Israel Launches Operation Pillar of Defense against Gaza

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They, the two sides, did exchange these missiles tonight and it will be sunrise there soon but the conflict seems to be dying down. Greta on Fox has good coverage of this.
 
BroomWagon said:
They, the two sides, did exchange these missiles tonight and it will be sunrise there soon but the conflict seems to be dying down. Greta on Fox has good coverage of this.
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How is this conflict dying down if the Palestinians in Gaza are still going to be facing a blockade? At this point the only thing Israel has left them is their lives and not much of that. Look I feel bad for the innocent victims on all sides… But one side is the one being malnoutrishned.
 
A Canadian newspaper, The Globe and Mail, has published an interview with Dennis Ross. He was a special co-ordinator under president Bill Clinton; director of policy and planning at the State Department under George W. Bush; and, until a year ago, special assistant to President Barack Obama for the Middle East and Iran. He knows a lot about the context of Israeli-Gaza relations. The interview might be worth a look
theglobeandmail.com/news/world/an-expert-on-the-search-for-a-truce-in-gaza/article5515850/?cmpid=rss1

Here is bit of it:
If the truce proceeds and holds, what will Israel have gained?
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They will have re-established deterrence, because Hamas will have no incentive to try anything again, any time soon.
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They have destroyed a good chunk of the Hamas arsenal. Militarily, they’ve been very successful. There were 10,000 rockets. They’ve taken out probably 90 per cent of the long-range systems, the Iranian-made Fajr-5, and their crews. Every time they’re fired, the crews expose themselves. But the Grad rockets, which can reach Ashkelon, Ashdod and Beersheba, remain, and that’s problematic. And the Qassams, which terrorize Sderot and the surrounding area. What Israel really wants it likely won’t get, which is [to have] the Egyptians act in the Sinai to prevent arms from going into Gaza.
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Will Hamas enforce the truce on fringe groups in Gaza, such as the Salafis and Islamic Jihad?
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That’s the real question.
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Hamas hasn’t been willing to do that the past several months. That really has to be the rub. What Clinton will be communicating to the Egyptians is that it has to bring its weight to bear not only on Hamas, but on the others as well. And Hamas has to know that ultimately Egypt’s interests are at stake.
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What, in your view, precipitated this conflict?
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Two things. First, the idea that a million of [Israel’s] citizens were having their lives disrupted and running into bomb shelters is not something Israel was prepared to accept. Second, Hamas was clearly trying to create a new normal, to redefine the rules of the game. We’ll shoot with impunity and you, Israel, live with it. But the lull between rockets fired into Israel was going down, Hamas was less inclined to stop them, and Hamas itself began to assume greater responsibility for the attacks. They were trying to push the Israelis off the northern Gazan border so they can build new tunnels to kidnap Israeli soldiers. Hamas calculated that Israel would not escalate before the Israeli elections, was preoccupied with Iran and would not want to jeopardize relations with Egypt. The best indication that Hamas thought Israel would not do anything was that [Hamas military chief] Ahmed Jaabari, Israel’s Osama bin Laden, was in the open [when they killed him]. No way he’s in the open if Hamas thinks Israel might strike.
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Israel’s targets seem increasingly to be civilian infrastructure. First, it was police stations and mass communications outlets. But the scope is expanding.

For example, Wadi Bridge, the main crossing between north and south Gaza,was destroyed last night. Israel also dropped a bomb, very precisely, on wasteland in between two hotels housing journalists. The target seems to have been a water main.

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Turkey seems to have decided that its incendiary rhetoric against Israel has hurt its diplomatic influence. It seems to be be quietly backpedaling.
After prayers last Friday, Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan stepped outside a mosque on the banks of the Bosphorous here and dismissed a suggestion that Turkey should talk directly with its onetime ally, Israel, to attempt to resolve the crisis unfolding in Gaza.
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But by Tuesday, Turkey seemed to indicate that while its strident anti-Israel posture has been popular among Arabs, it has been at its own expense, undermining its ability to play the role of regional power broker by leaving it with little leverage to intercede in the Gaza conflict. As he headed to Gaza with an Arab League delegation on Tuesday, Turkey’s foreign minister, Ahmet Davutoglu, suggested to reporters that back-channel discussions had been opened with Israeli authorities.
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Turkey’s stature in the Middle East has soared in recent years as it became a vocal defender of Palestinian rights and an outspoken critic of Israel and pursued a foreign policy whose intent was to become a decisive power in regional affairs. But as Gaza and Israel were once again shooting at each other, Turkey found that it had to take a back seat to Egypt on the stage of high diplomacy. The heavy lifting unfolded in Cairo under the inexperienced hand of Egypt’s new president, Mohamed Morsi, whose political roots lie in the Muslim Brotherhood, the Sunni Islamist movement that helped found Hamas.
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nytimes.com/2012/11/21/world/europe/turkey-with-anti-israel-stance-sidelined-as-mideast-broker.html?_r=0
 
meltzerboy said:
The media originally portrayed Arafat’s PLO as a terrorist organization. Then the political party of Fatah, the main constituent of the PLO, was described as the radical element of the PLO organization. After that, Fatah was considered more mainstream compared to the terrorist group called Hamas. Now, I heard a commentator say that Hamas is conservative compared to other fringe elements of the Muslim Brotherhood. I suppose there is a certain relative aspect to this classification, but it seems the definition of terrorism is changing for the worse.
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Agreed. If Hamas is not considered a terrorist organisation what is?

Having said that Hamas supporters like the IRA supporters consider their activities legitimate and warranted.

This puts Israel in the difficult situation of negotiating with terrorists. The positive outlook is that the IRA is now largely disarmed and at peace with GB so peace is always a possibility.
 
Bus Explodes in Tel Aviv as Diplomats Work Toward Truce

A bomb exploaded on an Israeli bus near the nation’s military headquarters in Tel Aviv, wounding at least 10 people, Israeli officials said today.
The bus exploded about noon local time Wednesday in one of the city’s busiest areas, near the Tel Aviv museum. Police spokesman Micky Rosenfeld said authorities were investigating whether the bomb had been planted and left on the bus or whether it was the work of a suicide bomber. This is the first terror attack in Israel since 2006.

abcnews.go.com/International/bus-explodes-tel-aviv-diplomats-work-truce/story?id=17775262#.UKzaVuQ8B8F
 
bekalc said:
How is this conflict dying down if the Palestinians in Gaza are still going to be facing a blockade? At this point the only thing Israel has left them is their lives and not much of that. Look I feel bad for the innocent victims on all sides… But one side is the one being malnoutrishned.
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I meant because different parties are obviously trying to diffuse the situation, because there were reports that there was a cease fire.
 
bekalc said:
How is this conflict dying down if the Palestinians in Gaza are still going to be facing a blockade? At this point the only thing Israel has left them is their lives and not much of that. Look I feel bad for the innocent victims on all sides… But one side is the one being malnoutrishned.
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If they would import food instead of rockets they probably wouldn’t have an issue at all.
 
Egypt confiscates warheads smuggled from Libya
Egyptian authorities confiscated trucks carrying explosive warheads and a variety of small-arms ammunition smuggled from Libya, security officials said Wednesday.
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A flood of weapons from its western neighbor has added to Egypt’s security concerns as police have yet to fully return to their duties since last year’s uprising. Smuggled weapons often fall into the hands of Islamist militants in the Sinai Peninsula, or pass via underground tunnels to the Gaza Strip, the site of fierce fighting over the past week between Hamas militants and Israeli forces.
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news.yahoo.com/egypt-confiscates-warheads-smuggled-libya-104751133.html

The warheads are designed for Grad rockets, which the Gazans have a large number of. I am not sure if Hamas is manufacturing such rockets, though.
 
"Twenty-eight people have been injured in a “terrorist attack” on a bus in Israel’s commercial capital Tel Aviv, Israeli officials say.
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After the bus explosion, huge blasts were heard in the Gaza Strip as the Israeli bombardment of the Palestinian territory continued.
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Eleven people were killed in Gaza on Wednesday, the health ministry said."
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Kevin Connolly
BBC News, Tel Aviv
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"In the immediate aftermath of the bus bombing, there was a palpable sense of shock hanging in the air around the scene.
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Israel’s largest city has seen nothing like this for six-and-a-half years.
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Paradoxically, the explosion and the waves of Israeli air raids on Gaza this morning do not necessarily mean that the search for a ceasefire is dead.
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It may mean that both sides are sending a signal that if a deal is agreed, they will be reaching it from what they regard as a position of strength."
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(bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-20425352)
 
Breaking news from Reuters
Israel agreed to Gaza truce, won’t lift blockade: sources
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Israel has agreed to a truce in the Gaza Strip, but will not lift its blockade of the Palestinian territory, Israeli sources said, declining to give further details of any deal.
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Shortly before, a Palestinian official with knowledge of Egyptian mediation between the two sides told Reuters that there was a ceasefire agreement to end eight days of fighting in Gaza that has killed more than 140 Palestinians and five Israelis.
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Israel’s Channel Two television said a ceasefire would be announced in Cairo later in the evening by U.S. Secretary of State Hillary Clinton.
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live.reuters.com/Event/Conflict_on_the_Gaza_Strip/57454059
 
The President (Obama) commended the Prime Minister (Netanyahu) for agreeing to the Egyptian ceasefire proposal – which the President recommended the Prime Minster do – while reiterating that Israel maintains the right to defend itself.
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The President said that the United States would use the opportunity offered by a ceasefire to intensify efforts to help Israel address its security needs, especially the issue of the smuggling of weapons and explosives into Gaza.
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  • Excerpt from a readeout of President Obama’s call to Israeli Prime Minister Netanyahu, as distributed by the White House
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live.reuters.com/Event/Conflict_on_the_Gaza_Strip/57455372

According to the BBC the ceasefire will begin at 1900 GMT. (2 PM New York time)

Israel’s Netanyahu warns more forceful action might be needed if ceasefire fails - statement
live.reuters.com/Event/Conflict_on_the_Gaza_Strip/57455544
 
Dale_M said:
I hope the cease-fire holds. The next few days will tell.
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I hope so too. Hillary, wonder-woman, comes through again! If the cease-fire holds and can lead to further, more lasting negotiations, that would be a great legacy for her and the Obama administration, apart from the benefits to Israel and the Palestinians. I’m probably being too optimistic, but time will tell.
 
Netanyahu makes this grandiose scheme about Hamas and every time Hamas, a proxy of Iran and a terrorist organization, sends rockets into Israel, he pontificates about eliminating the threat only to back down again and again. So now Hamas gets to rearm. He does this and one wonders of he is just double speak. It certainly will give Iran the confidence that Netanyahu doesn’t have guts to attack them on their quest for a nuclear bomb.

The Muslim Brotherhood is a jihadist organization that is allowing other jihadists groups to occupy the Sinai. How did all the rockets get into Gaza in violation of the last ceasefire agreement. Now, the Muslim Brotherhood is fermenting unrest in Jordan in an attempt to over throw the Jordain Monarch government of King Abdullah II.

Jordanians Foil Potentially Massive Islamist Attack
Jordanian officials uncovered plans for a major combined islamist terrorist attack that would have included a bombing at a shopping center in Amman and assassination attempts on Western diplomats, Jordanian state television reported Sunday.
israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/161175

Meanwhile, Egyptian President Mohammed Morsi has come under fire from the Simon Wiesenthal Center, a Jewish group that monitors anti-Semitism worldwide.
The group issued a strong condemnation of Morsi’s attendance at a sermon where Muslim cleric Futouh Abd al-Nabi Mansour called for “the destruction and the dispersal of the Jews.”
jpost.com/MiddleEast/Article.aspx?id=288859

You CANNOT have a ‘democratic’ movement in the Middle East where a country is ruled by an theocratic ideology that is opposed to democracy! It’s an abdication of logic, knowledge and the understanding of Middle Eastern history.

Unbelievable! The policy makers on both sides of the aisle are clueless! :eek:
 
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