Israel 'ready for escalation' of Gaza conflict

[graciew]

So, why the question? Do you believe Israel would be better off laying down their arms?

Perhaps the only legitimate criticism of the Jews leading up to the Holocaust was that they did little initially to defend themselves. One of the many legitimate criticisms of Christians in Germany - Lutheran, Catholic, and Reformed - was they did little and said less to defend the Jews.

Perhaps the Israelis have learned from history.

Jon

No,no. Not along those lines.
The Promised land for us,we know what it is for Christians .For example . And it is no territory on earth.
I do not know if the Promised Land for them or a group means defending that geographical space from a religious point of view as well.
I understand what our territory means to any one of us.
Anyway,drop it. I should ask my Jewish friends,I can be confusing when trying to explain it.
Thanks,Jon

 

[Wildgraywolf]

I’m assuming you’re all Americans…

How would any of you respond to Native Americans indiscriminately launching missiles from their reservations to recover their ancestral lands?

 

[JonNC]

I’m assuming you’re all Americans…

How would any of you respond to Native Americans indiscriminately launching missiles from their reservations to recover their ancestral lands?

Your comment relates to what I called “the code” earlier. Correct?

When Palestinians say they only want the return of “stolen Palestinian land”, they mean all of Israel, as they consider it all stolen Palestinian land.

My response would be the same as it would be if any other Americans, for any reason, were launching rockets at their fellow citizens. Stop them, arrest them, prosecute them.

Jon

 

[7_Sorrows]

I don’ t want to be right, Seraphim. That’s not what I am here in this forum for. They know their motives,I don’t. I am only trying to understand their perspectives, I know my perspective already.

So what exactly is your perspective?

 

[graciew]

So what exactly is your perspective?

The one of a worm praying to learn to see things through God’ eyes.

 

[Wildgraywolf]

Your comment relates to what I called “the code” earlier. Correct?

When Palestinians say they only want the return of “stolen Palestinian land”, they mean all of Israel, as they consider it all stolen Palestinian land.

My response would be the same as it would be if any other Americans, for any reason, were launching rockets at their fellow citizens. Stop them, arrest them, prosecute them.

Jon

No, actually, I agree with you 100%. I’ve read your comments on this thread, they seem reasonable and well thought out and they reflect my own. You have an understanding of history that is strangely lacking in the pro-Palestinian folks. I was wondering moreso what the pro-Palestinian folks would say. Would they “fall on their swords” so-to-speak to avoid hypocrisy or something else?

 

[JonNC]

No, actually, I agree with you 100%. I’ve read your comments on this thread, they seem reasonable and well thought out and they reflect my own. You have an understanding of history that is strangely lacking in the pro-Palestinian folks. I was wondering moreso what the pro-Palestinian folks would say. Would they “fall on their swords” so-to-speak to avoid hypocrisy or something else?

Gotcha. Thanks for the kind words.

My suspicion is that some might say that said Native Americans were justified, but that’s only a suspicion.

Jon

 

[7_Sorrows]

I’m assuming you’re all Americans…

How would any of you respond to Native Americans indiscriminately launching missiles from their reservations to recover their ancestral lands?

Well for one thing native americans aren’t terrorists and they also volunteer to join our military.

 

[graciew]

I’m assuming you’re all Americans…

Yes. That ’ s how I learnt it.
But it happens that your concept of American does not include me.
Fortunately we do not have any material conflict over territory.
If your being American constituted a threat over my national identity , then we would be having in escense an identity conflict.
There is a connection with the topic , isn’ t there.?

 

[Michael_Mayo]

Israeli naval shelling kills four boys on Gaza beach: medics

The Israeli military said the reported civilian casualties were unintended and “tragic” and it was investigating what happened. “Based on preliminary results, the target of this strike was Hamas terrorist operatives,” it said in a statement.

Ahmed Abu Hassera, who witnessed the incident at the shore, told Reuters: “The kids were playing on the beach. They were all … under the age of 15.”

news.yahoo.com/israel-targets-top-hamas-leader-gaza.html

 

[graciew]

I mean a conflict over identity. ( English is my second language).
I am exploring sources of conflict.

 

[Ridgerunner]

Well for one thing native americans aren’t terrorists and they also volunteer to join our military.

Not only that, more of them would be on the receiving end than on the sending end. And if one counted the “part Indian” population, it would be overwhelmingly so.

 

[gnjsdad]

No, actually, I agree with you 100%. I’ve read your comments on this thread, they seem reasonable and well thought out and they reflect my own. You have an understanding of history that is strangely lacking in the pro-Palestinian folks.

What do you, with your understanding of history which I lack, suggest should be done with the Palestinians?

 

[7_Sorrows]

I’m assuming you’re all Americans…

How would any of you respond to Native Americans indiscriminately launching missiles from their reservations to recover their ancestral lands?

Yes. That ’ s how I learnt it.
But it happens that your concept of American does not include me.
Fortunately we do not have any material conflict over territory.
If your being American constituted a threat over my national identity , then we would be having in escense an identity conflict.
There is a connection with the topic , isn’ t there.?

I do have a hard time trying to understand exactly what you are saying.

Like what do you mean by material conflict over territory?

I don’t understand what you mean in your first 2 sentences either.

 

[Michael_Mayo]

I’m assuming you’re all Americans…

How would any of you respond to Native Americans indiscriminately launching missiles from their reservations to recover their ancestral lands?

Yes, who’s land is it? Who has the rightful claim?
And what methods can be used to justly obtain it?

Certainly the honorable thing to do would be to negotiate compromise.

I just heard about the 4 young boys killed. That can have no justification, can it?

 

[Seraphim73]

Yes, who’s land is it? Who has the rightful claim?
And what methods can be used to justly obtain it?

Certainly the honorable thing to do would be to negotiate compromise.

I just heard about the 4 young boys killed. That can have no justification, can it?

There can be no negotiation when one said is committed in a religious sense to the destruction of the other. In the early 1990’s the Palestinians were offered a contiguous state with Jerusalem as it’s capital. Yasser Arrafat responded the only way he knew how, with a new intifada targeting Israeli civilians. When the Israelis responded using incredible restraint to prevent civilian casualties the Palestinians used women and children as a human shield and then used the inevitable pictures of dead children as propaganda to turn world opinion against Israel. The same tactic they’ve used over and over again. They have been offered a state many times since the 1940’s. They have turned it down every time. They don’t want peace. They want the destruction of Israel. Until that changes there will never be peace.

 

[graciew]

I do have a hard time trying to understand exactly what you are saying.

Like what do you mean by material conflict over territory?

I don’t understand what you mean in your first 2 sentences either.

I don’t blame you,7 sorrows . Be at peace. Being a mediator I can’t help trying to analyze things in a different way. It’s a way of learning too. And trying to stay neutral.
Material conflict is territory,for example or conflict upon goods,a house ,cars,for instance,in the case of a divorce,let’s say.
Conflict over identity is more complex. The is a narrative,a meta-narrative…

In my narrative,I am American .In your narrative I am not. I would be South American. I learnt we were all American( south,central and north).

I take it as a compliment you could not tell my perspective,It should not appear in mediation.

Forgive me if I am driving you crazy trying to understand me.
Peace,7 Sorrows.

 

[TheAdvocate]

Israel has a right to defend itself.

Israel is the occupier, and has been illegally since shortly after WWII. The Palestinians had been living there for hundreds of years before they were invaded. And then after they invade, they treat the Palestinians as third-class citizen. They were driven from their homes. And people are surprised that they’re angry and desperate? I am no advocate for violence—certainly not terrorism—but half of those being bombed by the Israelis are civilians, and half of them are children.

Unfortunately, our news media is generally biased toward Israel in their reporting. (We’re all familiar with media bias) I urge you all to try to see how much the Palestinians have been oppressed over the past few decades.

Here’s one source…in general, it’s too liberal for me, but when it comes to Palestine, they’re reporting that which most other media establishments ignore.

democracynow.org/topics/palestine

 

[7_Sorrows]

Hi gracie. Oh now I understand a little better.
I guess I never really identified myself as a north american although I am. We just say american-meaning from the u.s.a.
So I don’t know if you day american or south american.
Are you from Argentina?

I don’t think I really tried learning about the middle east conflict until after 9/11 happened. It is very complicated but after world war I
the ottoman empire broke up after several hundred centuries of existence. I believe during that time they had a caliphate. The ottoman empire was broken up and we got the map of the middle east we know today eventually. Then in 1948 the State of Isrsel was created.
Problems have existed since break up of empire.

 

[7_Sorrows]

The Jews were in Israel thousands of years ago.
They are not illegally occupying their land.