Islam's claim about Mohammad

[RyanL]

Question about Islam’s claims about Mohammad. Islam claims that Mohammad was illiterate…I wonder why? This precept is the foundation of the arguments that the Qur’an must be divinely revealed. I have recently seen commentary to the contrary:

Al-Haafiz Ibn Hajar says, “The Prophet was illiterate, and that is why the Qur’an is so miraculous by nature. When Islam had spread and he was sure that no one would be suspicious (of his being the compiler of the Qur’an), he learnt how to read and write”! Ibn Sheba says, “The Messenger of God, peace be upon him, died only after he had learned to read and write.” al-Tubrusi adds, “As for the time after he was chosen to be a prophet, there was no reason for anyone to harbour suspicion against him; therefore it is possible that he learnt to read and write.”

Further, the Qur’an, under examination, doesn’t even claim this:

The word ummi occurring in the text in question did not mean, according to the Qur’an itself, having no knowledge of reading or writing, but it means those who did not have a book revealed by God. The Jews, who came from Abraham’s son Isaac, were the People of the Book, while the Arabs, who are considered as coming from Abraham’s son Ishmael, were common folk (ummiyoon) or Gentiles (umam). The Qur’an showed this distinction clearly and openly in many a place, when it called both the people of the Book and the common folk to follow Islam.

      "And say to those who have been given the Book and to the common       folk (*ummiyeen*): ‘Have you surrendered?'" (Sura Al Imran       3:20). This verse points to how the common folk desired to know the Book,       as in Sura al-Baqara 2:78, "And some there are of them that are       common folk not knowing the Book, but only fancies." The Qur'an also       boasts that God sent a messenger not of the people of the Book: "It       is He who raised up from among the common people a Messenger from among       them" (Sura al-Jum`a 62:2).

      As to the people of the Book themselves, they called those who did not       belong to them Gentiles. "They say, ‘There is no way over us as       to the common people' (Sura Al Imran 3:75). In the light of this Qur'anic       verse we are to understand that the Qur'an describes Muhammad as *ummi*.       The common folk of the Qur'an are the Arabs who descended from Ishmael,       and the people of the Book are the Jews who descended from Isaac.       Consequently, the word *ummi *does not mean illiterate, but someone       who belonged to the Arabs, the descendants of Ishmael, who did not have a       revealed Book. Al-Shahristaani writes:

      The people of the Book upheld the religion of the Tribes (of Israel) and       conducted themselves as the Children of Israel. The common people upheld       the tribal religion and conducted themselves as the children of Ishmael.

  Comments?

Shalom,
RyanL

 

[exoflare]

RyanL:

Comments?

Shalom,
RyanL

Maybe the Quran is really boasting about how God raised up a prophet from among the illiterates? lol

 

[manx]

Booklover:

Peace Faith! Jesus died for all the sins that mankind would commit till the end of the world. If someone else who reads this post can explain it better, please do!

Now Faith, to get back to Islam. I’m sorry if my posts upset you,but those are my feelings about Islam. I believe that because of what I see. While Muslims keep telling us that Islam is a religion of peace there are too many atrocities being committed by them all over the world.

I’m not saying that there aren’t fanatical Christians out there who commit atrocities, but there is nothing in the teachings of Christ that could possibly inspire anyone to do anything like that. Everything he taught was about love and forgiveness. I started reading about Islam after Sept. 11 because I wanted to find out what would make anyone do such terrible things. There are just too many references to violence in the Qur’an and too many Muslims using them to justify their violent actions, and it’s not just the radicals doing this, but ordinary Muslims as well.

Whenever any atrocity is committed against anyone, everyone should be outraged but when Sept. 11 happened, there were people in Pakistan out in the street cheering about what had happened here and those were just ordinary Muslims. Why weren’t they upset as well?

I read an account of a Muslim mother who was thrilled that her son was preparing himself to be a suicide bomber! As a Christian I was horrified when I read this because murder and suicide are terrible sins punishable by everlasting torment in hell.

There was another account of a pregnant Muslim woman with other children I believe,who strapped a bomb to herself, pretended to need help, and when American soldiers came to help, she detonated the bomb! Not only did she leave her other children motherless, kill herself and the soldiers, but her unborn child as well! How can you justify that?

Another account was about an Arab servant who worked for some monks. They all liked and respected each other. One day the Arab servant was given the order to kill the monks. He went to them and told them what he had to do, that he would do it mercifully, and did! This was another ordinary Muslim. Please explain something like that.

In a post by Donna where she cited atrocities committed by Muslims, you responded that that was done by Muslims, but not Islam. What is Islam then, if not Muslims. I don’t understand that.

There was another post by a Muslim that stated that Islam is not what Muslims do, but what they should do. That is a very ambiguous statement. If that is so, then why don’t Muslims do what they should do instead of what they’re doing?

These are some of the reasons why I have so many doubts about Islam as a religion of peace.

Sorry for the longwinded post, but I just want you to understand why I feel as I do.

Vickie

Hey Vickie,

Just a suggestion, if you don’t mind. Try reading alternative news and analysis. It gives me an idea of what’s in both sides of the fence.

manx

 

[manx]

exoflare:

Maybe the Quran is really boasting about how God raised up a prophet from among the illiterates? lol

Maybe we should investigate more on Islam’s claim about the Koran and their prophet before we pass judgement. Even though we think they are wrong, as Christians, we should avoid insulting their beliefs.

manx

 

[Faith101]

Our God is an Awesome God! good job Booklover! i appreciate our guests being here though, lets be sure to make them feel welcomed! Other wise we might not have such an awesome opportunity to evangelize and spread the Good Word! However i agree with you 100%!! there could never be ANY comparison whatsoever!

Peace TarAshly

Do you think that if Mohamed (peace be upon him) is what Booklover described, that Islam would be the fastest growing religion? That people would find truth and change their entire life for this religion (look at Cat Stevens and Malcolm X to name a few).

I know the image of Islam and Mohamed (pbuh) is tarnished through the media. Mohamed peace be upon him was an orphan, who was born poor and died poor. He was offered the wealth and power of the entire society if only he would give up the message that there is no god worthy of worship but God alone. He not only guranteed the rights of women and slaves and the poor, but he guranteed the animals’ rights. He sought to destroy the obsession with money and power and tribal warefare that plagued the society of which he lived.

He struggled to replace the 300 idols that the pagans worshipped with the One true God that is worthy of worship. Peace be upon him.

I encourage you to take an objective look at his life if truth is something thats important to you

 

[Faith101]

the Truth that is Christ, Catholicism, The Holy Spirit, God, The Blessed Mother, The litany of the Saints.

Do you disapprove of the Muslims b/c they believe the only being worthy of worship is God alone?

 

[Faith101]

Booklover:

Believe me Faith, there is nothing that you or any other Muslim could tell me that would make me accept Islam and Mohammed. I will never believe in Mohammed’s claims or that the Qur’an is the word of God. Jesus Christ is my Lord and Savior! Amen!

You think I’m blind and I think you’re the one that’s blind so let’s leave it at that!

As to those who reject Faith, it is the same to them whether thou warn them or do not warn them; they will not believe (Quran 2:6)

 

[RyanL]

Faith101:

Do you disapprove of the Muslims b/c they believe the only being worthy of worship is God alone?

Do you disaprove of Christians because you think we worship these things?

 

[exoflare]

Faith101:

Peace TarAshly

Do you think that if Mohamed (peace be upon him) is what Booklover described, that Islam would be the fastest growing religion? That people would find truth and change their entire life for this religion (look at Cat Stevens and Malcolm X to name a few).

What exactly is your argument? That whatever the fastest-growing religion is must be the true religion? Please tell me the logic behind this.

Your other argument just consists of the fact that people have converted to that particular religion before. Can any other religion say that?? I’ll try to find one or two, if I possibly can.

But wait… CELEBRITIES have even converted to Islam before! Such pioneers in morality as Cat Stevens and Malcolm X, nonetheless. You might want to keep an eye out on Scientology nowadays. They already have nabbed Tom Cruise and Katie Holmes after all.

 

[Faith101]

chb03c:

We believe Jesus died for our individual sins, plus Adams sin. Because it was Adam who introduced the idea of sin to begin with There needed to be a way for people to be forgiven of that. Christ dying on the cross as the sacrifical lamb for the Sader was sufficent enough for the forgivness of sins. Why did it have to be a cross you say? Well for a Sader meal the lamb is cut in such a way that across its chest a giant cross is made. Interesting fact isn’t it? Also no bones could be broken in the lamb, also in the crucifition no bones where broken. Many parallells can be made with Christianity and Jewdaism (spelling). A lot of what Christ did was a fulfillment of Jewish practice. Which is why some things are different now then it was in the Jewish faith. Keep asking questions

God Bless,

This is what is going on in my head, and i’m surprised that Christians dont ask themselves this. I wasnt even born then…i didnt have any sin…what sin did Jesus peace be upon him die for

God is not bound by Jewish law. THe law is for the Jews not God.

Have you ever though of this whole story from a muslims point of view? That there is no orginal sin, we are all born ina state of purity…and the only sin we are accountable for is that which we have created with our own hands. ANd in order to be forgiven, all you have to do is sincerely seek forgiveness and you will be granted it everytime. What do you think of this concept from an objective point of view. DOesnt it point to a Merciful being who is the Most kind?

 

[Faith101]

RyanL:

Do you disaprove of Christians because you think we worship these things?

In all honesty, its a disapproving act to worship other things besides God alone and then coin phrases to make it seem ok.

I read this book by a former Minister who receieved his phD in Divinity from Harvard University. He has become muslim. and one comment that really had an affect on me…was when he said “i became muslim when i realized that all these years, i was teaching sugar coated polytheism”

His name is Gerald Dirks…the book is called Cross and the Crescent. Its aim is to bridge communication b/w the musims and Christians. He goes through and discusses, from his seminary knowledge, how Islam has more things in common with early Christianity then modern Christianity has.

 

[Faith101]

What exactly is your argument? That whatever the fastest-growing religion is must be the true religion? Please tell me the logic behind this.

The argument is, if Mohamed peace be upon him is what Booklover states than why would Americans (including ministers and priests) accept islam willingly? Its something for you to ponder

I really do wish everyone on this forum would actually study his life. A good book is by Martin Lings (i believe its called Mohamed).

Anway, its up to you. We all stand in front of God alone.

 

[Faith101]

Peace Faith! Jesus died for all the sins that mankind would commit till the end of the world. If someone else who reads this post can explain it better, please do!

It doesnt make sense to me, but thats ok.

font=Verdana]Now Faith, to get back to Islam. I’m sorry if my posts upset you,but those are my feelings about Islam. I believe that because of what I see. While Muslims keep telling us that Islam is a religion of peace there are too many atrocities being committed by them all over the world.

[/font

]

This is not Islam. Its a played out statement…but its true. I feel like a black person in the early 1900’s shouting “We are not inferior to the whites!” But no one seems to hear me. May God grant you light to see the truth

I dont know where you got these stories you mentioned…this is not islam…no one seems to hear me…oh well, im only the bearer of a message
[/quote]

 

[exoflare]

Faith101:

That there is no orginal sin, we are all born ina state of purity…and the only sin we are accountable for is that which we have created with our own hands. ANd in order to be forgiven, all you have to do is sincerely seek forgiveness and you will be granted it everytime. What do you think of this concept from an objective point of view. DOesnt it point to a Merciful being who is the Most kind?

Did God expel Adam and Eve out of the garden of Eden? Why didn’t I ever get a chance there?

[Sura 2:37]
Then Adam received from his Lord words and He accepted his repentance. Lo! He is the acceptor of repentance, the Merciful.

But (and it’s a big BUT) I know this is from a hadith:

Allah’s Apostle said, "Adam and Moses met, and Moses said to Adam “You are the one who made people miserable and turned them out of Paradise.” Adam said to him, “You are the one whom Allah selected for His message and whom He selected for Himself and upon whom He revealed the Torah.” Moses said, ‘Yes.’ Adam said, “Did you find that written in my fate before my creation?’ Moses said, ‘Yes.’ So Adam overcame Moses with this argument.”

 

[exoflare]

Faith101:

The argument is, if Mohamed peace be upon him is what Booklover states than why would Americans (including ministers and priests) accept islam willingly? Its something for you to ponder

I (or a person of practically ANY other religion for that matter) could ask you the very same question in reverse! Like people have never willingly converted from Islam to something else before? But it doesn’t apply as proof for any of THOSE religions somehow, I guess. You aren’t applying the same standards to other religions as you’re applying to Islam.

 

[RyanL]

exoflare:

Faith101:

I (or a person of practically ANY other religion for that matter) could ask you the very same question in reverse! Like people have never willingly converted from Islam to something else before? But it doesn’t apply as proof for any of THOSE religions somehow, I guess. You aren’t applying the same standards to other religions as you’re applying to Islam.

…Actually, I posted an article on another thread by Al-Jazeera about how there are some 6,000,000 Muslims converting to Christianity every year…
Just thought you might like to know.

In Christ, and Him crucified,
RyanL

 

[exoflare]

RyanL:

exoflare:

…Actually, I posted an article on another thread by Al-Jazeera about how there are some 6,000,000 Muslims converting to Christianity every year…
Just thought you might like to know.

Al-Jazeera published an article that said that? I hope the poor guy who wrote it is still alive!

 

[RyanL]

exoflare:

RyanL:

Al-Jazeera published an article that said that? I hope the poor guy who wrote it is still alive!

Muslims like to throw converts in our faces, so here’s a link to some in case they ask again:
answering-islam.org/Testimonies/index.html
Here’s another link to some Muslim “conversion” hoaxes you may run into…
answering-islam.org/Hoaxes/index.html

Christ be with you,
RyanL

 

[Booklover]

Faith101:

I read this book by a former Minister who receieved his phD in Divinity from Harvard University. He has become muslim. and one comment that really had an affect on me…was when he said "i became muslim when i realized that all these years, i was teaching sugar coated polytheism

Faith, there you go again, inferring that we worship 3 Gods! We worship 0NE God, in 3 divine persons. Look at it this way, there are five fingers in the hand, but it’s still only one hand, not five! The Holy Trinity has been revealed to us by God who can neither lie nor deceive. It’s not for us to understand it at this time, we accept it.

Have you read the account of Jesus’ baptism? The spirit of God descended on him in the shape of a dove and the voice of God declared: This is my beloved Son in whom I am well pleased".

 

[Booklover]

Faith101:

This is not Islam. Its a played out statement…but its true. I feel like a black person in the early 1900’s shouting “We are not inferior to the whites!” But no one seems to hear me. May God grant you light to see the truth

Faith, I already have the truth, and the truth is Jesus Christ!

dont know where you got these stories you mentioned…this is not islam…no one seems to hear me…oh well, im only the bearer of a message

Faith, I didn’t invent these things. The account of the pregnant woman was on the news and the others I read in magazines. These things are true! You keep saying this isn’t Islam, but it’s the followers of Islam who are doing these things! What it boils down to is that a religion is only as good as its members. If you like, I’ll try to find the articles they were in for you.

Are you beginning to understand now why people question whether Islam is really a peaceful religion?