sixth time you repeat the same baseless insults…i’ll let others respond to you whether i did something bad or not…so far i proved every word i say…your turn to prove the rest of your claims; if you are not willing to share but to keep repeating baseless insults, then i have no other thing to say.
For the last time, it is a SIN not to expose false teachings; it is NOT a sin if i criticize a satanic cult as per Bible…it IS a sin if i insult you…i believe i stand clean…others can comment.

Peace to all, see you tomorrow God willing.
 
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inJESUS:
So i can assure now, with absolutely no doubt, that those who say islam respect us are either liars or do not know their book or good people who disregard this negativity in quran.

/QUOTE

Mr. inJesus,

Koran/Islam respects only those who truly follow the true message of Jesus Christ and do not defeat the main purpose of sending Prophets/Messengers.No Prophet of God came to die for our supposed sins which we did not commit. No child is born with sin. All are born sinless. It is only later we choose either to remain sinless or indulge in sinful acts.

Jesus did not came to die for people like Hitler or Missulini. All these Christians no matter what they believe, go to the Hell-fire. Now you ask yourself, if they go to the Hell, then for which sins, Jesus “died”?

Your attitude is worst than those Scribes and the Pharisees who gave hard time to Christ and he had to use so many WOES and even the very harsh words such as “ye snakes” Ye fools"…and repeatedly “woe to you Scribes and Pharisees…”
 
Mr injustice, you have failed to anwser any of the qeustions that contradict you faith, all you have said is that we are liars, i have given you a reasonable qeustion on which the christian and the jewish religion both agree on, yet you and your prophet do not. what logicall reason and excuse does the muslim religion have to exist. Christianity is a reasonble and logical fullfillment of the old scripture and the jewish religion, but islam has said nothing that is fundemental or gives reason. The only reason a religion exists, is because it is thier to forfill a purpose. Christianity forfills the prophesys and the scripture that was given to man. Islam has no forfillment gives nothing and has no reason, why is it Here? the faith is rooted in teachings of muhammed, Christianity is the forfillment of judaism, jesus was a jew. God would not found this religion unless it was a fullfilment of an old one. This is what i mean by reason or somthing making sense. you have failed to make sense of your religion and therefore have no excuse.
 
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freesoulhope:
Mr injustice, you have failed to anwser any of the qeustions that contradict you faith, all you have said is that we are liars, i have given you a reasonable qeustion on which the christian and the jewish religion both agree on, yet you and your prophet do not.
Dear freesoulhope,

Is that the reason the bulk of the Jews did not accept Jesus Christ as their Messiah and they are still waiting for their Messiah, who in thier minds, is to come for the first time and give them what they deserve?

Is that the reason, the Papacy in the past make Jews’ life miserable by either mass massacring them or throwing them out from their homes from Christian “peaceful” lands that these poor God Choosen People had to take refuge in Muslims/Arab lands where they were sheltered and honored as their cousins/people of the book?

Is that the reason your peaceful civilised Christian terrorist Adolf Hitler killed millions of Jews based on his religious convictions?

Who honored Jews with the titles such as “Christ-killers” and “Killers of our Saviour”?

Do you think Jews really believe that Christ was God?

What are you talking? Which reliable Jewish source agree with the crucifixion of Christ?
 
Had you read the article immediately above what you posted, you would have seen that the Muslims sacked and burned the Church of St. Mark - the patriarchate of Alexandria. Had you gone further and done a bit more investigation on the site, you would have found that the Moorish general Tariq, upon entering into Spain, ordered his forces to quarter and boil in a cauldron a stew of Spanish vinyard tenders with the proclamation to let everyone know just how peaceful these Moorish invaders were. Gosh, I’m just awed by how peaceful they were.
The Patriarchs of the time, I don’t think it’s too controversial to say, participated in the disgusting religious persecution ordered by Constantinople. That would explain well the popular reception of the muslim invaders versus the religious and political authorities’.

As for the boiled human incident, yes…the Muslims made war with war-like tactics. That was well within the bounds of anything you’d find in European conventions of warfare at the time.

My point in posting the history was to relate the rule of Muslims versus the rule of the Christians. At that time, unless you were rich and also of exactly the same doctrinal belief as the Emperor, you faired poorly in any christian territory. The muslims let monophysites and others believe as they wished, and even with the jizya tax imposed far lesser burdens than the Romans had.

Their conventions of warfare were comparable to the west’s, except that they did not insist on “convert or die” in every case, which the Christians did wherever they could.
 
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