Jehovah's witnesses still dont have an accurate translation?

  • Thread starter Thread starter Hellisreal
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
**The Bible’s Viewpoint

Should You Pray to the Virgin Mary?**

MARY is a familiar figure to most people who know anything about Christianity. The Scriptures relate that Almighty God particularly blessed this young woman by choosing her to be the mother of Jesus. Jesus’ birth was unique in that Mary was a virgin when she conceived him. Certain churches of Christendom have long reserved a special veneration for Mary. In 431*C.E., the Council of Ephesus proclaimed her “Mother of God,” and today many people are taught to pray to her.

Sincere worshippers know that they must address their prayers to the right person. What does the Bible teach in this regard? Should Christians pray to the Virgin Mary?****

What About the Rosary?

Many who pray to Mary have been taught that blessings can be gained by the repetition of set formulas—prayers such as the Hail Mary, Our Father, and others. For Catholics, “the most widespread form of Marian devotion [that is, devotion to Mary] is without doubt the rosary,” says the book Symbols of Catholicism. The rosary is a religious exercise in honor of the Virgin Mary. The term also refers to the string of beads used to count prayers. “Five sets of ten beads, separated by an individual bead,” explains the same book, “are an invitation to fifty recitations of ‘Hail Mary’, five of ‘Our Father’, and five of ‘Glory be to the Father.’” Does God listen with favor to the devout recitation of the rosary?

Again, the instructions that Jesus gave to his disciples provide us with an authoritative answer. “When praying, do not say the same things over and over again, just as the people of the nations do,” he said, “for they imagine they will get a hearing for their use of many words.” (Matthew 6:7) So Jesus specifically told his followers to avoid repeating set formulas in their prayers.

‘But didn’t Jesus teach his disciples to repeat the Our Father, which is part of the rosary?’ someone may ask. It is to be acknowledged that Jesus provided a model prayer, which has come to be known as the Our Father, or the Lord’s Prayer. We should note, however, that he did so immediately after giving the above warning against saying “the same things over and over again.” That Jesus did not intend for the model prayer to be repeated by rote is also evident from differences in his expressions in the two recorded instances in which he taught his disciples to pray. (Matthew 6:9-15; Luke 11:2-4) The ideas Jesus expressed on those occasions were similar, but his words were not the same. This leads us to the conclusion that Jesus was simply providing models or examples of how his followers can pray and of what they can appropriately pray for. Most important, his words indicated who should be the recipient of prayer.

Respect for Mary

The fact that the Scriptures do not teach Christians to pray to Mary in no way implies a lack of respect for the role she played in the outworking of God’s purposes. The blessings that come through her Son will be to the eternal benefit of all obedient mankind. “All generations will pronounce me happy,” Mary herself stated. And her cousin Elizabeth said that Mary was “blessed ... among women.” Indeed, she was. It was a wonderful privilege for Mary to be chosen to bear the Messiah.—Luke 1:42, 48,*49.

However, Mary is not the only woman whom the Scriptures call blessed. Because of the actions that Jael took for the benefit of the ancient nation of Israel, she too was said to have been “most blessed among women.” (Judges 5:24) Faithful Jael, Mary, and many other godly women mentioned in the Bible are certainly worthy of our imitation—but not of our veneration.

Mary was a faithful follower of Jesus. She was present on various occasions during his earthly ministry and also at his death. After Jesus’ resurrection she was “persisting in prayer” with Jesus’ brothers. This gives us reason to believe that along with them she too was anointed with holy spirit at Pentecost33C.E. and thus shared the hope of being part of the bride class that will reign in heaven with Christ.—Matthew 19:28; Acts 1:14; 2:1-4; Revelation 21:2,*9.

None of this, though, authorizes us to pray to Mary. Heartfelt prayer is an essential part of worship, and Christians are encouraged to “persevere in prayer.” (Romans 12:12) However, all such worshipful devotion should be directed to Jehovah alone, through Jesus Christ.—Matthew 4:10; 1*Timothy 2:5.
oh here we go with attacking the Blessed Mother!!! and praying the Rosary! oh joy!:rolleyes: we do NOT worship Mary!:mad: oh and let me ask you steve, why don’t jw’s say the Our Father? hmm huh hmm?oh and for your info steve, the Blessed Mother said, all generations will call me Blessed.
 
Completely off topic. What scriptural evidence can you provide that the vision of a supernatural star was produce by YHWH and not Satan?

Do you admit there is no evidence it came from YHWH?
gee isn’t it a little trite seeing Satan in everything you don’t like- or disagrees with your point of view? It makes it so convenient to dismiss anything anybody says or does that doesn’t line up with the Watchtower organization- How intellectually vapid!😦
 
Did everyone here miss the fact that Bible Steve told us he would “be more careful” about dialoging with Taditional Cath?

Yet, after making this announcement he did JUST THAT.

TC,

What’s your take on how he can say one thing, and do another?

And, had I not mentioned I knew he did engage you, …?
 
The “standard” explanation is that the event came from YHWH. I’m simply pointing out that is a complete assumption without any scriptural support.

The results of the entire event were evil, filled with attempted murder and murder.

There is no reason to assume the event was from YHWH and to insult those who question the lack of scriptural support for the unfounded assumption.
Your reply is intellectually vapid-silly and without basis in the scripture you have stated- Your logic is circuitous to say the least.🤷
 
Did everyone here miss the fact that Bible Steve told us he would “be more careful” about dialoging with Taditional Cath?

Yet, after making this announcement he did JUST THAT.

TC,

What’s your take on how he can say one thing, and do another?

And, had I not mentioned I knew he did engage you, …?
hand him credit for talking to me. he didn’t have to.
 
I am losing patience with your obtuseness, but I will say that I require no scriptural justification or explanation for the miracle of the star, the Watchtower organization has gone to the extent of re-writing and modifying scripture in order to force it to conforn to your pagan beliefs. Therefore your cries for scriptural validation fall on deaf ears. You have so disrespected scripture by your clumsy mutilations that you can no longer claim scripture as your validation. No one else uses your bastardized version as reference. You stand alone in your reliance on the NWT, cobbled together by amateurs and duffers, disregarded by the rest of the legitimate world.
Hosemonkey, I sincerely admire your elegant ability to use clever words and phrases to express yourself I truly do… you are an excellent writer.

However, you have been caught on a belief that is completely unsupported with Scripture. Please use any translation you’ld like to prove your point the miracle star was caused by YHWH and not Satan.

There is no scripture anywhere you can point to. It is complete unexplained.

Thus, a reasoning Bible Student needs to look at the ramifications and make a subjective decision on who was responsible.

Instead of you saying, “good point”, or “interesting point” I hadn’t noted before, you ignore and deny the point.

Why do you hold on to something unsupported by scripture so vehemently?
 
BibleSteve,
Please do no attempt to derail the thread by putting up a bunch of red herrings about Our Blessed Mother. I realize that you are doing poorly on the star topic(and many others) but try to stay on topic, or go back to the org and see if you can scrape up some better arguments. The ones that you are using are pathetic.
 
BibleSteve,
Please do no attempt to derail the thread by putting up a bunch of red herrings about Our Blessed Mother. I realize that you are doing poorly on the star topic(and many others) but try to stay on topic, or go back to the org and see if you can scrape up some better arguments. The ones that you are using are pathetic.
I am not derailing anything. I am simply answer each and every question that is being posed to me.
 
Hosemonkey, I sincerely admire your elegant ability to use clever words and phrases to express yourself I truly do… you are an excellent writer.

However, you have been caught on a belief that is completely unsupported with Scripture. Please use any translation you’ld like to prove your point the miracle star was caused by YHWH and not Satan.

There is no scripture anywhere you can point to. It is complete unexplained.

Thus, a reasoning Bible Student needs to look at the ramifications and make a subjective decision on who was responsible.

Instead of you saying, “good point”, or “interesting point” I hadn’t noted before, you ignore and deny the point.

Why do you hold on to something unsupported by scripture so vehemently?
What your doing is not exegesis like any “good” bible student would do. i:blush:
 
Why do you hold on to something unsupported by scripture so vehemently?
maybe because Catholics do not believe in Sola Scriptura? We believe God’s Word is not just the 66 books in the Protestant version of the Bible that the NWT is based on, but also Tradition and the the Church (as the body of Christ since He IS the Word…)
 
that is why there is a thing known as confession:D
For us, yes.

But, I do believe one can ask forgiveness of God. But, if you ask that, and have no firm purpose of commitment …

and within less than 24 hours commit the same thing…?

I am ASSUMING he asked forgiveness the FIRST time…

One can only imagine the sins mounting up 😦
 
**The Bible’s Viewpoint

Should You Pray to the Virgin Mary?**

MARY is a familiar figure to most people who know anything about Christianity. The Scriptures relate that Almighty God particularly blessed this young woman by choosing her to be the mother of Jesus. Jesus’ birth was unique in that Mary was a virgin when she conceived him. Certain churches of Christendom have long reserved a special veneration for Mary. In 431*C.E., the Council of Ephesus proclaimed her “Mother of God,” and today many people are taught to pray to her.

Sincere worshippers know that they must address their prayers to the right person. What does the Bible teach in this regard? Should Christians pray to the Virgin Mary?****

What About the Rosary?

Many who pray to Mary have been taught that blessings can be gained by the repetition of set formulas—prayers such as the Hail Mary, Our Father, and others. For Catholics, “the most widespread form of Marian devotion [that is, devotion to Mary] is without doubt the rosary,” says the book Symbols of Catholicism. The rosary is a religious exercise in honor of the Virgin Mary. The term also refers to the string of beads used to count prayers. “Five sets of ten beads, separated by an individual bead,” explains the same book, “are an invitation to fifty recitations of ‘Hail Mary’, five of ‘Our Father’, and five of ‘Glory be to the Father.’” Does God listen with favor to the devout recitation of the rosary?

Again, the instructions that Jesus gave to his disciples provide us with an authoritative answer. “When praying, do not say the same things over and over again, just as the people of the nations do,” he said, “for they imagine they will get a hearing for their use of many words.” (Matthew 6:7) So Jesus specifically told his followers to avoid repeating set formulas in their prayers.

‘But didn’t Jesus teach his disciples to repeat the Our Father, which is part of the rosary?’ someone may ask. It is to be acknowledged that Jesus provided a model prayer, which has come to be known as the Our Father, or the Lord’s Prayer. We should note, however, that he did so immediately after giving the above warning against saying “the same things over and over again.” That Jesus did not intend for the model prayer to be repeated by rote is also evident from differences in his expressions in the two recorded instances in which he taught his disciples to pray. (Matthew 6:9-15; Luke 11:2-4) The ideas Jesus expressed on those occasions were similar, but his words were not the same. This leads us to the conclusion that Jesus was simply providing models or examples of how his followers can pray and of what they can appropriately pray for. Most important, his words indicated who should be the recipient of prayer.

Respect for Mary

The fact that the Scriptures do not teach Christians to pray to Mary in no way implies a lack of respect for the role she played in the outworking of God’s purposes. The blessings that come through her Son will be to the eternal benefit of all obedient mankind. “All generations will pronounce me happy,” Mary herself stated. And her cousin Elizabeth said that Mary was “blessed ... among women.” Indeed, she was. It was a wonderful privilege for Mary to be chosen to bear the Messiah.—Luke 1:42, 48,*49.

However, Mary is not the only woman whom the Scriptures call blessed. Because of the actions that Jael took for the benefit of the ancient nation of Israel, she too was said to have been “most blessed among women.” (Judges 5:24) Faithful Jael, Mary, and many other godly women mentioned in the Bible are certainly worthy of our imitation—but not of our veneration.

Mary was a faithful follower of Jesus. She was present on various occasions during his earthly ministry and also at his death. After Jesus’ resurrection she was “persisting in prayer” with Jesus’ brothers. This gives us reason to believe that along with them she too was anointed with holy spirit at Pentecost33C.E. and thus shared the hope of being part of the bride class that will reign in heaven with Christ.—Matthew 19:28; Acts 1:14; 2:1-4; Revelation 21:2,*9.

None of this, though, authorizes us to pray to Mary. Heartfelt prayer is an essential part of worship, and Christians are encouraged to “persevere in prayer.” (Romans 12:12) However, all such worshipful devotion should be directed to Jehovah alone, through Jesus Christ.—Matthew 4:10; 1*Timothy 2:5.
I love how “Watchtower” has all these handy dandy pamphlets for every situation- That way you don’t even have to think:D
 
Hosemonkey, I sincerely admire your elegant ability to use clever words and phrases to express yourself I truly do… you are an excellent writer.

Thank you for your humble homage, but that does not change the fact that your argument has no merit. Full stop.

However, you have been caught on a belief that is completely unsupported with Scripture. Please use any translation you’ld like to prove your point the miracle star was caused by YHWH and not Satan.

Please read again the first line of my post, the one that starts out ’ “I REQUIRE NO SCRIPTURAL VALIDATION FOR THE MIRACLE OF THE STAR.”
There is no scripture anywhere you can point to. It is complete unexplained.

Many things in scripture are unexplained. Why in the world would you ascribe satanic intervention in the miracle of Christ’s birth?

Thus, a reasoning Bible Student needs to look at the ramifications and make a subjective decision on who was responsible.

Jehovah’s Witnesses are NOT "reasoning bible students. If they were, they would not subscribe to a bootleg version of the Holy Scriptures.

Instead of you saying, “good point”, or “interesting point” I hadn’t noted before, you ignore and deny the point.

Your points are neither “good” nor “interesting” other than being bizarre. No compliments are warranted.

Why do you hold on to something unsupported by scripture so vehemently?

Because sloppy and fallacious reasoning makes me tired.
 
Our Lady is not up for discetion here Bible Steve, unless you can tell us all how she suffered seeing her son being crucifyed.

I am really annoyed by your deception and attack on Our Lady.

But, Lets be clear-

You start a thread in apologetics or I will on that topic.

You call it.

But right now, Mary is not on topic here.

I brought her up, to say that she does understand the loss of a child.

You will not on any thread I start, or any thread I post on ever disparage
Our Lady.

Good day sir.
 
Did everyone here miss the fact that Bible Steve told us he would “be more careful” about dialoging with Taditional Cath?

Yet, after making this announcement he did JUST THAT.

TC,

What’s your take on how he can say one thing, and do another?

And, had I not mentioned I knew he did engage you, …?
Congratulations Hellisreal,

In the course of multiple conversations, I saw saw a point that was complete off topic and unsubstantiated by scripture and I pointed that out in post #190. I didn’t look carefully who was speaking to me.

Thank you for focusssing on that point in lieu of any other content that was being discussed.

You have found the plank in my eye…

Excellent, way to go!
 
Our Lady is not up for discetion here Bible Steve, unless you can tell us all how she suffered seeing her son being crucifyed.

I am really annoyed by your deception and attack on Our Lady.

But, Lets be clear-

You start a thread in apologetics or I will on that topic.

You call it.

But right now, Mary is not on topic here.

I brought her up, to say that she does understand the loss of a child.

You will not on any thread I start, or any thread I post on ever disparage
Our Lady.

Good day sir.
Someone else brought up the topic of the rosary… I simple responded to that comment.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top