Israel 'ready for escalation' of Gaza conflict

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I can’t see what that has to do with anything. Thats a well played consequence of war to which Hamas had the opportunity to avoid today. Instead they chose to allow the death of civilians to appeal to the sympathy of the world.

“Hamas leader Khalid Mashal said that Palestinians should “applaud and take our hats off” to the kidnappers. Hamas’s rocket attacks (like Netanyahu’s attempt to destroy the unity government) have a strategic rationale. These attacks rarely hit targets, but they provoke a furious Israeli response that leads to hundreds of casualties and deaths, including women and children who have no direct connection with Hamas. These attacks rouse sympathy for Hamas in Europe and among the Arab states and can lead to welcome financial contributions and to the isolation of the Israeli government, but they come at an enormous cost to the people Hamas represents.”

google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0CB8QqQIwAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.newrepublic.com%2Farticle%2F118630%2Fisrael-palestine-murders-cause-criss-will-john-kerry-step&ei=aaLFU4HfFobL8wGZpYB4&usg=AFQjCNH4ZDZEa8y_xrC0mPPMYHJdOG5qnA
 
chefmomster2 said:
Israel voted to ACCEPT the HAMAS cease-fire agreement. HAMAS then rescinded the offer.
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To clarify, the cease-fire proposal came from the Egyptian government. According to reports, Hamas claims that it was not consulted when the proposal was drawn up, and that Hamas concerns are not addressed in the proposal. Hamas also complained that they had not even seen the proposal before it was made public. Such claims are complicated by the bad blood which exists between Egypt and Hamas: they do not like or trust one another.

Officially, Hamas has not rejected the proposal, saying they are still studying it. However, the opportunity may be lost.

“We agreed to the Egyptian proposal in order to give the opportunity to deal with demilitarization of the strip from missiles, rockets and tunnels through diplomatic means,” Mr. Netanyahu said after a meeting with the German foreign minister, Frank-Walter Steinmeier. “But if Hamas does not accept the cease-fire proposal, as it looks now, Israel will have all the international legitimacy in order to achieve the desired quiet.”
nytimes.com/2014/07/16/world/middleeast/israel-gaza-strip.html?hp&action=click&pgtype=Homepage&version=LedeSum&module=first-column-region&region=top-news&WT.nav=top-news&_r=0

The NYT article also makes mentions that Islamic Jihad has officially rejected the ceasefire proposal. During the last Gaza conflict, social and political pressure from hardline groups such as Islamic Jihad pushed Hamas to act more militantly.
 
Coatimundi said:
The NYT article also makes mentions that Islamic Jihad has officially rejected the ceasefire proposal. During the last Gaza conflict, social and political pressure from hardline groups such as Islamic Jihad pushed Hamas to act more militantly.
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Right, being that Hamas is a spin-off of the muslim brotherhood I can’t see where any cease-fire would be acceptable anyway. Israel injected they wanted all missals turned over, that wasn’t going to happen. But realistically Hamas has no use for Israel. None of these people can live together and extreme radical is becoming prevalent in Israel also.

Golda Meir’s famous comment in 1957 to the National Press Club in Washington: “Peace will come when the Arabs will love their children more than they hate us.”🤷

Peace is more probable when Palestine separates itself from Hamas.
 
7_Sorrows said:
EmperorNapolean, graciew, gnjsdad. Please read the article I posted on hamas vs. israel- the moral clarity. I would be interested in your thoughts on the article posted on that thread.
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Hello 7 Sorrows. Sorry for the late response. I’ve read your article and I have to tell you that I agree with Emperor Napoleon. The article, in my opinion, has many inaccuracies.

Israel has no territorial ambitions on Hamas-ruled Gaza. To the contrary, Israel left it totally nine years ago, with the hope of never having to return.

This is untrue. Israel would love to get its hands on Gaza because of its promising offshore deposits of natural gas. It’s the 1.7 million inhabitants of Gaza that Israel doesn’t want. While Israeli ground forces left Gaza in 2005, Israel controls the land, air, and sea borders of Gaza. Gaza’s international airport is not allowed to operate. The port facilities of Gaza can’t function. Israel won’t permit it. Israel has Gaza under a complete economic blockade.

Hamas has a vested interest in using its Gaza base for permanent confrontation with Israel.

This statement offers no practical guidance given the circumstances in Palestine.

Israel, which, alas, can’t change its geography, has a vested interest in a peaceful, moderate, and developing state on its border.

There is so much wrong with this statement, it’s hard to know where to begin. Israel is constantly changing its geography. Ask any Palestinian in East Jerusalem or the West Bank. Ask any resident of South Lebanon. Ask any resident of Golan. Ask any knowledgeable Jordanian familiar with Israeli interest in the Ghor Valley. As for Israel’s border, the whole problem is that no one knows what Israel’s border really is. And as for the peaceful, moderate, developing state on its border, the Likud is doing everything in its power to prevent this. The moment the Palestinians begin to unify is the signal to Israel to adopt it’s “divide and conquer” strategy.

Israel goes to unprecedented lengths to avoid falling into the Hamas trap, even phoning and dropping leaflets in advance to warn civilians to leave target areas.

Little Gaza is one of the most densely populated areas on Earth. These warnings have little meaning when no one in Gaza can go from here to there without the company of an Israeli F16.

Israel makes every effort to alert its entire population, Jewish, Christian, and Muslim, to Hamas missile strikes and move people into shelters as quickly as possible

The Israelis will not allow the importation into Gaza of the materials necessary to construct shelters.

Hamas uses mosques for storing arms.

Hamas uses hospitals as terrorist redoubts.

Hamas uses schools for weapons depots.

These statements are repeated by Israeli apologists as if they were true, yet no evidence exists for them.

Hamas aspires to kill as many Israelis as possible, with rockets fired indiscriminately in all directions.

While this is undeniably true, and constitutes a war crime, the overwhelming evidence is that they have been woefully ineffective. A grand total of 28 Israelis have been killed by such rockets since 2001.
 
ringil said:
Israeli actions have created much of the situation they find themselves in. Thus Israel- or Israeli military and social actions can indeed be the “bad guy”, just as terrorism from Hamas is “the bad guy”.

By continuing to believe and push for debate revolving a notion of Israel’s superior moral position- there will never be peace.

The same holds true for the Palestinians.

The problem is not “Good guy vs. Bad guy”. It is a cycle.
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So there is no “Bad guy” in this, just a perpetual tit for tat? I think that is candy coating the problem a just a tad bit. It is Wahabbism in the form of militant extremist that are driving Mid East Christians from their homeland killing heretical muslims, desecrating churches and mosques in hope of a Caliphate. And now they are upping the ante against Israel. It’s not a cycle it is a pattern.
 
freeRadical said:
Civilian casualties are often an inevitable result of war. How many civilians have been killed in WW1? WW2? Vietnam? Korea? Gulf War? Desert Storm? Iraq and Afghanistan? US Civil War? It doesn’t help that Hamas hides their rockets and themselves among civilians.
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When a random Canadian murders an American, do we respond by lobbing missiles at and shelling Toronto in the hope that we might kill him? Is the US National Guard hiding themselves among civilians? And how do you define civilians in a nation (Israel) in which just about everyone is a conscript?
 
EmperorNapoleon said:
When a random Canadian murders an American, do we respond by lobbing missiles at and shelling Toronto in the hope that we might kill him? Is the US National Guard hiding themselves among civilians? And how do you define civilians in a nation (Israel) in which just about everyone is a conscript?
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First of all, I was referring to the civilians in Gaza.

Second, you think what is Israel is doing is because of these murdered teenagers? It couldn’t have anything to do with Hamas firing rockets into Israel could it?

Third, what do you think the US would do if a terrorist organization in Canada was firing rockets into the US?
 
gnjsdad said:
It does show that Israel’s responses have always been wildly disproportionate.
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That is your opinion. Israel could turn Gaza to glass if it wanted to, not to mention the whole Middle East.
 
freeRadical said:
Third, what do you think the US would do if a terrorist organization in Canada was firing rockets into the US?
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The Mexican military launches incursions into US territory and fires at US Border Patrol Agents all the time. I don’t see us bombing Mexico City.
 
EmperorNapoleon said:
The Mexican military launches incursions into US territory and fires at US Border Patrol Agents all the time. I don’t see us bombing Mexico City.
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The US Border Patrol aren’t civilians are they? What do you think would happen if the Mexican military was launching rockets into US cities?
 
freeRadical said:
The US Border Patrol aren’t civilians are they? What do you think would happen if the Mexican military was launching rockets into US cities?
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Who are the civilians in a society in which everyone is a conscript? Its pretty nebulous territory when everyone is technically part of the military.
 
EmperorNapoleon said:
When a random Canadian murders an American, do we respond by lobbing missiles at and shelling Toronto in the hope that we might kill him? Is the US National Guard hiding themselves among civilians? And how do you define civilians in a nation (Israel) in which just about everyone is a conscript?
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First of all Emperor Napolean, Canada is not governed by a terrorist organization and Canada accepts the existence of America.
You can’t make the comparison.
What is it about terrorism you fail to see?
 
freeRadical said:
Well, when they are conscripted and actively serving in the military then they soldiers, when they aren’t, they are civilians.
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So I could go from, for example, packing a warehouse full of innocent Palestinian women and children then firing white phosphorous shells at it one day to putting on civilian clothes and being off-limits the next? Must be a comforting thought for Israelis.
 
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