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GKC
Guest
You are welcome. I’m not fond of the man, but this seems to be a nonstarter. As it were.Ah, that would be a reasonable explanation.
Thanks.
GKC
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asia53
Guest
Incorrect!Also, bear in mind, that Japan has never apologized to anyone for the atrocities they committed against everyone they conquered in Asia during the 1930’s and '40’s.
This article lists all the apologies made by Japan to Korea starting in 1965.
japanprobe.com/2010/02/12/yet-another-japanese-apology-to-korea/
Japan has also made several apologies to China, and to all Asian people. Here’s a list of every apology made by Japan.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_war_apology_statements_issued_by_Japan
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Robert_Bay
Guest
MODERATOR NOTICE
Please post charitably
Please do not use inappropriate language
Please charitably discuss the issues, not each other
Please post charitably
Please do not use inappropriate language
Please charitably discuss the issues, not each other
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Ridgerunner
Guest
The U.S. went to war with Germany and Italy, as well as Japan. All of them were very well treated after the war, (except the war criminals, who were tried for their crimes) and those who experienced it were not hesitant to say it. Many American soldiers married those women you say they thought were subhuman. I have known some of them.en.wikipedia.org/wiki/My_Lai_Massacre
read it then you tell me about japan, America is just as guilty, only difference is they get away with it. but American history and culture says everyone they go to war with isnt human so hey your families are inhuman if someone goes to war with you, you teach the world that you should be treated as subhuman
I live not far from a place in the U.S. where German and Italian prisoners of war were interned during the war. After the war was over, a significant number of them decided not to leave, and applied to stay, despite the fact that the Americans would send them back if they wanted.
American history and culture in no way teaches that enemies in war are subhuman.
I will not argue that the Russians (and Germans) treated Poles as subhuman. But those countries that were occupied by Americans certainly were not.
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Mar044
Guest
rather then sight what i know, explain this
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-Japanese_sentiment
during war they were treated that way, and after the war history books and people defending the drop of the bomb, defend it like only American or allies were saved, but nobody says at the expense of the Japanese.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-Japanese_sentiment
during war they were treated that way, and after the war history books and people defending the drop of the bomb, defend it like only American or allies were saved, but nobody says at the expense of the Japanese.
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GKC
Guest
You are, of course, wrong. The ending of the war saved the lives of all sorts of people in the PTO. As I’ve reminded you before. As I’ve also corrected you when you stated the two bombs killed 100,000: it was more like 200,000, by the end of 1945.rather then sight what i know, explain this
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-Japanese_sentiment
during war they were treated that way, and after the war history books and people defending the drop of the bomb, defend it like only American or allies were saved, but nobody says at the expense of the Japanese.
OTOH, the deaths, monthly, throughout the theater were ranging from 100,000 to 200,000 before the bombs were dropped. Each month the war continued, so did those deaths - Allied, Japanese, Asian native peoples, military, civilian, young, old, POWs. The Japanese military were speaking in terms of a sacrifice of as many as 20,000,000 Japanese, in the Ketsu-go defense of the Home Islands (which was likely a hyperbolic statement, to be sure). I recommend Giancomo’s HELL TO PAY and Gruhl’s IMPERIAL JAPAN’S WORLD WAR II:1931-1945, on the subject of the casualties avoided by ending the war as quickly as possible, and the deaths as it continued. As I’ve recommended before. See also Maddox (ed.) HIROSHIMA IN HISTORY, in general, and chaps 2-5, esp. And Newman’s TRUMAN AND THE HIROSHIMA CULT, passim, chaps 6-8, in particular.
A brief example of the sort of deaths that were avoided by the ending of the war, and would have been avoided, had the Japanese surrendered after the Potsdam Declaration, or after the first atomic bomb: the Soviet Union attacked Japan on the day the 2nd bomb was dropped, and the day before the Supreme Council on the Conduct of the War bowed to the *Showa *Emperor’s decree to accept the Potsdam Proclamation and surrender. The Soviets, in Manchuria, China, Korea, lower Sakhalin and the Kuriles, caused roughly 85,000 Japanese deaths in roughly 2 weeks (they didn’t stop when the Japanese officially surrendered, since they wanted to occupy specific territory). Since the Japanese had heavily colonized Manchukuo, these figures include military and civilian. The Soviet losses were around 12,000. In 2 weeks, roughly 100,000 deaths. Had the war continued, other deaths across the theater would have continued also. In China, in Burma, as the British opened Operation Zipper, early in September, as the Japanese eliminated the 130,000+ POWS, as they were directed to do, as the conventional bombing of the Home Islands continued, with a roughly 60% increase in the total of B-29s available, as the destruction of the transportation systems in the Islands increased the starvation (a death the old and the young fall to especially). And, in the ultimate bloodbath, the invasions of Kyushu and Honshu: Olympic and Coronet. As I’ve told you before, the bombs saved lives throughout the theater. Including Japanese lives.
As to the Wiki site you linked, a quick look at it shows nothing I would argue with. You do note, I hope, that it discusses some of the Japanese atrocities that caused some of those such sentiments. If you want a full discussion of the phenomenon in the war, try Dower’s WAR WITHOUT MERCY:RACE AND POWER IN THE PACIFIC WAR. Covers both sides; that is, the Japanese racism too.
Books on WWII has been one of my major collecting areas for 55+ years. I bought 14 of them yesterday. I start reading Slim’s DEFEAT INTO VICTORY:BATTLING JAPAN IN BURMA AND INDIA, 1942-1945 and THE STILWELL PAPERS next week. The PTO is my primary area of interest, in WWII, and the end of the war there the primary portion of that. My collection of books on that latter subject alone runs to 65+. Go ahead and tell us what you know (I might have a suspicion what that is).
GKC
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louis91766
Guest
I disagree. I think it is in order for the USA to apologise for killing innocent children and other civilians with the atomic bomb. After all, according to the CCC, the dropping of atomic bombs on Japan was immoral and a crime against God: 2314 “Every act of war directed to the indiscriminate destruction of whole cities or vast areas with their inhabitants is a crime against God and man, which merits firm and unequivocal condemnation.”I don’t want to see an apology or even hints of one thereof.
And we also read: “Nuclear weapons cannot be justified and deserve condemnation.” Archbishop Renato Martino
October 19, 1998.
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louis91766
Guest
This is not true as many Germans were held in concentration camps, and in addition, many German women were brutalised, beaten and raped by allied soldiers.The U.S. went to war with Germany and Italy, as well as Japan. All of them were very well treated after the war,…
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Darryl1958
Guest
Maybe saving lives would have figured into Truman’s ultimate decision, but just going on intuition, I have an idea that the majority of Americans and others were just sick and tired of war, and were quite willing to do this just as long as the war was finally put behind them.
There is a limit to just how much of this fascist stupidity that a person is willing to put up with.
“Just frreakin’ die already” is definitely not according to Catholic teaching already, nor should it be, but there comes that point when enough is enough.
There is a limit to just how much of this fascist stupidity that a person is willing to put up with.
“Just frreakin’ die already” is definitely not according to Catholic teaching already, nor should it be, but there comes that point when enough is enough.
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GKC
Guest
You are correct, in essence. That was part of it, too. But being sick and tired also meant the American public was not interested in more deaths than necessary, to end it.Maybe saving lives would have figured into Truman’s ultimate decision, but just going on intuition, I have an idea that the majority of Americans and others were just sick and tired of war, and were quite willing to do this just as long as the war was finally put behind them.
There is a limit to just how much of this fascist stupidity that a person is willing to put up with.
“Just frreakin’ die already” is definitely not according to Catholic teaching already, nor should it be, but there comes that point when enough is enough.
GKC
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Darryl1958
Guest
That is the thing, isn’t it?You are correct, in essence. That was part of it, too. But being sick and tired also meant the American public was not interested in more deaths than necessary, to end it.
GKC
Purely on principle, it makes sense to find moral fault with Trumans decision.
But seldom in real lifr do we ever get to make a choice between good and evil.The choice is more often between varying degrees of evil.
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GKC
Guest
Finding moral fault with Truman’s decision depends on what principle you are operating from.That is the thing, isn’t it?
Purely on principle, it makes sense to find moral fault with Trumans decision.
But seldom in real lifr do we ever get to make a choice between good and evil.The choice is more often between varying degrees of evil.
GKC.
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Darryl1958
Guest
I was referring to previous posts which inferred that such a decision goes against Catholic teaching.Finding moral fault with Truman’s decision depends on what principle you are operating from.
GKC.
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GKC
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I know;usually citing the magisterium, most often the CCC or *GAUDIUM ET SPES. *.I was referring to previous posts which inferred that such a decision goes against Catholic teaching.
GKC
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Wolseley
Guest
Sigh. Those “innocent children and other civilians” were all manufacturing armaments for the Japanese army and navy. I will be happy to provide you with cites upon request.I disagree. I think it is in order for the USA to apologise for killing innocent children and other civilians with the atomic bomb.
Cites?This is not true as many Germans were held in concentration camps, and in addition, many German women were brutalised, beaten and raped by allied soldiers.
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George_Stegmeir
Guest
Your anti-Americanism knows no bounds! As a Polish American, I feel I can say that likewise, your knowledge of history is a disgrace to your Polish heritage. If you cannot add something contextual and non-prejudicial to a discussion it would be best for all that you be quiet and not make a fool out of yourself.en.wikipedia.org/wiki/My_Lai_Massacre
read it then you tell me about japan, America is just as guilty, only difference is they get away with it. but American history and culture says everyone they go to war with isnt human so hey your families are inhuman if someone goes to war with you, you teach the world that you should be treated as subhuman
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George_Stegmeir
Guest
Where did you learn your history? Most legitimate historians agree that only Soviet troops raped German women with impunity during the end days of WWII.This is not true as many Germans were held in concentration camps, and in addition, many German women were brutalised, beaten and raped by allied soldiers.
Your statements are a horrendous insult to the memory of the US, Canadian, Brittish, Free Polish and Free French troops that fought in WWII. All reported cases of rape were severely punished by courts martial by these forces.
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Darryl1958
Guest
Not just a disgrace to his heritage and himself, but to the schools that enabled and propagandize this kind of one-sided uncritical thinking in the first place.Your anti-Americanism knows no bounds! As a Polish American, I feel I can say that likewise, your knowledge of history is a disgrace to your Polish heritage. If you cannot add something contextual and non-prejudicial to a discussion it would be best for all that you be quiet and not make a fool out of yourself.
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GKC
Guest
Remember that I deal in what history teaches. You can dig up allegations, and credible ones, against Americans on rape charges. The first example that comes to mind is in Feiffer’s TENNOZAN:THE BATTLE FOR OKINAWA AND THE ATOMIC BOMB, the best single book on Okinawa that I know of. See pp. 497-498 esp. Indeed, chap. 25 (a short chapter) is titled “American Atrocities”. They were not often reported.Where did you learn your history? Most legitimate historians agree that only Soviet troops raped German women with impunity during the end days of WWII.
Your statements are a horrendous insult to the memory of the US, Canadian, Brittish, Free Polish and Free French troops that fought in WWII. All reported cases of rape were severely punished by courts martial by these forces.
People are people. Some more so than others.
GKC
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