Israel 'ready for escalation' of Gaza conflict

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Darryl1958 said:
For Hamas, there is no hope of winning an actual military offensive. They provoke only, and place photogenic victims in harms way of the inevitable response. They will provoke until they get a response, and that is why a response is inevitable.
They want to see more Palestinians in body bags, because that is sure to inflame the passions of the world, or at least the world with a free press willing to be a part of their propaganda machine. With negative reactions against Israel, what cannot be won in the military field becomes possible through the world itself taking action against Israel, making the Jewish state into the same Jewish pariah that Jews have played for millennia now.

When the world becomes as indifferent to Palestinian deaths as the Palestinian leadership is, then peace itself might become possible.

In the meantime, Palestinians can keep deluding themselves that more and more photogenic war dead among their children is actually a good thing.
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According to this logic then, the inhabitants of Gaza should be helping the IDF with its blockade and attacks.
 
GaryTaylor said:
Israel and the militant group Hamas agreed to a 12-hour lull in fighting beginning early Saturday.
latimes.com/world/middleeast/la-fg-palestinians-day-of-rage-kerry-pushes-ceasefire-20140725-story.html
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At least this will allow residents time to get needed supplies. It might also allow for moving to a safer location. However, Israel said it would retaliate if Hamas took advantage of the ceasefire to launch missiles or other attacks.

A longer term ceasefire was rejected by Israel. They would like to look for (and presumably destroy) tunnels during such a ceasefire. But would Hamas accept that?
 
gnjsdad said:
It is an absolute fact that some people make this assertion.
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Not an assertion.

Fact
Fact
Fact
gnjsdad said:
Actual events are disproving this. The West Bank is erupting in protest…not against Hamas; against Israel. Is it your belief that the Palestinians are so irrational, that they are protesting against the purported protectors of their children (the IDF) and not against their real enemies (Hamas)? If any of this were true, the Palestinians in Gaza would be helping the IDF against Hamas. Anyone paying the slightest bit of attention can see how absurd that notion is.

I’ll say once again that Israel is losing badly here. And the Netanyahu government doesn’t seem to have the first clue and no amount of “hasbara” can change that.
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Of course demonstrations aren’t breaking out against Hamas. The vast majority of Palestinians agree with them that Israel should be destroyed.
 
Coatimundi said:
But would Hamas accept that?
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I don’t see where they have much choice, thus the propaganda which the media is spoon feeding the West. The Ramadan march in Iran and Gaza was a commitment to continue jihad, its in both the Iran news and the above link. That’s not Western propaganda, I can’t see how you can play the moral card while rallying to exterminate Israel and America. Israel appears to want a longer term solution.
 
GaryTaylor said:
I don’t see where they have much choice
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Neither Hamas, nor Israel, feel they have achieved their objectives from this conflict. Until both sides can claim victory, I am not sure a lasting ceasefire is possible.

Israel’s defense minister, on Friday, told troops they should be prepared for a significant widening of the ground operation. Meanwhile, there are rumbles of a possible new intifada in the West Bank.

Weeks of simmering tensions and clashes in the West Bank and East Jerusalem have increased talk among Israelis and Palestinians alike about the specter of a third Palestinian intifada, or uprising.

But many said that such uprisings, by their nature, could not be planned or predicted.

“The intifada does not start by a decision and end by a decision,” said Othman Abu Gharbiya, a member of the Fatah central committee, a decision-making body of the mainstream party that dominates the Palestinian Authority in the West Bank. Still, he said, “no doubt we are passing through a dangerous time.”

nytimes.com/2014/07/26/world/middleeast/israel-gaza-strip.html

Six Palestinians were killed by Israeli security forces during confrontations on Friday.
 
  • Hassan al-Banna, an ally of the Mufti who founded the Muslim Brotherhood in 1928, openly acknowledged the common interests with National Socialist anti-Jewish and anti-Zionist politics, and actively collaborated with the Nazis:
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Code: 
Al-Banna was also fascinated by Hitler. Both hated Jews, democracy, and Western culture. When the war broke out, the Muslim Brothers promised that they would rise up and help General Rommel and make sure to kill the Allies in Egypt. The Muslim Brothers representative for Palestine, the grand Mufti of Jerusalem (al-Husayni), worked for the Third Reich during the war and played a major role in the recruitment of the SS Arab division that would be known as the “SS Handjar.”*
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en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Relations_between_Nazi_Germany_and_the_Arab_world

Hamas was created out of the Muslim Brotherhood movement. Muslim Brotherhood were Nazi collaborators and I’d say they and some of these other extremists share the same kinds of ideals.

This can simply be gleaned from wikipedia.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muslim_Brotherhood

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Middle_Eastern_collaborators_with_Nazi_Germany
 
Path_Finder said:
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Relations_between_Nazi_Germany_and_the_Arab_world

Hamas was created out of the Muslim Brotherhood movement. Muslim Brotherhood were Nazi collaborators and I’d say they and some of these other extremists share the same kinds of ideals.

This can simply be gleaned from wikipedia.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muslim_Brotherhood

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Middle_Eastern_collaborators_with_Nazi_Germany
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Check out the further historic connections.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mohammad_Amin_al-Husayni
 
Ridgerunner said:
I was told the following by a Palestinian who was a very central figure in negotiating the abortive peace agreement brokered by Clinton. I won’t mention his name, but he was in the news photos when the “deal” was announced. It was a complex agreement which included very major funding from the U.S. and Saudi Arabia to build high-end tourist facilities in Gaza, which has some really good beaches. Israel was to provide the knowhow and infrastructure, including power and water. Fatah was to provide the “muscle” to guard the tourists and the facilities. Unfortunately, Arafat stole the money and started the Intifada to cover the theft. Gazans were enraged by that and rejected Fatah politically, embracing its rival, Hamas.
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This is an extremely interesting bit of information! Thanks for posting!

It sounds like the plan was to turn Gaza into a high-end Israeli tourist destination. Fatah would provide the “muscle”, meaning protection, for rich Israeli tourists and foreign Arabs for a cut of the profits. This is without question a part of the Fatah corruption which Palestinians, when given a chance to vote on in 2006, decisively rejected when they voted for Hamas. This is why many Palestinians view Fatah as too willing to sell out to the Israeli agenda.

Some time before 2006 (I’m not sure exactly when), Hamas developed an agenda that included social programs for Palestinian refugees in Gaza and the West Bank (akin to what Hezbollah did in southern Lebanon). It stopped being a strictly paramilitary force that employed terror tactics such a infiltration and suicide bombing inside Israel and became more of a political entity. Its leadership decided it had to grow up and actually govern. Now, I realize many Palestinians are not enamored of Hamas’ extreme Islamic religious focus. They want what all people want: a better life. But when your people are being pounded every day by the IDF, you side with the only ones capable of fighting back.
 
More news…

Israeli police official refutes claim that Hamas kidnapped Israeli teens

The recent explosion of violence in Gaza may have been initially sparked by false or inaccurate claims, according to Israeli police.

The ongoing conflict began last month when three Israeli teenagers were kidnapped from a Jewish settlement in the occupied West Bank. Their bodies were later discovered in a field outside the city of Hebron. Before police were able to determine who was responsible, Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu placed blame for the tragic deaths squarely on Hamas, Gaza’s elected political leadership—an accusation that may prove to be false.
 
gnjsdad said:
This is an extremely interesting bit of information! Thanks for posting!

It sounds like the plan was to turn Gaza into a high-end Israeli tourist destination. Fatah would provide the “muscle”, meaning protection, for rich Israeli tourists and foreign Arabs for a cut of the profits. This is without question a part of the Fatah corruption which Palestinians, when given a chance to vote on in 2006, decisively rejected when they voted for Hamas. This is why many Palestinians view Fatah as too willing to sell out to the Israeli agenda.

Some time before 2006 (I’m not sure exactly when), Hamas developed an agenda that included social programs for Palestinian refugees in Gaza and the West Bank (akin to what Hezbollah did in southern Lebanon). It stopped being a strictly paramilitary force that employed terror tactics such a infiltration and suicide bombing inside Israel and became more of a political entity. Its leadership decided it had to grow up and actually govern. Now, I realize many Palestinians are not enamored of Hamas’ extreme Islamic religious focus. They want what all people want: a better life. But when your people are being pounded every day by the IDF, you side with the only ones capable of fighting back.
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But the only reason they’re in this situation is because of Hamas, thus the Palestinians need to get rid of Hamas.
 
GaryTaylor said:
I don’t see where they have much choice, thus the propaganda which the media is spoon feeding the West. The Ramadan march in Iran and Gaza was a commitment to continue jihad, its in both the Iran news and the above link. That’s not Western propaganda, I can’t see how you can play the moral card while rallying to exterminate Israel and America. Israel appears to want a longer term solution.
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Perhaps it was to do with the fact that the murder count of their fellow innocent citizens has reached almost a thousand.
Your outlook is appalling, shame on you.
 
gnjsdad said:
This is an extremely interesting bit of information! Thanks for posting!

It sounds like the plan was to turn Gaza into a high-end Israeli tourist destination. Fatah would provide the “muscle”, meaning protection, for rich Israeli tourists and foreign Arabs for a cut of the profits. This is without question a part of the Fatah corruption which Palestinians, when given a chance to vote on in 2006, decisively rejected when they voted for Hamas. This is why many Palestinians view Fatah as too willing to sell out to the Israeli agenda.

Some time before 2006 (I’m not sure exactly when), Hamas developed an agenda that included social programs for Palestinian refugees in Gaza and the West Bank (akin to what Hezbollah did in southern Lebanon). It stopped being a strictly paramilitary force that employed terror tactics such a infiltration and suicide bombing inside Israel and became more of a political entity. Its leadership decided it had to grow up and actually govern. Now, I realize many Palestinians are not enamored of Hamas’ extreme Islamic religious focus. They want what all people want: a better life. But when your people are being pounded every day by the IDF, you side with the only ones capable of fighting back.
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One should not believe in a better nature than Hamas has, simply because one would prefer to believe in it.

Hamas is no better than the Mafia would be if the Mafia had an overarching ideology as well as criminal intent. Hamas did not voluntarily stop infiltration and terror bombing in Israel. Israel made it more difficult, so Hamas now uses rockets instead of infiltrators, just as it now uses the suffering of its people to extort money from other nations. Hamas, interestingly, is more Arafat’s “heir” than is Arafat’s Fatah, and learned his methods well.

As I mentioned, Hamas prevailed over Fatah in Gaza because the people of Gaza were outraged by Fatah’s thefts and the destruction of a job-creating opportunity occasioned by those thefts. Now, of course, the criminal organization Hamas has total control of weaponry in Gaza. Nobody can reject Hamas now, no matter what it does, any more than, for 70 years, anybody could have rejected the Communist criminals in the Soviet union, or the Germans could have rejected the Nazis once they were in power.
 
Ridgerunner said:
It was a complex agreement which included very major funding from the U.S. and Saudi Arabia to build high-end tourist facilities in Gaza, which has some really good beaches. Israel was to provide the knowhow and infrastructure, including power and water. Fatah was to provide the “muscle” to guard the tourists and the facilities. Unfortunately, Arafat stole the money and started the Intifada to cover the theft. Gazans were enraged by that and rejected Fatah politically, embracing its rival, Hamas.
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One luxury hotel was built: the al-Mashtal.

theguardian.com/world/2011/aug/08/gaza-first-five-star-hotel

However, it has languished with the continuing economic blockade and the episodic peace. The training camp which Hamas built next door to it might also deter some guests. The place is largely vacant even during peacetime.
 
Gaeilgeoir said:
Perhaps it was to do with the fact that the murder count of their fellow innocent citizens has reached almost a thousand.
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Perhaps when jihad is stopped which it will be, the topic of morality would seem more appropriate. Exterminating the jews and christians in some radical fashion is unacceptable. And the moral card falls on deaf ears as we see with Israel today. I guess they don’t plan on being exterminated by radical jihad agendas that include the sacrifice of the blood of innocents in the name of Mohammed.
 
GaryTaylor said:
Perhaps when jihad is stopped which it will be, the topic of morality would seem more appropriate. Exterminating the jews and christians in some radical fashion is unacceptable. And the moral card falls on deaf ears as we see with Israel today. I guess they don’t plan on being exterminated by radical jihad agendas that include the sacrifice of the blood of innocents in the name of Mohammed.
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The Christian churches in Palistine are now opening their doors to Muslims seeking shelter from the Satanic Israeli onslaught.
Seems your Zionist logic is being left behind by actual Christian thinking in the middle east.

telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/middleeast/israel/10986779/Gaza-churches-open-doors-to-refugees-from-Israel-offensive.html
 
josie_L said:
Is Hamas in any way responsible for the plight of the Palestinians?
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After 19 days in which the Satanic Israeli government have slaughtered over 1000 innocent citizens unjustifiably, why the flood of urgency to put an emphasis on Hamas?

Unless to mask over the actions of the child killers.
Israel is perpretrating holocaust, a process which they began long before the emergence of Hamas.
 
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