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freedomm
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inJESUS
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why on earth do you repeat the same post everywhere? cut down the lenghth of your posts please…
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inJESUS
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how do you make sure that Uthman kept the original one? if we read Hadith, one of the 4 scribes chosen by mohammad disagreed with Uthman’s version…i think later we can tackle this issue. All i can say now is : you have faith that Uthman kept the original one. Why?
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inJESUS
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yep.
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cestusdei
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We have only Uthmans word that the others were not substantially different. Although if there was ANY difference then the quran is NOT perfect as they claim. There are a few variant versions left and fragments of others. Enough to know that something was up. Apparently whole sura’s were left out. I have some ideas of other sura’s that could be left out of any new version.
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murtad
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Before Vatican II, it was compulsory for members of Catholic Church to use a Latin liturgy. It was only at Vatican II, we were allowed to use English, an international language. Was this change bad? I believe no and IMO, Vatican II was right to abolish the use of Latin and replace it with English.
This is an Islamist myth. Arabic text of Quran is actually a plagarisation of Jewish Talmud, which our Lord Jesus called teachings of the devil. So, we can say, Arabic text of Quran is a merely a translation of the original Aramaic Talmud.
You are correct to say that God is multi-lingual. Our Lord Jesus spoke three languages namely Aramaic, Greek and Latin. However, I will not call using an unfamiliar language as hindrance to worship for both Greek Orthodox Church and Coptic Orthodox Church have always used Koine Greek and Coptic as their liturgical languages respectively.
If you visit Egypt, you will be surprised to see Coptic Christians worship in a language they do not know. The reason for doing this is Copts want to remind themselves that they are not Arabs nor slaves of the Moon God, Allah.
Just my 2 cents. Feel free to give me your reaction.
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freedomm
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Dear murtad:
You are indeed a joker. Almost every line of your posts makes me laugh at your sheer ignorance and lies.
Why don’t you first learn and know Islam starting from it’s fundamentals, then open your mouth. Because right now you are merely making a fool out of yourself with your utter nonsense and allowing people to laugh at your posts.
Or read atleast what your Father Sidney Graffith said about Islam.
May God have mercy on the state of your disturbed mind. Say Amen !!
You are indeed a joker. Almost every line of your posts makes me laugh at your sheer ignorance and lies.
Why don’t you first learn and know Islam starting from it’s fundamentals, then open your mouth. Because right now you are merely making a fool out of yourself with your utter nonsense and allowing people to laugh at your posts.
Or read atleast what your Father Sidney Graffith said about Islam.
May God have mercy on the state of your disturbed mind. Say Amen !!
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murtad
Guest
In one Hadith, Muhammad said: “an Arab is not by birth but by his tongue”, so Arabs are not race. Anyone who learns Arabic is an Arab.
The Talmud tells us similarly “A Hebrew is not by birth but by his tongue, and a Jew is person who praises God in the Hebrew tongue”.
So, we now know Jew, Arab and Greek are not races but merely cultures/languages, for our Lord himself said something like there is no difference between Jews and Greeks. Everyone came from common parents Adam and Eve.
The reason Muslims prefer to worship in Arabic, not other languages is the same as Jews who prefer to worship in Hebrew. A Muslim is an Arabic person who dreams of a Pan-Arab world, while a Jew is a Hebrew person who dreams of a Pan-Hebrew world.
Did you know that Egypt, Syria, Lebanon, Iraq, Palestine, Sudan and Libya before the Islamic invasion was not Arab?
It was not because Latin was a holy language but due to Roman nationalism, Latin was used. You may know nationalism is due to pride and so Jewish nationalists worship in Hebrew for over 5000 years. Latin was the root cause of the split the West and the East, which wanted to worship in Greek. Even today, the Greek Orthodox Church liturgical language is Koine Greek, the language of New Testament.
I am a conservative Catholic who dislikes both Latin and Greek. I prefer English as the international language to unite mankind. European Union could abolish all those 25 divisive languages and replace them with English. Then, EU like India and Singapore will be one nation. English is a Holy language for our Lord Jesus made it prevail over every other language. It is the language of business, science, technology and communication as well as religious liturgy.
You are correct to say God is above language, yet Lord Jesus made English prevail over all languages. Arabic, Hebrew, Greek and Latin are declining in use but English is increasing in use. If every government adopts English, we will truly be one human race, regardless White, Black, Brown and Yellow.
Yes, all Muslims in Malaysia pray five times a day in Arabic despite not understanding what they pray. I am a former Muslim who knows how to pray in Arabic while not understand a word of what I pray. This sort of praying is praying in vain, which is why I left Islam. The Christian faith is so much better for its liturgical language, English is an international language.
Just my 2 cents.
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LilyM
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Thank you for a very clear intelligent and not too long explanation. freedomm take note - THIS is the way to discuss in these forums, don’t just quote random chunks of Bible or Quran or other writers that may vaguely have something to do with answering the question at hand.
I am well aware of the Catholic and Orthodox history of using Latin and Greek - and, like you, I wouldn’t like the idea of saying Mass in those languages today. As you say, they were adopted mainly for political reasons, at least initially while they were still ‘living’ languages. They were kept for a long time afterwards because they were still fairly universally learned, even if they weren’t widely used outside the Church except among certain professionals and academics.
They more or less took on a life of their own as ‘international’ languages, a bit like English or Spanish (or indeed Arabic) today. The difference being that as still living languages there are more political consequences to the spread of English or Chinese today than there were with Latin, which was adopted pretty much in the last days of the Roman Empire and was probably adopted partly because it was almost a ‘dead’ language.
Being a native English speaker I suppose I have a bias towards the English language
I don’t think, though, I’d like to go back to the days where everyone was made to use a single language for the sake of expediency. For starters Catholicism has spread in many more regions of the world now, which makes it less practical. For another thing many of those European (and other) countries have fought long and hard to keep their own identities, including their own languages, and I think they’ve earned the right to do so.
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Reuben_J
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biblegateway.com/passage/?search=isaiah%207:20;&version=65; ]
And from where *The Message * Bible got the words “genitals, leaving you shamed, exposed, and denuded”??[/INDENT]
What do you really want to do with your God, yaa akhi??
Brother freedomm, you have repeated this verse a million times already. What exactly do you want to achieve from this so that we can response to you appropriately to satisfy your curiosity or your accusation?
If you want to embarrass us because of the wording of the verse, let me tell you we are not moved by it. We don’t deny the Bible and there is nothing to be ashamed about there. You Muslims are ashamed of the anatomy of your body but we don’t. This kinda of repetitive but we believe that we are made in the image of God and there is dignity in one’s body. Muslims don’t think this way, at least that’s our impression when you keep mentioning the fact of the body as if in disgust. Not to mention the way Muslims hide their bodies in their dressing.
If you think the mentioned verse is humiliating then you should ponder the death of Jesus on the cross as in Christians’ belief. Even by Romans’ standard, death on the cross is so shameful and humiliating that it’s reserved as death penalty for non-Roman citizens only. This was what befell on Jesus. And you know who wanted to stop the death of Jesus? Guess?
**It’s the devil!!! ** For the cross brings the victory! The victory over sin and death. For by the victory of the cross, death lost its sting. It has been overcome and Satan has no hold over us unless we knowingly submit ourselves to him. No wonder Satan wanted to stop it at all cost.
Thus the verse you quoted doesn’t get any response from Christians here because we don’t know what you are getting at. And if it is what it is, it is not important to us to deserve a respond. And I’m just doing you a favor, brother.
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inJESUS
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Reuban J, it was already explained to him a thousand time that these were linguistic idioms denothing punishment and morning and i gave him a different passage showing that shaving hair is a sign of mourning…but he repeated the same post a thousand time…this shows you what level of arguments you expect from someone like Freedom.
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Eden
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Sometimes you have to wonder about people who protest too much.
I mean, if you are offended by the word genitals freedomm, why do you feel the need to post it repeatedly in bold size 5 type?
I mean, if you are offended by the word genitals freedomm, why do you feel the need to post it repeatedly in bold size 5 type?
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MrS
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is that why we have to learn Spanish in this country… so we can become one with those who leave their country to come to this one :whacky:
good thing it is not Latin, or this country might split like the Church did ( …not)
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MrS
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I really do have a reply for this post… but in difference to the hardworking mods… I will refrain, and hope to make their job a bit easier.
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Faith101
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Where did you get this from?
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Faith101
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Allah can do as He likes, we are Muslims…we submit and surrender to His will.
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Faith101
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Faith101
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Yes, all Muslims, from the chinese to the indians, have to say the 5 prayers in Arabic. Any supplication outside of that, where you are talking to Allah, asking him for something, can be said in your native tongue or however way you wish to express yourself.
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inJESUS
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i know that God can do what he likes, but don’t you find it doubtful that he changed his mind so quickly without reason? i think God must have reason to everything He does…i dont think his actions are arbitrary; didnt allah know that the kaaba is the place to muslims? why then start with Jerusalem? as far ias i believe, God doesn’t change his mind in these matters.
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Muslim
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wait, do you people think that EVERYTHING is said in Arabic?
no the PRAYERS are verses from QURAN thats said in Arabic and depending on where you are, it is TRANSLATED. please do yoursel fa favor and go to a Mosque one day.
no the PRAYERS are verses from QURAN thats said in Arabic and depending on where you are, it is TRANSLATED. please do yoursel fa favor and go to a Mosque one day.
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