It is the Catholic Church that makes us Christians.....

[wisdomseeker]

I have the “desire” to obey God in all things…but my conscience forbids me to undergo a ritual washing of water in order to please God when I cannot convince myself that it is a necessary ritual to be a follower of Jesus Christ nor to experience His abiding Presence in my life…to me to undergo a ritual for ritual’s sake would be hypocritical…I would think being a hypocrite would be much more offensive to God than refusing to get my head wet from someone chanting/speaking a “correct” formula as they wet my head with water…which I would believe did nothing other than wet my head.

Yeah, how hard it is to believe our Lord. For the same reason many left Him. It is hard for you, specially if you have no authority to tell you the Truth.

As Catholics, we are borne into the Truth, we are conformed from birth. So, we have no problem in believing in the Faith given by our Lord to His Church. It is such a blessing to be able to know and accept the authority in the Church giving to us by Christ.

**Psalms 127:1
“Unless the Lord builds the house, those who build it labor in vain. Unless the Lord watches over the city, the watchman stays awake in vain.” **

 

[Publisher]

Yeah, how hard it is to believe our Lord. For the same reason many left Him. It is hard for you, **specially if you have no authority to tell you the Truth. **

As Catholics, we are borne into the Truth, we are conformed from birth. So, we have no problem in believing in the Faith given by our Lord to His Church. It is such a blessing to be able to know and accept the authority in the Church giving to us by Christ.

**Psalms 127:1
“Unless the Lord builds the house, those who build it labor in vain. Unless the Lord watches over the city, the watchman stays awake in vain.” **

Yes, it’s obviously quite difficult…whether one is born into the Catholic faith or not.

 

[jam070406]

“Lord i believe, help my unbelief”…I just can’t believe God would rather find me hypocritical in the matter of water baptism over being faithful to what I can believe.

No one has answered my question…is not being able to beleive in the efficacy of water baptism more offensive than hypocricy?

Not being able to believe or refusing to believe?
That is why you must pray.

 

[wisdomseeker]

“Lord i believe, help my unbelief”…I just can’t believe God would rather find me hypocritical in the matter of water baptism over being faithful to what I can believe.

No one has answered my question…is not being able to beleive in the efficacy of water baptism more offensive than hypocricy?

It is impossible to please God with disobedience. How do you measure hyprocicy? who is the hypocrit? those who believe and do and those who disobey?

The structure of the CC is the same as it was at the times of the Apostles. Gentile and Jews had to rely on the words of the Apostles for they knew not what to believe if the Sent had not told them. and That is why they asked, “what mus i do to be saved?” those who did not believe the Apostles then, were not justified. Neither, we are justified today, for not believing in those whom the Apostles sent. Do not kiddy yourself just because it has 2000 yrs since Jesus and Apostles.

God loves those who Worship HIm in Truth and not in falsehoods.

**Psalms 127:1
“Unless the Lord builds the house, those who build it labor in vain. Unless the Lord watches over the city, the watchman stays awake in vain.” **

 

[Publisher]

Not being able to believe or** refusing to believe**?
That is why you must pray.

I have tried to answer honestly…candidly…faithfully…and yet…I can see that the only way to "prove’ my sincerity is to finally accept your understanding…even though I cannot do so in good conscience…so “not being able to” appears to be “refusing to” in your estimation? Interesting I must say.

I am forever grateful it is in Him I trust…and it is in His Presence I will one day give account…thankfully your estimation will not enter into the equation.

 

[Publisher]

Not being able to believe or** refusing to believe**?
That is why you must pray.

I pray daily…often…sincerely seeking the will of God in my life…seeking His will…I assume it must be a lack of sincerity on my part since “not being able to believe”…even though I have studied the matter…deeply…prayerfully…sincerely…but the caricature of “refusing to believe” still is put forth…it must be comforting to know another’s heart so well.

I have tried to answer honestly…candidly…faithfully…and yet…I can see that the only way to "prove’ my sincerity is to finally accept your understanding…even though I cannot do so in good conscience…so “not being able to” appears to be “refusing to” in your estimation? Interesting I must say.

 

[Publisher]

It is impossible to please God with disobedience. How do you measure hyprocicy? who is the hypocrit? those who believe and do and those who disobey?

The structure of the CC is the same as it was at the times of the Apostles. Gentile and Jews had to rely on the words of the Apostles for they knew not what to believe if the Sent had not told them. and That is why they asked, “what mus i do to be saved?” those who did not believe the Apostles then, were not justified. Neither, we are justified today, for not believing in those whom the Apostles sent. Do not kiddy yourself just because it has 2000 yrs since Jesus and Apostles.

God loves those who Worship HIm in Truth and not in falsehoods.

**Psalms 127:1
“Unless the Lord builds the house, those who build it labor in vain. Unless the Lord watches over the city, the watchman stays awake in vain.” **

Thankfully, I am an open book before Him…thankfully it is He and He alone who knows my heart…

 

[wisdomseeker]

I have tried to answer honestly…candidly…faithfully…and yet…I can see that the only way to "prove’ my sincerity is to finally accept your understanding…even though I cannot do so in good conscience…so “not being able to” appears to be “refusing to” in your estimation? Interesting I must say.

I am forever grateful it is in Him I trust…and it is in His Presence I will one day give account…thankfully your estimation will not enter into the equation.

Your problem is a lack of understanding who you should believe. Or you trust yourself more than you trust God. Honestly.

you and me are commanded by God to believe in those whom He sent. You have not sought whom God sent. this is a problem for you. 2000 years later, you cannot come to the knowledge of God without someone telling you about Him. The problem is who told you about God, that made you doubt in the Holy Catholic Church?

 

[jam070406]

I have tried to answer honestly…candidly…faithfully…and yet…I can see that the only way to "prove’ my sincerity is to finally accept your understanding…even though I cannot do so in good conscience…so “not being able to” appears to be “refusing to” in your estimation? Interesting I must say.

I am forever grateful it is in Him I trust…and it is in His Presence I will one day give account…thankfully your estimation will not enter into the equation.

Sorry, didn’t mean to offend. Your attitude towards baptism thus far has come off to me as being rather flippant. Perhaps you should consider that when Catholics discuss their Faith with you they take articles of their Faith very serious.

 

[Publisher]

It must be wonderful to be able to walk through the mind and hearts of others and know so much about them.

 

[jam070406]

I have tried to answer honestly…candidly…faithfully…and yet…I can see that the only way to "prove’ my sincerity is to finally accept your understanding…even though I cannot do so in good conscience…so “not being able to” appears to be “refusing to” in your estimation? Interesting I must say.

I am forever grateful it is in Him I trust…and it is in His Presence I will one day give account…thankfully your estimation will not enter into the equation.

My estimation? It’s Divine revelation my friend.

 

[Publisher]

Sorry, didn’t mean to offend. Your attitude towards baptism thus far has come off to me as being rather flippant. Perhaps you should consider that when Catholics or Quakers discuss their Faith with you they take articles of their Faith very serious.

Am I not allowed to discuss my beliefs on this forum without the “flippant” responses as well?

Should I not be accorded the same courtesy? Is it assumed that one who does not share your faith tradition or beliefs by default is “flippant”?

Tell me…how would you wish me to discuss my belief concerning water baptism that you can accept as not possessing an “attitude”?

If I have “offended” you by my responses…it was not intended…is it my responses to your questions you find offensive…or my “attitude”…I have sought to be as pleasant and as courteous as possible…even against out right agression and in my opinion insults and accusations concerning the state of my mind and heart.

 

[jam070406]

Publisher:
Am I not allowed to discuss my beliefs on this forum without the “flippant” responses as well?

Should I not be accorded the same courtesy?

Not sure what you are referring to.
We have been discussing baptism and you have tossed aside any considerations people have presented to you.

 

[wisdomseeker]

Publisher:
Am I not allowed to discuss my beliefs on this forum without the “flippant” responses as well?

Should I not be accorded the same courtesy?

Yes, you are more than welcome to express your beliefs here. No one is telling you not to. But you must understand that we are Catholics who believe in teh Church that Jesus found, therefore our faith in way can be considered just some faith like many others. The CC claims and holds to teach all that Christ tought.

 

[Publisher]

Not sure what you are referring to.
We have been discussing baptism and you have tossed aside any considerations people have presented to you.

“Tossed aside” or simply stated I do not accept your understanding? Is any statement of “disagreement” considered now rude and offensive?

 

[jam070406]

“Tossed aside” or simply stated I do not accept your understanding? Is any statement of “disagreement” considered now rude and offensive?

You state like fact that “ritual water washing” is not salvific but merely a “wetting our heads” for “fire insurance”.
This is respect shown to the Catholic sacrament of Baptism?

Btw, as far as I know I have never mentioned Quackers or their beliefs.

 

[Publisher]

You state like fact that “ritual water washing” is not salvific but merely a “wetting our heads” for “fire insurance”.
This is respect shown to the Catholic sacrament of Baptism?

Btw, as far as I know I have never mentioned Quackers or their beliefs.

I apologize if that was offensive…I was seeking to convey what I considered it to be…it was not a reflection on your faith or traditions.

I have no wish to get into a “tit-for-tat” with you…if you were offended…I was wrong to state it in such a way…however no offense was intended…it was still offensive to you so the offense whether intentional or not was mine.

 

[jam070406]

I apologize if that was offensive…I was seeking to convey what I considered it to be…it was not a reflection on your faith or traditions.

I have no wish to get into a “tit-for-tat” with you…if you were offended…I was wrong to state it in such a way…however no offense was intended…it was still offensive to you so the offense whether intentional or not was mine.

Thanks. Peace be with you.
I pray that you may be driven to seek deeper understanding and that you may be illumined by the Holy Spirit.

 

[Publisher]

Thanks. **Peace be with you.**I pray that you may be driven to seek deeper understanding and that you may be illumined by the Holy Spirit.

And also with you.

 

[jam070406]

I apologize if that was offensive…I was seeking to convey what I considered it to be…it was not a reflection on your faith or traditions.

I have no wish to get into a “tit-for-tat” with you…if you were offended…I was wrong to state it in such a way…however no offense was intended…it was still offensive to you so the offense whether intentional or not was mine.

I apologize if I ever came off as offensive. Forgive me for getting agitated.