Italian writer stirs a hornet’s nest with doubts about Pope Francis

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ROME — For those in and around the Vatican, the most talked-about piece of rhetoric during the holiday season has been Pope Francis’s Dec. 22 blast at the Roman Curia. A close second, however, has been Vittorio Messori’s own Dec. 24 fusillade at the pope, published in the Italian paper of record, Corriere della Sera.

Under the headline, “Doubts about the turning point of Pope Francis,” Messori wrote that “my evaluation of this papacy oscillates continually between adhesion and perplexity,” and also asserted that Francis’ unpredictability has caused even “some of the cardinals who were among his electors to have second thoughts.”

Messori did not name any repentant cardinals, but his claim has been taken seriously because he is Italy’s most famous living Catholic writer, the man whose 1984 interview book with then-Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger, The Ratzinger Report, made the future pope a star.

cruxnow.com/church/2014/12/30/italian-writer-stirs-hornets-nest-with-doubts-about-pope-francis/?s_campaign=crux:email:daily
 
gilliam said:
ROME — For those in and around the Vatican, the most talked-about piece of rhetoric during the holiday season has been Pope Francis’s Dec. 22 blast at the Roman Curia. A close second, however, has been Vittorio Messori’s own Dec. 24 fusillade at the pope, published in the Italian paper of record, Corriere della Sera.

Under the headline, “Doubts about the turning point of Pope Francis,” Messori wrote that “my evaluation of this papacy oscillates continually between adhesion and perplexity,” and also asserted that Francis’ unpredictability has caused even “some of the cardinals who were among his electors to have second thoughts.”

Messori did not name any repentant cardinals, but his claim has been taken seriously because he is Italy’s most famous living Catholic writer, the man whose 1984 interview book with then-Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger, The Ratzinger Report, made the future pope a star.

cruxnow.com/church/2014/12/30/italian-writer-stirs-hornets-nest-with-doubts-about-pope-francis/?s_campaign=crux:email:daily
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This is actually an interesting little article, but it seems to just boil down to more of the same, i.e., everybody’s confusion about where the Pope stands, a pretty justifiable state considering his seemingly contradictory comments, actions, etc. It’s getting to be an old story. Personally I am pretty pro Francis right now but I do get the enthusiasm knocked out of me from time to time by some comment or news article, so I am not getting too comfortable just in case. We’ve been through this time and again, but I think the problem really is that he is unscripted, off the cuff. Doesn’t play by the rules 24/7. Both sides infer way too much from that in terms of ‘WHERE THE CHURCH IS HEADED.’ Style vs. substance. We have been through this.
 
gilliam said:
ROME — For those in and around the Vatican, the most talked-about piece of rhetoric during the holiday season has been Pope Francis’s Dec. 22 blast at the Roman Curia. A close second, however, has been Vittorio Messori’s own Dec. 24 fusillade at the pope, published in the Italian paper of record, Corriere della Sera.

Under the headline, “Doubts about the turning point of Pope Francis,” Messori wrote that “my evaluation of this papacy oscillates continually between adhesion and perplexity,” and also asserted that Francis’ unpredictability has caused even “some of the cardinals who were among his electors to have second thoughts.”

Messori did not name any repentant cardinals, but his claim has been taken seriously because he is Italy’s most famous living Catholic writer, the man whose 1984 interview book with then-Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger, The Ratzinger Report, made the future pope a star.

cruxnow.com/church/2014/12/30/italian-writer-stirs-hornets-nest-with-doubts-about-pope-francis/?s_campaign=crux:email:daily
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I share these feelings.

Most of the time the Pope sounds like just another leftist propagandist, although I believe he is sincere, honest, and well meaning.

His foray into the global warming debate is a huge embarrassment. I hope it fades away before doing real damage to the Church.
 
gilliam said:
ROME — For those in and around the Vatican, the most talked-about piece of rhetoric during the holiday season has been Pope Francis’s Dec. 22 blast at the Roman Curia. A close second, however, has been Vittorio Messori’s own Dec. 24 fusillade at the pope, published in the Italian paper of record, Corriere della Sera.

Under the headline, “Doubts about the turning point of Pope Francis,” Messori wrote that “my evaluation of this papacy oscillates continually between adhesion and perplexity,” and also asserted that Francis’ unpredictability has caused even “some of the cardinals who were among his electors to have second thoughts.”

Messori did not name any repentant cardinals, but his claim has been taken seriously because he is Italy’s most famous living Catholic writer, the man whose 1984 interview book with then-Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger, The Ratzinger Report, made the future pope a star.

cruxnow.com/church/2014/12/30/italian-writer-stirs-hornets-nest-with-doubts-about-pope-francis/?s_campaign=crux:email:daily
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Pope Francis has made it clear that the status quo must change. I am not surprised he has detractors, as change is often scary, especially for those in positions of power. God Bless Pope Francis.
 
Mulligan2 said:
Pope Francis has made it clear that the status quo must change. I am not surprised he has detractors, as change is often scary, especially for those in positions of power. God Bless Pope Francis.
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Why is he pushing the leftist status quo with regard to global warming?
 
I’m no longer convinced that the media always get’s Pope Francis wrong.I know how the author feels.
 
It seems quite clear if you want universal, socialist control, you have much hope in the Pope.
If you cling to the freedom God has intended for us, you have considerable concern about some of the Pope’s statements, or at least the translations and interpretations, which sadly are often dubious.
 
CHESTERTONRULES said:
Why is he pushing the leftist status quo with regard to global warming?
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The status quo needing to change has nothing to do with global warming. It has to do with the complacent, sclerotic Vatican bureaucracy. People get upset when traditions of men (not Sacred Traditions) are violently truncated. Francis is comorting the afflicted and afflicting the comfortable. Under Francis, I hope we see no more bishops who fill the thrones of the Apostles but not their shoes; no more looking the other way when scandal and corruption happens on their watch; no more “bishops of bling”.

Say what you want about global warming. Just because Francis agrees with it existing doesn’t mean he’s been influenced by the Left, or the eugenics industrial complex, or whoever. Maybe he truly sees it as a problem. I don’t know if I believe in global warming, but it’s not like he’s obsessing on it.

Seriously, people just need to lighten up and give Francis a break.
 
Seamus_L said:
I’m no longer convinced that the media always get’s Pope Francis wrong.I know how the author feels.
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Can you give an example of where you think the media gets him right? Even the pope has said not to trust the media’s reports about his views: “Look, I wrote an encyclical, true enough, it was a big job, and an Apostolic Exhortation, I’m permanently making statements, giving homilies; that’s teaching. That’s what I think, not what the media say that I think.” source
 
eschator83 said:
It seems quite clear if you want universal, socialist control, you have much hope in the Pope.
If you cling to the freedom God has intended for us, you have considerable concern about some of the Pope’s statements, or at least the translations and interpretations, which sadly are often dubious.
Click to expand...
For every “liberal” statement Francis makes, a “conservative” one he says goes ignored. For example:

“I’m no Marxist”
“Attempts to redefine family are machinations of the father of lies”
“All children deserve a mother and father”
“Jesus Christ cannot be found outside the Catholic Church”

The reason Francis comes off as left-of-center is because he lived under Argentina’s military dictatorship. What he truly wants is an end to the left-right false dichotomy. Ideologies are idolatry, and have no place in Catholicism.
 
Man will never be free until the last king is strangled with the entrails of the last priest.

Denis Diderot
 
moondawg said:
Man will never be free until the last king is strangled with the entrails of the last priest.

Denis Diderot
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:eek: That quote reveals a frightening mindset, unless I’m missing something. What’s so bad about kings and priests?
 
moondawg said:
Man will never be free until the last king is strangled with the entrails of the last priest.

Denis Diderot
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And people say religion causes violence…

You kill the kings and the priests, you don’t get a bunch of libertarians keeping their distance, respecting each other’s rights, and “living and letting live”. You get vandalism, riots, and madness that has people yearning for order, to the point where they accept tyrants. Cases-in-point, post-Revolution, pre-Napoleonic France, and Somalia in the '90s.
 
dmar198 said:
:eek: That quote reveals a frightening mindset, unless I’m missing something. What’s so bad about kings and priests?
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It arguably shows what the atheists, anarchists, and nihilists truly want but are too afraid to say. Look at the French Revolution (the body count of which dwarfed the Inquisition): the moment they got political power, they started slaughtering anyone who didn’t agree with them with gleeful impunity.
 
gilliam said:
rome — for those in and around the vatican, the most talked-about piece of rhetoric during the holiday season has been pope francis’s dec. 22 blast at the roman curia. A close second, however, has been vittorio messori’s own dec. 24 fusillade at the pope, published in the italian paper of record, corriere della sera.

Under the headline, “doubts about the turning point of pope francis,” messori wrote that “my evaluation of this papacy oscillates continually between adhesion and perplexity,” and also asserted that francis’ unpredictability has caused even “some of the cardinals who were among his electors to have second thoughts.”

messori did not name any repentant cardinals, but his claim has been taken seriously because he is italy’s most famous living catholic writer, the man whose 1984 interview book with then-cardinal joseph ratzinger, the ratzinger report, made the future pope a star.

cruxnow.com/church/2014/12/30/italian-writer-stirs-hornets-nest-with-doubts-about-pope-francis/?s_campaign=crux:email:daily
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ho hum.
 
Memaw said:
ho hum.
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👍 Exactly. I cannot understand why John Allen would write an article of this sort, nor why Gilliam would think it was a good idea to begin a thread on it. 😦 Is it true that anything goes, provided it is a news article, even a shoddy one?
 
I think part of his problem is that many Catholic Americans don’t use Christ as their prism (where Francis clearly does) but rather their politics.

Being a disciple of Christ has nothing to do with politics. The Gospel has nothing to do with politics.
 
dmar198 said:
Can you give an example of where you think the media gets him right? Even the pope has said not to trust the media’s reports about his views: “Look, I wrote an encyclical, true enough, it was a big job, and an Apostolic Exhortation, I’m permanently making statements, giving homilies; that’s teaching. That’s what I think, not what the media say that I think.” source
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I’m with the Pope and NOT the media. Time will tell and I intend to be on the right side with God and HIS Church. HE did leave the Holy Spirit in charge did HE not??? God Bless, Memaw
 
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