Islam's claim about Mohammad

[chb03c]

Faith101,

I have read several things about Mohammed the last few days. Including the link that you provided. And there is not one thing in his biography nor the history of Islam that makes me think that Islam could possibly be from God. Now I agree I will have to read more, but still the problem strictly is the fact that Mohammed is still human, and could in no way deliver an important message from God perfectly. God himself would have to deliver the message personally. The only way that Mohammed could have possiblely given the message perfectly is if his heart was guided directly from God, step by step for the rest of his life each move he would make, just like us Catholics believe the Church is being guided. But that would imply that you do not believe in free will.

A second problem is in order for me to be a good Muslim I would first have to have faith that Mohammed’s intintions were pure, second I would have to have faith in the Quran, then I would be able to have faith in Allah. This doesn’t make sense to me, why would I have to have faith in a human and a book first before I had faith in God?

Because According to you we do not worship God the way we(Christians) should; what is it about Islam that does everything the right way. Like i said in the previous paragraph you must have faith in Mohammed then the Quran then Allah. You will have to explain to me why that is NOT have astrained gods over God?

 

[hlgomez]

My muslim friends,

We’ve answered your questions where Jesus spoke that he is God from the book of Revelations; “I am the Alpha and the Omega, the first and the last…” God is the Alpha and the Omega.

Now, the Quran says; “there is no God but Allah, and Muhammad is his prophet.” How can we be so sure that this is true?

Now, where can we find where God actually spoke; "I am Allah, and Muhammad is my prophet."

Pio

 

[onestop]

Catholicious wrote:
I understand that Muslims believe that there is only one God. Christians believe that there is only one God also, but that He is a triune God (3 persons in one God, NOT 3 Gods - The Father, and the Son, and the Holy Spirit). I agree that this is a difficult concept to understand, but the composition of Almighty God surpasses all human understanding because we are limited, finite beings (his creations). We cannot understand because we are not like Him, we have no experiences to draw upon. Certainly if God is all-powerful then He can be anything He wants, even if it is outside our realm of understanding, right? It would not be very impressive if God could do nothing that we did not fully understand.

But in islam, Allah also teaches us this in the Quran :

[1] Say: He is Allah, the One and Only;

[2] Allah, the Eternal, Absolute;

[3] He begetteth not, nor is He begotten;

[4] And there is none like unto Him.

This are what He said in the Quran, and we are told to believe that Allah Himself will protect the words of the Quran from corruption till the end of time.

We believe in many names of Allah. One of the name we believe are ‘The all powerful’ and ‘The Most fairest’, so we believe He will be fair to everybody, and therefore we believe He will NOT have an unfair attitute. (You might say but He is God and He can do ANYTHING He want, and if He decides to be unfair, He can do that too if He wish!)
But we Muslim will still say He will always be fair, and judge us fairly because the Quran says so. So if He says that He is ‘The Only One’ and ‘There is none like unto Him’, then we will always believe in that too without asking much question any more.

 

[chb03c]

onestop:

Catholicious wrote:
I understand that Muslims believe that there is only one God. Christians believe that there is only one God also, but that He is a triune God (3 persons in one God, NOT 3 Gods - The Father, and the Son, and the Holy Spirit). I agree that this is a difficult concept to understand, but the composition of Almighty God surpasses all human understanding because we are limited, finite beings (his creations). We cannot understand because we are not like Him, we have no experiences to draw upon. Certainly if God is all-powerful then He can be anything He wants, even if it is outside our realm of understanding, right? It would not be very impressive if God could do nothing that we did not fully understand.

But in islam, Allah also teaches us this in the Quran :

[1] Say: He is Allah, the One and Only;

[2] Allah, the Eternal, Absolute;

[3] He begetteth not, nor is He begotten;

[4] And there is none like unto Him.

This are what He said in the Quran, and we are told to believe that Allah Himself will protect the words of the Quran from corruption till the end of time.

We believe in many names of Allah. One of the name we believe are ‘The all powerful’ and ‘The Most fairest’, so we believe He will be fair to everybody, and therefore we believe He will NOT have an unfair attitute. (You might say but He is God and He can do ANYTHING He want, and if He decides to be unfair, He can do that too if He wish!)
But we Muslim will still say He will always be fair, and judge us fairly because the Quran says so. So if He says that He is ‘The Only One’ and ‘There is none like unto Him’, then we will always believe in that too without asking much question any more.

I posted this already but I am posting it again in response to you post.

chb03c:

Faith101,

I have read several things about Mohammed the last few days. Including the link that you provided. And there is not one thing in his biography nor the history of Islam that makes me think that Islam could possibly be from God. Now I agree I will have to read more, but still the problem strictly is the fact that Mohammed is still human, and could in no way deliver an important message from God perfectly. God himself would have to deliver the message personally. The only way that Mohammed could have possiblely given the message perfectly is if his heart was guided directly from God, step by step for the rest of his life each move he would make, just like us Catholics believe the Church is being guided. But that would imply that you do not believe in free will.

A second problem is in order for me to be a good Muslim I would first have to have faith that Mohammed’s intintions were pure, second I would have to have faith in the Quran, then I would be able to have faith in Allah. This doesn’t make sense to me, why would I have to have faith in a human and a book first before I had faith in God?

Because According to you we do not worship God the way we(Christians) should; what is it about Islam that does everything the right way. Like i said in the previous paragraph you must have faith in Mohammed then the Quran then Allah. You will have to explain to me why that is NOT have astrained gods over God?

 

[onestop]

Dear chbo3c, i am sorry but i am only good at explaining **simple ** things and not the more complicated things. Probably due to my english understanding and experience. But i am sure someone will explain to you what you’ve just said earlier. really sorry man. bye

 

[hlgomez]

TO ALL MUSLIMS ON THIS THREAD:

Where can we find in the Quran where God directly spoke to Muhammad and said; “I am Allah, and you (Muhammad) is my prophet” or 'I am sending you Muhammad…" or something of this sort that suggests Allah directly speaking to Muhammad?

All we know is it’s another person, not God speaking the words such as; “Muhammad is his prophet.”

Pio

 

[Faith101]

hlgomez:

TO ALL MUSLIMS ON THIS THREAD:

Where can we find in the Quran where God directly spoke to Muhammad and said; "I am Allah, and you (Muhammad) is my prophet" or 'I am sending you Muhammad…" or something of this sort that suggests Allah directly speaking to Muhammad?

All we know is it’s another person, not God speaking the words such as; “Muhammad is his prophet.”

Pio

Peace Pio

Ok…here are just a couple of verses keep in mind 1. the Quran was revealed to Mohamed (pbuh) 2. “we” is something used in arabic that signifies power…so ONE person can say “we did this”

Whatever good, (O man!) happens to thee, is from Allah. but whatever evil happens to thee, is from thy (own) soul. and B]we have sent thee as an apostle to (instruct) mankind. And enough is Allah for a witness. (Chapter #4, Verse #79)

O Prophet! Truly we have sent thee as a Witness, a Bearer of Glad Tidings, and Warner,- (Chapter #33, Verse #45)

Verily we have sent thee in truth, as a bearer of glad tidings, and as a warner: and there never was a people, without a warner having lived among them (in the past). (Chapter #35, Verse #24)

In all honesty, i dont know what can be clearer than the verse below

But those who believe and work deeds of righteousness, and believe in the (Revelation) sent down to Muhammad - for it is the Truth from their Lord,- He will remove from them their ills and improve their condition. (Chapter #47, Verse #2)

Pio, i have never seen anyone question this.It is very clear in the Quran, but I pasted some verses anyway to help you understand Perhaps if you start reading the Quran, you will get most of your questions answered.
Hope this helped!

 

[chb03c]

Faith101:

Whatever good, (O man!) happens to thee, is from Allah. but whatever evil happens to thee, is from thy (own) soul. and we have sent thee as an apostle to (instruct) mankind. And enough is Allah for a witness. (Chapter #4, Verse #79)

Doesn’t this imply that we (human beings are evil in hear?
If so how is that we are still made in the image and likeness of God?
In Christianity we do not believe that evil comes from us but rather Satan.

 

[exoflare]

chb03c:

Doesn’t this imply that we (human beings are evil in hear?
If so how is that we are still made in the image and likeness of God?
In Christianity we do not believe that evil comes from us but rather Satan.

I’m not so sure that’s true about all evil coming from Satan. We have free will no matter what. Also I would post some explanation when you mention humans being made in the “image” of God. In my experience most Muslims think that’s blasphemy because they think it must refer to physical appearance.

 

[chb03c]

exoflare:

I’m not so sure that’s true about all evil coming from Satan. We have free will no matter what. Also I would post some explanation when you mention humans being made in the “image” of God. In my experience most Muslims think that’s blasphemy because they think it must refer to physical appearance.

Ok thank you, I am sorry for any kind of confusion.

 

[hlgomez]

**

O Prophet! Truly we have sent thee as a Witness

, a Bearer of Glad Tidings, and Warner,- (Chapter #33, Verse #45)

**

Verily we have sent thee in truth, as a bearer of glad tidings, and as a warner

**: and there never was a people, without a warner having lived among them (in the past). (Chapter #35, Verse #24)

Faith101,

Who is the “We” here? If it is God, how can we be sure that it is him who is speaking? To me, it doesn’t imply that God is speaking here. Where is the identity of this “we”?

Maybe you can support your quotations as to who is the speaker of those words.

Pio**

 

[hlgomez]

**

But those who believe and work deeds of righteousness, and believe in the (Revelation) sent down to Muhammad - for it is the Truth from their Lord,- He will remove from them their ills and improve their condition. (Chapter #47, Verse #2)

**

Pio, i have never seen anyone question this.It is very clear in the Quran, but I pasted some verses anyway to help you understand Perhaps if you start reading the Quran, you will get most of your questions answered.
Hope this helped!

Faith101,

It is not clear to me so I ask the question as to the validity of the source (a person) speaking those words. I am presenting those questions as a response to the questions being posed by muslims on this thread questioning the identity of the person of Jesus Christ and his words.

The above “verses” is not quite a direct words spoken by God. To the contrary, the identity of the person is hidden. We do not know who exactly said those words. What exactly is “Truth” or “Revelation” that is coming from their “Lord”? Who is the “Lord” here?

In addition, do you have documentation of people “removed of their ills and improved their condition” thru believing in Muhammads writings?

Pio

 

[exoflare]

**Who is the “We” here? If it is God, how can we be sure that it is him who is speaking? To me, it doesn’t imply that God is speaking here. Where is the identity of this “we”?

Maybe you can support your quotations as to who is the speaker of those words.Pio**

She said that the “we” is apparently used as a singular term in Arabic that implies great power or something like that.

 

[hlgomez]

She said that the “we” is apparently used as a singular term in Arabic that implies great power or something like that.

The answer is not quite very clear.

I am asking the source or the person speaking those words in a more explicit terms used, like when God spoke directly to Moses by revealing His name. God said: “I AM who I am.” Proof that God speaks directly to the person by revealing that it is him who is speaking, not just some third person speaking.

Pio

 

[Catholicious]

– No one answered my earlier questions, here they are.

What does Islam believe about the accuracy of the Bible? I may be wrong but it is my understanding that Islam believes that the Bible has been corrupted over the last 2000 years as the scriptures have been rewritten and translated into different languages. Is that correct?

If that is correct, what does Islam feel about the Dead Sea Scrolls found at Qumran? These are the oldest existing copies of scripture found about 50 years ago, much older than what remained before. It is reasonable to assert that if indeed the Bible of today is corrupted as a result of 2000 years of translations, that the content of the books in today’s Bible would not match that of those same books found in the Dead Sea Scrolls. But in reality, it is astonishing how little if anything has changed in the scriptures since the Dead Sea Scrolls of 2000 years ago. The Church with God’s protection has preserved them from corruption.

onestop:

But in islam, Allah also teaches us this in the Quran :

[1] Say: He is Allah, the One and Only;

[2] Allah, the Eternal, Absolute;

[3] He begetteth not, nor is He begotten;

[4] And there is none like unto Him.

This are what He said in the Quran, and we are told to believe that Allah Himself will protect the words of the Quran from corruption till the end of time.

Christians, especially Catholic Christians, believe that Sacred Scripture [contained in the Bible] has been guarded throughout the ages by the Church that Jesus Christ established, and protected from error and corruption with the guidance of the Holy Spirit. It has been over 2000 years since the since the Old Testament was completed and a little less since the New Testament. This is plenty of time for the Bible to be corrupted, but when you compare those books [they were then scrolls] in the Dea Sea Scrolls found at Qumran with those same books found in a current day Bible, you will see that they have been perfectly preserved, certainly not corrupted. How do you explain that? The Catholic Church is the longest standing institution in the world, 2000 years. This could not be possible if it were merely a man-made institution, but very possible since it was established by God, and it is this Church that has preserved Sacred Scripture [the Bible] from error and corruption.

I would really like someone to address this issue, I appreciate it. Peace be with you!

 

[Faith101]

**

**

Faith101,

It is not clear to me so I ask the question as to the validity of the source (a person) speaking those words. I am presenting those questions as a response to the questions being posed by muslims on this thread questioning the identity of the person of Jesus Christ and his words.

If you keep in mind that Muslims believe that the Quran is the direct word of God…everything will make sense to you.

The identity of God is clear in the Quran. He actually says “I am your Lord, worship Me” and then defines who He is through different adjectives.

The above “verses” is not quite a direct words spoken by God. To the contrary, the identity of the person is hidden. We do not know who exactly said those words. What exactly is “Truth” or “Revelation” that is coming from their “Lord”? Who is the “Lord” here

Again, please keep in mind that the Quran is the direct word of God…He is the author. In any case…this should make it clear

"This is the Book; in it is guidance sure, without doubt, to those who fear Allah

Who believe in the Unseen, are steadfast in prayer, and spend out of what We have provided for them;

And who believe in the Revelation sent to thee (Mohamed), and sent before thy time, and (in their hearts) have the assurance of the Hereafter

They are on (true) guidance, from their Lord, and it is these who will prosper. (2:2-5)

In addition, do you have documentation of people “removed of their ills and improved their condition” thru believing in Muhammads writings?

I dont understand what you mean here…do you mean spirtually or physcially…or what? Have you ever read the Malcolm Xs biography? Islam is what changed his life. Do you know the story of Cat Steven’s conversion? It ws the words of the Quran that changed his life (he had never met a muslim before he converted)

 

[Faith101]

**

---

Faith101,

Who is the “We” here? If it is God, how can we be sure that it is him who is speaking? To me, it doesn’t imply that God is speaking here. Where is the identity of this “we”?

Maybe you can support your quotations as to who is the speaker of those words.

Pio

“WE” refers to God. It is used in arabic when a royal and/or a majestic person talks about him/her self in the plural.

 

[Faith101]

hlgomez:

The answer is not quite very clear.

I am asking the source or the person speaking those words in a more explicit terms used, like when God spoke directly to Moses by revealing His name. God said: “I AM who I am.” Proof that God speaks directly to the person by revealing that it is him who is speaking, not just some third person speaking.

Pio

Ok, Pio. the term “we” is used in arabic to denote power. You’ll just have to push that aside as being a barrier b/c you dont understand arabic

In the Quran, God is very clear who He is. He says “I am your Lord, so worship me” He also goes on to give us many adjectives that describe Himself. If your interested, we can go through those.

Here is a verse that talks about the relationship b/w God and human beings.

COLOR=Blue]When My servants ask thee (Mohamed) concerning Me, I am indeed close (to them): I listen to the prayer of every suppliant when he calleth on Me: Let them also, with a will, Listen to My call, and believe in Me: That they may walk in the right way. (Chapter #2, Verse #186)]

I really do hope this is clear. i have explained it to the best of my ability. I know that not being able to understand arabic makes things a little difficult for you in terms of understanding certain terms used in the Quran.

 

[Booklover]

Faith101:

Again, please keep in mind that the Quran is the direct word of God…He is the author. In any case…this should make it clear

Faith, you keep asserting the same thing, that the Qur’an is “the direct word of God” but where is the proof? It seems to me and correct me if I’m wrong, that all the “proof” you have is that Mohammed said so! That is not real evidence. As a Christian, the Qur’an means nothing to me since I don’t believe it to be the word of God at all.

The Catholic Church investigates all alledged “miracles” before it declares them to be true. It doesn’t automatically accept something simply because someone says they had a vision, or saw our Blessed Mother, or Jesus or an angel or something like that, it has to have absolute proof. I believe the apparations of our Blessed Mother in Fatima in 1917 were not approved by the Church until 1930! Our Lady gave us proof, the sun danced in the sky and thousands of people saw it!

That is what I think is the problem with Mohammed’s claims, it’s just his word that these things happened. If I believe that the Angel Gabriel appeared to Mary to announce to her that she was going to be the Mother of the Son of God, there is no way that I can believe that that same Angel appeared to Mohammed to declare a different creed to him! You can’t have it both ways. One has to be true and the other false.

Muslims are always saying that our scriptures are corrupted, but I think that Muslims were the ones that did the corrupting, by claiming that Jesus Christ did not die on the cross, as it is in our Bible, and by declaring that He was not the Son of God, thus adding credibility to Mohammed’s so-called claims.

Jesus said "I am the Alpha and the Omega, the beginning and the end! What do you think those words mean?

Vickie

 

[RyanL]

Booklover:

I believe the apparations of our Blessed Mother in Fatima in 1917 were not approved by the Church until 1930! Our Lady gave us proof, the sun danced in the sky and thousands of people saw it!

Actually, tens of thousands of people saw it. Testamonies were recorded by many non-Catholics (including athiests). It was even reported in the New York Times.