Jesus Christ - Bible Study

[benedictus2]

May God be glorified in you life.

Wow! That is exactly how I close my correspondence. Except that I usually say " our lives:"

 

[benedictus2]

39 You search the Scriptures because you think that in them you have eternal life; and it is they that bear witness about me, 40 yet you refuse to come to me that you may have life.

I realize Christ was talking to the jews at the time, who were searching the scriptures for the coming of the messiah, and didn’t know or realize that He was already PRESENT among them, because they were too busy studying, to realize this.

Applied to our lives today, it sounds to me, as if a strong paralelle to the eucharist! Why do we spend our days pouring for answers in the scriptures ALONE, when Christ is PRESENT among us, calling us to Him in the mass!

Great Reply!

 

[benedictus2]

The Healing at the Pool on the Sabbath
5:1 After this there was a feast of the Jews, and Jesus went up to Jerusalem.

2 Now there is in Jerusalem by the Sheep Gate a pool, in Aramaic [15] called Bethesda, [16] which has five roofed colonnades. 3 In these lay a multitude of invalids—blind, lame, and paralyzed. [17] 5 One man was there who had been an invalid for thirty-eight years. 6 When Jesus saw him lying there and knew that he had already been there a long time, he said to him, “Do you want to be healed?” 7 The sick man answered him, “Sir, I have no one to put me into the pool when the water is stirred up, and while I am going another steps down before me.” 8 Jesus said to him, “Get up, take up your bed, and walk.” 9 And at once the man was healed, and he took up his bed and walked.

Now that day was the Sabbath. 10 So the Jews said to the man who had been healed, “It is the Sabbath, and it is not lawful for you to take up your bed.” 11 But he answered them, “The man who healed me, that man said to me, ‘Take up your bed, and walk.’” 12 They asked him, “Who is the man who said to you, ‘Take up your bed and walk’?” 13 Now the man who had been healed did not know who it was, for Jesus had withdrawn, as there was a crowd in the place. 14 Afterward Jesus found him in the temple and said to him, “See, you are well! Sin no more, that nothing worse may happen to you.” 15 The man went away and told the Jews that it was Jesus who had healed him. 16 And this was why the Jews were persecuting Jesus, because he was doing these things on the Sabbath. 17 But Jesus answered them, “My Father is working until now, and I am working.”

Jesus Is Equal with God
18 This was why the Jews were seeking all the more to kill him, because not only was he breaking the Sabbath, but he was even calling God his own Father, making himself equal with God.

The Authority of the Son
19 So Jesus said to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, the Son can do nothing of his own accord, but only what he sees the Father doing. For whatever the Father [18] does, that the Son does likewise. 20 For the Father loves the Son and shows him all that he himself is doing. And greater works than these will he show him, so that you may marvel. 21 For as the Father raises the dead and gives them life, so also the Son gives life to whom he will. 22 The Father judges no one, but has given all judgment to the Son, 23 that all may honor the Son, just as they honor the Father. Whoever does not honor the Son does not honor the Father who sent him. 24 Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life. He does not come into judgment, but has passed from death to life.

25 “Truly, truly, I say to you, an hour is coming, and is now here, when the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God, and those who hear will live. 26 For as the Father has life in himself, so he has granted the Son also to have life in himself. 27 And he has given him authority to execute judgment, because he is the Son of Man. 28 Do not marvel at this, for an hour is coming when all who are in the tombs will hear his voice 29 and come out, those who have done good to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil to the resurrection of judgment.

Witnesses to Jesus
30 “I can do nothing on my own. As I hear, I judge, and my judgment is just, because I seek not my own will but the will of him who sent me. 31 If I alone bear witness about myself, my testimony is not deemed true. 32 There is another who bears witness about me, and I know that the testimony that he bears about me is true. 33 You sent to John, and he has borne witness to the truth. 34 Not that the testimony that I receive is from man, but I say these things so that you may be saved. 35 He was a burning and shining lamp, and you were willing to rejoice for a while in his light. 36 But the testimony that I have is greater than that of John. For the works that the Father has given me to accomplish, the very works that I am doing, bear witness about me that the Father has sent me. 37 And the Father who sent me has himself borne witness about me. His voice you have never heard, his form you have never seen, 38 and you do not have his word abiding in you, for you do not believe the one whom he has sent. 39 You search the Scriptures because you think that in them you have eternal life; and it is they that bear witness about me, 40 yet you refuse to come to me that you may have life. 41 I do not receive glory from people. 42 But I know that you do not have the love of God within you. 43 I have come in my Father’s name, and you do not receive me. If another comes in his own name, you will receive him. 44 How can you believe, when you receive glory from one another and do not seek the glory that comes from the only God? 45 Do not think that I will accuse you to the Father. There is one who accuses you: Moses, on whom you have set your hope. 46 For if you believed Moses, you would believe me; for he wrote of me. 47 But if you do not believe his writings, how will you believe my words?”

Reformed, may I ask what is the point of this post?

What do you hope to gain by this?

Are you saying that we Catholics are ignorant of Scripture so need to be taught?

Or are you just out to pummel us with your Sola Scriptura and Sola Fide point of view again?

 

[benedictus2]

Account Suspended

Welcome dear sister in the Lord to our crazy discussion. Please…please stick around.

Do not marvel that I said to you, ‘You must be born again.’ The wind blows where it wishes, and you hear its sound, but you do not know where it comes from or where it goes. So it is with everyone who is born of the Spirit.” - John 3

Is the monkey meant to stand for you? With fingers stuck in his ears so he won’t hear the other’s point of view?

 

[Ronald_E]

Is the monkey meant to stand for you? With fingers stuck in his ears so he won’t hear the other’s point of view?

Wow Ben2. I never caught that insight you just presented. Freud said not to underestimate the power of the unconscious mind. I guess we can have Freudian slips even when we type slow.
I hope your vacation was relaxing and rejuvenating.

 

[guanophore]

Reformed, may I ask what is the point of this post?

What do you hope to gain by this?

Are you saying that we Catholics are ignorant of Scripture so need to be taught?

Or are you just out to pummel us with your Sola Scriptura and Sola Fide point of view again?

Yes, he has said several times that he believes Catholics are not only ignorant of scripture, but afraid to read it.

If you guys don’t join us in reading the Bible together, I will have to conclude that Roman Catholics are very intimidated in reading the Scriptures. Are you afraid that if you read the Bible on your own, you will transform into a Protestant?

Here he expresses his attitude in “humor”.

He believes that, if we look at scripture with him, we will be illuminated by the light of the Spirit, and come to the knowledge of the truth.

I know these are tough issues. The strenght of Calvinism has always been the Scriptures. I think the idea of going through the Scriptures is to transform our minds according to the revealed will of God through biblical revelation by illumination of the Spirit of God.

The gospel of God’s grace revealed in the Scripture alone is a different gospel than what is official taught by Catholic authority. This is the reason for the Protestant Reformation. We have two mutually exclusive gospels. We both cannot be right. The place to find the biblical gospel and the biblical Jesus is through prayer and diligently studying the Scriptures for yourself. I don’t think you will find the truth by spending time on Protestant or Catholic forum sites. It is only by the Holy Spirit through the Scriptures you will be able to know the truth…

 

[Pax]

Reformed,

Have you been able to reflect on my posts #337 through #340 and thus answer my inquiry concerning the regenerative nature of baptism as well as infant baptism?

I believe that these scriptures along with those presented by others overwhelmingly demonstrate that baptism is regenerative and that infant baptism is appropriate and in line with scripture. I have never found any scripture that denies either of these.

Do you believe that there is any scripture that actually deny these two positions? If so what are the passages and please explain in precise and concrete terms why they would contradict and refute the scriptural evidence we presented.

Thanks in advance.

 

[Reformed]

Reformed,

Have you been able to reflect on my posts #337 through #340 and thus answer my inquiry concerning the regenerative nature of baptism as well as infant baptism?

I believe that these scriptures along with those presented by others overwhelmingly demonstrate that baptism is regenerative and that infant baptism is appropriate and in line with scripture. I have never found any scripture that denies either of these.

Do you believe that there is any scripture that actually deny these two positions? If so what are the passages and please explain in precise and concrete terms why they would contradict and refute the scriptural evidence we presented.

Thanks in advance.

The book of Romans and Galatians is the gospel of God’s grace which refutes the doctrine of baptismal regeneration.

1 Corinthians 1:17

For Christ did not send me to baptize but to preach the gospel, and not with words of eloquent wisdom, lest the cross of Christ be emptied of its power.

Romans 1:16-17

For I am not ashamed of the gospel, for it is the power of God for salvation to everyone who believes, to the Jew first and also to the Greek. For in it the righteousness of God is revealed from faith for faith, as it is written, “The righteous shall live by faith.”

Acts 20:24

But I do not account my life of any value nor as precious to myself, if only I may finish my course and the ministry that I received from the Lord Jesus, to testify to the gospel of the grace of God.

 

[Pax]

The book of Romans and Galatians is the gospel of God’s grace which refutes the doctrine of baptismal regeneration.

1 Corinthians 1:17

For Christ did not send me to baptize but to preach the gospel, and not with words of eloquent wisdom, lest the cross of Christ be emptied of its power.

Romans 1:16-17

For I am not ashamed of the gospel, for it is the power of God for salvation to everyone who believes, to the Jew first and also to the Greek. For in it the righteousness of God is revealed from faith for faith, as it is written, “The righteous shall live by faith.”

Acts 20:24

But I do not account my life of any value nor as precious to myself, if only I may finish my course and the ministry that I received from the Lord Jesus, to testify to the gospel of the grace of God.

This is your evidence for refuting all of the scriptures given to you that identify baptismal regeneration?

I already refuted your reference to 1 Cor 1:17 but I will give it to you again.

There is absolutely nothing in this verse that negates the necessity and efficacy of baptism. Anyone that is a Christian can perform a baptism and Paul certainly did so. In the context of the passage Paul is correcting the Corinthians that were having arguments and dissensions. In their arguments these Corinthians apparently argued the superiority of their positions by pointing to the person who baptized and discipled them.

Paul even mentions the elders by name to whom these Corinthians made their appeal by way of association as Christians. Paul’s response is that it didn’t matter who baptized them…they all belonged to Christ and Christ is not divided. He uses himself as an example of a respected authority figure that did not baptize many among the Corinthians. Because of their divisions he is glad that he could point that out for all of them are in Christ whether it was he or someone else that baptized them.

This passage actually makes the point that baptism is universally effective regardless of who the minister of baptism might be. It has nothing to do with showing that baptism is just an ordinance or a symbol.

Now please show me in your quote from Romans 1:16-17 where it says anything about baptism not being regenerative. Please be advised that baptism is part of the gospel and that baptism is one of the reasons that the gospel is the power of God for salvation.

I would also like you to show me in Acts 20:24 where it says that baptism is not regenerative. Failing that, please show me how it negates baptismal regeneration which is part of the gospel of grace described in the passage.

 

[Reformed]

This is your evidence for refuting all of the scriptures given to you that identify baptismal regeneration?

I already refuted your reference to 1 Cor 1:17 but I will give it to you again.

There is absolutely nothing in this verse that negates the necessity and efficacy of baptism. Anyone that is a Christian can perform a baptism and Paul certainly did so. In the context of the passage Paul is correcting the Corinthians that were having arguments and dissensions. In their arguments these Corinthians apparently argued the superiority of their positions by pointing to the person who baptized and discipled them.

Paul even mentions the elders by name to whom these Corinthians made their appeal by way of association as Christians. Paul’s response is that it didn’t matter who baptized them…they all belonged to Christ and Christ is not divided. He uses himself as an example of a respected authority figure that did not baptize many among the Corinthians. Because of their divisions he is glad that he could point that out for all of them are in Christ whether it was he or someone else that baptized them.

This passage actually makes the point that baptism is universally effective regardless of who the minister of baptism might be. It has nothing to do with showing that baptism is just an ordinance or a symbol.

Now please show me in your quote from Romans 1:16-17 where it says anything about baptism not being regenerative. Please be advised that baptism is part of the gospel and that baptism is one of the reasons that the gospel is the power of God for salvation.

I would also like you to show me in Acts 20:24 where it says that baptism is not regenerative. Failing that, please show me how it negates baptismal regeneration which is part of the gospel of grace described in the passage.

Please try to read my post again. I said the entire book of Romans and the entire book of Galatians refutes the doctrine of baptismal regeneration. In addition to the books of Romans and Galatians, the entire Bible as a whole refutes baptismal regeneraiton.

 

[AshleyBelle]

Please try to read my post again. I said the entire book of Romans and the entire book of Galatians refutes the doctrine of baptismal regeneration. In addition to the books of Romans and Galatians, the entire Bible as a whole refutes baptismal regeneraiton.

The book of Romans, the book of Galations, the entire Bible as a whole, may refute or prove any point you’d like to direct it towards, when you fail to illuminate them in the light of sacred tradition and magisterium.

You are very right to say that by reading Romans you’ve decided baptismal regeneration is a false doctrine. Now, what do you say to the 26,000 + other protestant denominations who have read the same scriptures and come to their own personal decisions as well?

The sacred scriptures are a gift of God! But He doesn’t want us to read them in the dark!

 

[Pax]

Please try to read my post again. I said the entire book of Romans and the entire book of Galatians refutes the doctrine of baptismal regeneration. In addition to the books of Romans and Galatians, the entire Bible as a whole refutes baptismal regeneraiton.

I am very familiar with both Romans and Galatians and neither book in any way shape or form refutes baptismal regeneration.

You can claim that they do, but that is merely a claim. Proof is essential.

 

[Reformed]

The book of Romans, the book of Galations, the entire Bible as a whole, may refute or prove any point you’d like to direct it towards, when you fail to illuminate them in the light of sacred tradition and magisterium.

You are very right to say that by reading Romans you’ve decided baptismal regeneration is a false doctrine. Now, what do you say to the 26,000 + other protestant denominations who have read the same scriptures and come to their own personal decisions as well?

The sacred scriptures are a gift of God! But He doesn’t want us to read them in the dark!

A Bible Study is growing in Christ through the illuminating work of God the Holy Spirit through God’s Holy Word. We all know in part; therefore we should try to understand the Holy Scripture through the Spirit of God. I’m not sure you have a real desire to humbly study the Scriptures together.

I thought you no longer wanted to participate in our Bible Studies? There is so much wasted time on these non doctrinal postings. They just stir up dissension without a real desire to grow in the grace and knowledge of the Lord Jesus Christ. . They are just emotional responses without any meaning. Did you have a chance to study the doctrinal issues about the Protestant Reformation and the Council of Trent?

Please,let me ask you an honest question. How much of the Holy Scriptures have you personally studied? How many times have you read the book of Romans or the book of Galatians? How many times have you read through the entire Scriptures?

 

[Reformed]

I am very familiar with both Romans and Galatians and neither book in any way shape or form refutes baptismal regeneration.

You can claim that they do, but that is merely a claim. Proof is essential.

We have a Bible Study on the gospel of John and 1 Corinthians. Do you want to start a Bible Study on the book of Romans or the book of Galatians? These are the essential books driving the Protestant Reformation. In addition, there is another sola besides the 5 solas called toda sola or “all of scripture”. The Protestant Reformation and grounded in all of scripture. Please start a Bible Study on either the book of Galatians or the book of Romans and I will find time to participate.

 

[Pax]

Reformed,

John 3 talks about baptismal regeneration as essential. You questioned that. I and others have supplied tons of scripture to demonstrate the regenerative nature of baptism. You should simply have agreed with the scriptural testimony, but you have not. When questioned about why you have not agreed with this important issue in our study of John’s gospel, you made a feeble and generalized attempt to do so by throwing up a few quotes and refering to Romans and Galatians as well as the rest of scripture.

Your quotes were refuted and you are now left with generalized comments on Romans and Galatians and the rest of scripture. None of these support your view.

You cannot escape the obvious truth of baptismal regeneration. Likewise, you cannot simply suggest that I start another bible study on Romans or Galatians. We are studying John’s gospel and baptismal regeneration is an important element within it. Since you have not refuted the multitude of scriptures given to you, and since the scriptures you did quote were shown not to refute baptismal regeneration, it would seem to me that all of the burden is on you to show us something. Failing that, you must at least no longer make claims in contradiction to baptismal regeneration.

It seems to me that a bible study isn’t of much use if you are unwilling to learn something from it when the truth is staring you squarely in the face.

I hope this didn’t sound harsh…I do not mean to be uncharitable. I realize that we all cherish our beliefs.

 

[guanophore]

I’m not sure you have a real desire to humbly study the Scriptures together.

You are right. I have found your participation on CAF to be anything but humble. I have no desire to pretend that it has been, even under the guise of bible study.

There is so much wasted time on these non doctrinal postings.

That is where you are wrong, Reformed. Catholics receive doctrine from the Church, and this provides us with the necessary perspective to read and understand the Scriptures in the mindset they were written. It may seem like a “waste of time” for you, since it is hindering your conversion agenda.

We have a Bible Study on the gospel of John and 1 Corinthians. Do you want to start a Bible Study on the book of Romans or the book of Galatians? These are the essential books driving the Protestant Reformation.

They may be a battleground, but I think there is something else all together driving.

In addition, there is another sola besides the 5 solas called toda sola or “all of scripture”. The Protestant Reformation and grounded in all of scripture. Please start a Bible Study on either the book of Galatians or the book of Romans and I will find time to participate.

Letsee, Galations and Romans are “driving” but all of scripture is the ground? It is interesting that you wanted us to define the gospel while ruling out everything but 13 of Paul’s letters.

 

[Reformed]

Letsee, Galations and Romans are “driving” but all of scripture is the ground? It is interesting that you wanted us to define the gospel while ruling out everything but 13 of Paul’s letters.

We are on the gospel of John Bible study thread. The other Bible Study thread is about the 13 letters of Paul.

 

[cfrancis]

Reformed,
Is there some reason you have blatantly ignored Pax’s posts in #348, 349, and 340?
What he - and every Catholic on this thread who has posted Scripture - has posted reveals that all Scripture reveals the Truth of baptismal regeneration.
If you cannot accept this most ancient Christian teaching, we can only conclude that you do not wish to humbly study Scripture with us; that you do not want to surrender your man-made theology to the Holy Spirit; and that you have no desire to grow and learn as a Christian.
Please, allow me to ask: how often have you prayed for the Holy Spirit to illuminate Scripture as meant by God and not as desired by you?
How many times have you asked for the Holy Spirit to guide your Scripture reading, and not your preconceived ideas?
How many times have you read Scripture as a whole, and not just the verses with which you agree?

 

[guanophore]

We are on the gospel of John Bible study thread. The other Bible Study thread is about the 13 letters of Paul.

Indeed. But to say you want to use all of scripture, then put artifiical roadblocks such as that is disingenuous. You brought forward in this thread the idea that all of scripture should be taken into account, a principle you have not followed.

 

[guanophore]

Reformed,
Is there some reason you have blatantly ignored Pax’s posts in #348, 349, and 340?
What he - and every Catholic on this thread who has posted Scripture - has posted reveals that all Scripture reveals the Truth of baptismal regeneration.
If you cannot accept this most ancient Christian teaching, we can only conclude that you do not wish to humbly study Scripture with us; that you do not want to surrender your man-made theology to the Holy Spirit; and that you have no desire to grow and learn as a Christian.
Please, allow me to ask: how often have you prayed for the Holy Spirit to illuminate Scripture as meant by God and not as desired by you?
How many times have you asked for the Holy Spirit to guide your Scripture reading, and not your preconceived ideas?
How many times have you read Scripture as a whole, and not just the verses with which you agree?

Let’s say, out of charity, that Reformed has sincerely offered all these prayers. Would not his coming here, then, be the answer to all those prayers?