James White Has Completely Lost It [Akin]

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Dear Ani: Regarding Beckwith: Is it okay if I engage in a LITTLE hero worship?
 
cpayne said:
Dear Ani: Regarding Beckwith: Is it okay if I engage in a LITTLE hero worship?
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:hmmm: nyeeeh… what’s it worth 2 ya?

edit: are you sure you don’t want a groovier ETS President? Special student price?
 
sandusky said:
You’ve obviously never read Luther’s Bondage of the Will, and his responses to Erasmus.

Luther is a Christian worth his salt, and quite humorous as well. 🙂

That’s what I said—some. QED. 🙂

I’m a decent guy, and I found it funny, and apropos. 😉

That’s not news; it’s typical of some Catholics to label the writings, and utterances of those who disagree with them as “filled with hate,” and, as maggieodae states, “angry.” :tiphat:
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So someone who calls White to be charitable is the same as the the Islamic bombers? It is truely amazing that you will actually try to defend this.
 
kaycee said:
It appears that Beckwith is being used as the poster child by Catholic apologists on radio and TV to bring “separated brethren” back to mother church.

Did you expect their not to be a reaction when someone who professed to know the Gospel, walks away from the Gospel of Grace and is being paraded about to draw others away? :confused:
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Actually he took a step toward the gospel of Grace with his conversion. To be seperated from the body of Christ is to be seperated from the Grace of God. The (Catholic) Church is the body of Christ as Paul makes clear in his epistle to the Ephesians.
 
kaycee said:
Seems to be much easier to demonize JW, than to engage his arguments.
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JBaker45 said:
I believe that he really would love to have a substantial discussion if one were offered to him.
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What are you guys talking about?

See post #74
When you make comments about how White hasn’t had anyone respond to his arguments, you sound like you just walked in at the end of the discussion, cuz it’s factually not the case. And let’s not forget all the debates he’s had with Catholics…I didn’t even link to those.

White has had more attention than he deserves, and he is now building his ad hominem attack resume.

Crazy as this may sound at this point (and of course speculatively), I think thanks to many of the prayers of those on this forum and others, I think James White is closer to converting to Catholicism than ever. His attention is quite stirred. God works in many ways.
 
What do you all think of starting a prayer thread for him on the prayer forum? I would ask that his memories, emotions, and relationships be healed. Suggestions?
 
Ani_Ibi said:
What do you all think of starting a prayer thread for him on the prayer forum? I would ask that his memories, emotions, and relationships be healed. Suggestions?
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Couldn’t hurt. Divine Mercy Chaplet? 🙂
 
Church_Militant said:
Couldn’t hurt. Divine Mercy Chaplet? 🙂
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These are excellent ideas.

Remember, strictly theological polemics are one thing, but when they get entangled with personal attacks they generate bitterness that must be healed. The Divine Mercy Chaplet is a wonderful idea, among others.
 
Church_Militant said:
Couldn’t hurt. Divine Mercy Chaplet? 🙂
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Sure. Let’s wait a few hours more to see if anyone has more suggestions as to what we can put on Dr White’s prayer petition list.

So instead of this being its own prayer thread like the one you started for our friend’s little daughter, it would just added onto the end of the Divine Mercy Chaplet?
 
jj2011 said:
These are excellent ideas.

Remember, strictly theological polemics are one thing, but when they get entangled with personal attacks they generate bitterness that must be healed. The Divine Mercy Chaplet is a wonderful idea, among others.
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Yeh! Cool!
We can ask that bitterness be healed among us.
We can ask that God put forgiveness in our hearts.

Any more thoughts?
 
Ani_Ibi said:
Sure. Let’s wait a few hours more to see if anyone has more suggestions as to what we can put on Dr White’s prayer petition list.

So instead of this being its own prayer thread like the one you started for our friend’s little daughter, it would just added onto the end of the Divine Mercy Chaplet?
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I don’t know…I kinda think this deserves its own DMC y’know?
Ani_Ibi said:
Yeh! Cool!
We can ask that bitterness be healed among us.
We can ask that God put forgiveness in our hearts.

Any more thoughts?
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So far so good. I especially like the optional opening prayer.

You expired, Jesus,
but the source of life gushed forth for souls,
and the ocean of mercy opened up for the whole world.

O Fount of Life, unfathomable Divine Mercy,
envelop the whole world and empty Yourself out upon us.

O Blood and Water, which gushed forth from the Heart of Jesus as a fountain of Mercy for us, I trust in You!
 
Ani_Ibi said:
Yeh! Cool!
We can ask that bitterness be healed among us.
We can ask that God put forgiveness in our hearts.

Any more thoughts?
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Yes. As Catholic apologists we assume-- or at least, ought to assume-- a higher burden than our adversaries. It’s necessary to critique their beliefs and argumentation, of course, but we ought to abstain strictly from ad hominem attacks that generate bitterness, even if “the other guys” have done it to us. By implying that our adversaries have “lost it” or “gone mental,” we only solidify them in their beliefs.

We should resist the temptation to repay ad hominem attacks in kind or, like kids on any playground, indulge in endless arguments about who started it. We should not lash out at our opponents because they have not been blown away by our refutations of their work.

In addition to the Chaplet, I recommend the prayers from the Divine Mercy Novena, for conversion. In the original pre-Vatican II edition, these were for the conversion of heretics and schismatics, like the Good Friday orations; now in more recent editions the traditional nomenclature has been replaced with “separated brethren.”

Catholic theologians sometimes speak of “efficacious” grace-- grace that is so powerful that it literally cannot be resisted. We should pray that Mr. White will receive such an efficacious grace.
I certainly do.
 
Ani_Ibi said:
What do you all think of starting a prayer thread for him on the prayer forum? I would ask that his memories, emotions, and relationships be healed. Suggestions?
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I thought of the same thing Ani! I think you should do it. 🙂

I’d also include that he have the strength and courage to embrace all truths even if they result in his transformation, which could be painful. I’d also include that he receive charity from those with whom he encounters.
 
Hello Penitus,
Penitus said:
I suggest you go read the documents of Trent on the Catholic view of grace and salvation and report back here to see what you find.
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Here is what I have found…

In spite of what Catholicism states, the Bible speaks differently. Following each Canon is a list of appropriate scriptures countering the Catholic position.

Part I :

  1. *]CANON 9: “If any one saith, that by faith alone the impious is justified; in such wise as to mean, that nothing else is required to co-operate in order to the obtaining the grace of Justification, and that it is not in any way necessary, that he be prepared and disposed by the movement of his own will; let him be anathema.”

    • *]“Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin” (Rom. 3:20).
      *]“Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus” (Rom. 3:24).
      *]“Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law” (Rom. 3:28).
      *]“For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness” (Rom. 4:3).
      *]“Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ” (Rom. 5:1).
      *]“For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God” (Eph. 2:8).
      *]“Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost” (Titus 3:5).

      *]CANON 12: “If any one shall say that justifying faith is nothing else than confidence in the divine mercy pardoning sins for Christ’s sake, or that it is that confidence alone by which we are justified … let him be accursed.”

      • *]“But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name” (John 1:12).
        *]“Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law” (Rom. 3:28).
        *]‘For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness" (Rom. 4:3).
        *]"Wherefore he is able also to save them to the uttermost that come unto God by him, seeing he ever liveth to make intercession for them. For such an high priest became us, who is holy, harmless, undefiled, separate from sinners, and made higher than the heavens; 27Who needeth not daily, as those high priests, to offer up sacrifice, first for his own sins, and then for the peoples’: for this he did once, when he offered up himself" (Heb. 7:25-27).
        *]“For the which cause I also suffer these things: nevertheless I am not ashamed: for I know whom I have believed, and am persuaded that he is able to keep that which I have committed unto him against that day” (2 Tim. 1:12).
        *]Canon 14: “If any one saith, that man is truly absolved from his sins and justified, because that he assuredly believed himself absolved and justified; or, that no one is truly justified but he who believes himself justified; and that, by this faith alone, absolution and justification are effected; let him be anathema.”
        “For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness” (Rom. 4:3).
        “Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ” (Rom. 5:1).

        [Continued…]
 
Part ] :

  1. *]Canon 23: “lf any one saith, that a man once justified can sin no more, nor lose grace, and that therefore he that falls and sins was never truly justified; or, on the other hand, that he is able, during his whole life, to avoid all sins, even those that are venial,- except by a special privilege from God, as the Church holds in regard of the Blessed Virgin; let him be anathema.”

    • *]“He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him” (John 3:36).
      *]“And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day” (John 6:40).
      *]“And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand” (John 10:28).
      *]“That as sin hath reigned unto death, even so might grace reign through righteousness unto eternal life by Jesus Christ our Lord” (Rom. 5:21).
      *]“They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us” (1 John 2:19).
      *]“These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God” (1 John 5:13).

      *]Canon 24: “If any one saith, that the justice received is not preserved and also increased before God through good works; but that the said works are merely the fruits and signs of Justification obtained, but not a cause of the increase thereof; let him be anathema.”

      • *]“O foolish Galatians, who hath bewitched you, that ye should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ hath been evidently set forth, crucified among you? 2This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith? 3Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh?” (Gal. 3:1-3)
        *]“Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage. 2Behold, I Paul say unto you, that if ye be circumcised, Christ shall profit you nothing. 3For I testify again to every man that is circumcised, that he is a debtor to do the whole law” (Gal. 5:1-3).

        *]Canon 30: “If any one saith, that, after the grace of Justification has been received, to every penitent sinner the guilt is remitted, and the debt of eternal punishment is blotted out in such wise, that there remains not any debt of temporal punishment to be discharged either in this world, or in the next in Purgatory, before the entrance to the kingdom of heaven can be opened (to him); let him be anathema.”

        • *]“Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ” (Rom. 5:1).
          *]“And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses; 14Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross” (Col. 2:13-14).

          *]Canon 33: "If any one saith, that, by the Catholic doctrine touching Justification, by this holy Synod inset forth in this present decree, the glory of God, or the merits of our Lord Jesus Christ are in any way derogated from, and not rather that the truth of our faith, and the glory in fine of God and of Jesus Christ are rendered (more) illustrious; let him be anathema.

          • *]This council declares that if anyone disagrees with it, they are damned.

            Peace to you,
            John
 
I started a prayer thread for James White:

Prayers for James White

Click here for computers and here for servers.

CM, can you arrange with the other poster who will post the Divine Mercy Chaplet and who will post the Divine Mercy Novena and when? Thank you.
 
JBaker45 said:
ROTFL - The pictures are his very humorous response to the false accusations silly 🙂
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When you get up off that floor laughing you might reconsider in the context of how you would feel if someone did something similar to your particular “Protestant (Reformed)” community.

The very term “fatwa” has very definite non-Christian meaning.

I realize that you, White, and many other a-Cs consider us non-Christian in spite of all the evidence to the contrary, but to use doctored photos that carry such extreme negative connotations and then attempt to tell us all to “get a sense of humor”, “lighten up”, etc, is not only insensitive and inconsiderate, but displays a complete lack of Christ-like concern for the souls of others.

I don’t think for a second that Our lord has laughed at Mr. White’s supposed humor, especially if, as you and White are prone to often tell us, you are right and we are wrong.

If that were true, (which it is not), then the offense he has given and which has repelled so many of us from his message, not because of the Gospel, but because of his behavior and “presentation” of it could well mean that souls that otherwise might have been converted will turn away from the Gospel and so be lost forever.

Now I also know that many of you are Calvinists of some degree and so believe that the saved are completely predestined to be saved, and cannot lose that salvation, but IMV, this only points up the fallacy of that belief system since it seems to encourage the display of smug disregard for the souls of others who, for whatever reason, do not share your thinking and convictions. Therefore, some of you feel free to self-righteously mistreat others just as White has done Catholics here.

Personally, I feel that White’s message is wasted on most of us from now on. Again, not because of the Gospel…but because of his personal behavior and attitude towards us as Catholics. This is not the first time I have seen this sort of disregard for others in n-C people, and every time the result is the same. The person rejects the bearer of the Good News and the Good News itself, possibly to their ultimate condemnation. I would not want to have to account for that when I stood before Our Lord.
 
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