Jesus Christ is our only 'mediator' as stated by St. Paul

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You said right yourself in that once you die then judgement. There is no place for purification. You either die with Christ and go into his presence or without Him and go to Hell. That is so against Gods Word to teach purgatory. Do you realize that since we all sin and have fallen short of the glory of God that we would all have to go through purgatory. It wouldn’t matter how many masses you have attended, the good works you have done throughout your life and confessing your sins to a priest. You still would likely have to go to purgatory before being granted intrance into heaven. Do you know that the word gospel means “Good News”. Does it sound like “Good News” to you that you can attend over a thousand Masses throughout you life and still die not fully purified from sin. Now in contrast Paul writes Eph 2:8-9 “For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves it is the gift of God; not as a result of work, that no one should boast”. Now doesn’t that sound like “Good News”. When Jesus died He said, “It is finished” Jn 19:30 Jesus completed the work of redemption at the cross. No purgatory is needed for those who trust in God. Read these verses and ask yourself what they mean to you. Jn 17:4 “I have brought you glory on earth by COMPLETING the work you gave me to do”. 1 Jn 1:7 says “the blood of Jesus, His Son, purifies us from ALL sin”. Rom 8:1 “Therefore, there is NOW no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus.” You see we are cleansed not by some alleged fire of purgatory but by the blood of Jesus Heb 9:14. Jesus Himself is the propitiation for our sins 1 Jn 2:2. Heb 10:14 " For by one offering He has PERFECTED FOR ALL TIME those who are sanctified. In other word not purging is necessary. As far as the NT being catholic teaching, that has already been debunked. Sadly that is what tradition does for you. It is not even scriptural. Please read the verses slowly. I hope this helps you in your study of God’s Word. I have more on purgatory if you need more help. God Bless
Let me ask you a question. God says that no unclean thing can enter into heaven (nothing with sin). For discussion purposes, let’s say that you die after committing a terrible sin (God forbid) before you can ask God for forgiveness. Would you say that Christ’s one time only sacrifice cleanses you instantaneously at the time of death?
 
Let me ask you a question. God says that no unclean thing can enter into heaven (nothing with sin). For discussion purposes, let’s say that you die after committing a terrible sin (God forbid) before you can ask God for forgiveness. Would you say that Christ’s one time only sacrifice cleanses you instantaneously at the time of death?
Let me ask you a question. Do you love sin or when you stumble, it is a result of lack of faith?

Paul describes the battle that wages in the life of the believer, with the flesh at war with the spirit.

As to your question, I don’t believe God would allow us to be in a situation where we would sin and die without being able to repent of that sin. God will not let us be tempted more then we can handle.
 
As to your question, I don’t believe God would allow us to be in a situation where we would sin and die without being able to repent of that sin. God will not let us be tempted more then we can handle.
Of course God does not let us be tempted beyond our ability to withstand the temptation. The problem is people choose to embrace and submit to the temptation and sin, instead of fleeing from it in order to remain in God’s grace.

1 Corinthians 10:13
No temptation has overtaken you except such as is common to man; but God is faithful, who will not allow you to be tempted beyond what you are able, but with the temptation will also make the way of escape, that you may be able to bear it.

1 Peter 5:8-9
Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil walks about like a roaring lion, seeking whom he may devour. 9 Resist him, steadfast in the faith, knowing that the same sufferings are experienced by your brotherhood in the world.

God comes to end our lives on earth as a “thief in the night” and then we will be judged. Not every person gets to know the time of his death in order to prepare for it ahead of time. (1 Thessalonians 5:1-3) Sinners will be the least prepared of all!

What happens if you do not choose to escape temptations, but instead choose to succumb to the temptations and willfully sin?

Hebrews 10:26-27
For if we sin willfully after we have received the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, 27 but a certain fearful expectation of judgment, and fiery indignation which will devour the adversaries.

We are no longer saved if we sin mortal sins after our redemption. We must confess and repent before we can be reconciled again to God because if we defile our temples/souls with mortal sins, then God will destroy us if He finds our temples still defiled with these sins at our deaths. (1 Corinthians 3:16-18)

Colossians 1:21-23
And you, who once were alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now He has reconciled 22 in the body of His flesh through death, to present you holy, and blameless, and above reproach in His sight— 23 if indeed you continue in the faith, grounded and steadfast, and are not moved away (by sin) from the hope of the gospel which you heard, which was preached to every creature under heaven, of which I, Paul, became a minister.

Many people will try to get into heaven when they die, even after they willfully sinned, but they did not confess and repent before death because they believed in OSAS. They will all be in for an eternally disappointing “fire and brimstone surprise.” (Matthew 7:20-23) :eek:

What must we do to inherit eternal life after we are redeemed by Baptism (1 Corinthians 15:22, 2 Corinthians 5:15)?

2 Timothy 3:13-15
But evil men and impostors will grow worse and worse, deceiving and being deceived. 14 But you must continue in the things which you have learned and been assured of, knowing from whom you have learned them, 15 and that from childhood you have known the Holy Scriptures, which are able to make you wise for salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.

It looks like the Holy Scriptures have not yet made you wise since you are still “untaught” by Christ’s Catholic Church and instead rely on your own “unstable” understanding of Scripture and therefore make errors in the interpretation of Scripture. (2 Peter 3:14-17) OSAS is a false doctrine. Salvation is a process which begins by our being Baptized and is completed by fearing God (worshiping Him and obeying His commandments) and doing works of righteousness until death. (Acts 10:34-35)
 
Matthew 5:22-24
But I say to you that every one who is angry with his brother shall be liable to judgment; whoever insults his brother shall be liable to the council, and whoever says, `You fool!’ shall be liable to the hell of fire.
23 So if you are offering your gift at the altar, and there remember that your brother has something against you, 24 leave your gift there before the altar and go; first be reconciled to your brother, and then come and offer your gift.

Anger shall be liable to judgment. Mild Insults receive a lesser punishment than grave insults and calling someone a fool was a most provoking injury, when uttered with contempt, spite, or malice, and so it reaps a corresponding punishment of hellfire forever, unless this sin is confessed and repented before death. The state of our souls at the instant of death is its state forever, either just or unjust. Venial sins can be atoned for in purgatory in the next age, but not mortal sins. (Matthew 12:32)

Venial sin: He who insults his brother shall be liable to the council.

Mortal sin: He who calls his brother “you fool!” shall be liable to the fires of hell of fire.

Different “degrees” of sin reap different “degrees” of punishment.
 
Bill Pick: It’s not as difficult as you make it out to be:D Small children can be held spellbound, with a piece of string, if the storyteller is able to use his/her imagination:thumbsup:In this case, you have powerful team above to help you explain the crucifixion, and the reurrection:D Would anyone out there allow their 6 year old to watch,“The Passion”, in its’ entirety? Why, or why not?
 
elvisman: I suppose I should feel pretty special, to have delivered the most immature statement that you’ve ever read:D And I didn’t even mention the Truth(Jesus), I merely pointed out that on those occasions where I attended catholic churches, I thought maybe I had some type of disease, besides sin! The love of Christ was not evident in those parishes! I am not, however, condemning all cc parishes, just making an observation! And purgatory is only a catholic doctrine, based on an interpretation of said scripture!👍
 
guanophore: I know that displaying or wearing of a crucifix, is a catholic tradition:) But, just because the apostles taught Christ crucified, to me, at least, is not a good enough reason to compel members to wear or display said crucifix. Is there some kind of penalty for wearing an “empty” cross? If I read my Bible correctly, the apostles also preached the resurrection, as our pastor preaches:thumbsup: To me, the resurrection is much more important, and significant! It symbolizes freedom, redemption, and eternal life in Christ, the Risen King! So then, it comes down once again to a difference of opinion, and choice. To wear a crucifix or an empty cross. I prefer the empty Cross, because two of the Jewish high council took Jesus off of it! Victory!!!👍👍
 
Bill Pick: No matter how you interpret post#618, it makes no sense at all! You cannot draw a parallel between pictures of great grandmothers, and empty crosses or crucifixes! I have a hard time believing, that someone who loves the Lord as much as you do, cannot tell someon about Him without visual aids;)
 
placido: That’s an easy one to answer, about the comparison between the Cross, and the wedding picture:
Fine. Let’s get started.
I would tell my son/daughter, that daddy onlyhad to wear his “wedding suit”, as you call it for one day:thumbsup:
Now, use that same logic and tell your son/daughter that Jesus was on the Cross only for the moment He was crucified. Showing Him on the Cross (crucifix) years after His death, is the same as showing your wedding picture years after the event.
Then tell him, we keep the picture as a reminder of that glorious day!
Then tell him/her, we use the crucifix as a reminder of Him crucified.
It’s kinda sad, actually, that some would need a crucifix to remind them of Christ’s sacrifice:
Using the same logic, it would also be sad that you needed a picture as a reminder of your “glorious” wedding day.
Hebrews tells us that,…“He died once for all!”
And for us to always remember that “He died once for all!" we need that reminder – the crucifix – just like your wedding picture.

placido
 
placido: Check out this comparison: I only had to wear the "wedding suit for one day, and Jesus only had to hang on the Cross for one day:thumbsup: This is clearly a catholic tradition, whether or not the apostles taught that we must wear a crucifix or not! I am well aware that the apostles taught Christ crucified, but they also taught an even more important thing RESURRECTION!!! So, if you wear a crucifix, that’s your choice, or maybe your obligation; I’m not sure! Conversely, I who am able to remember the horror by wearing an empty cross, then that should be my choice, correct! If you had a six year old, would you let him/her, watch “The Passion”, in its’ entirety?
 
guanophore: I know that displaying or wearing of a crucifix, is a catholic tradition:) But, just because the apostles taught Christ crucified, to me, at least, is not a good enough reason to compel members to wear or display said crucifix.
No member is compelled (in the sense of forcing someone) to wear or display a crucifix.
Is there some kind of penalty for wearing an “empty” cross?
No!
If I read my Bible correctly, the apostles also preached the resurrection, as our pastor preaches:thumbsup: To me, the resurrection is much more important, and significant!
Most Protestants talk about “Jesus’ shed blood”, “Jesus’ sacrifice”, “He died once for all”, etc. By doing this they are portraying Jesus’s death before our ears, but they have a problem with Jesus’ death being portrayed before our eyes.
It symbolizes freedom, redemption, and eternal life in Christ, the Risen King! So then, it comes down once again to a difference of opinion, and choice. To wear a crucifix or an empty cross. I prefer the empty Cross, because two of the Jewish high council took Jesus off of it! Victory!!!👍👍
So, you prefer an empty cross BECAUSE “two of the Jewish high council took Jesus off of it”? That is a very strange reasoning.

placido
 
placido: Check out this comparison: I only had to wear the "wedding suit for one day, and Jesus only had to hang on the Cross for one day:thumbsup:
Correct, but you keep a picture of your wedding day to remind you of that glorious moment in your life, yet you don’t see the importance of a cucifix to remind you of Jesus’ shed blood.
This is clearly a catholic tradition, whether or not the apostles taught that we must wear a crucifix or not! I am well aware that the apostles taught Christ crucified, but they also taught an even more important thing RESURRECTION!!! So, if you wear a crucifix, that’s your choice, or maybe your obligation; I’m not sure!
That is not an obligation.
Conversely, I who am able to remember the horror by wearing an empty cross, then that should be my choice, correct!
Correct.
If you had a six year old, would you let him/her, watch “The Passion”, in its’ entirety?
No, I won’t.

placido
 
placido: Since it is not a rule to wear a crucifix, then I guess it is a standoff; you choose to wear one, I don’t(as do many other non-catholics). And catholics peach the blood of Christ, etc., as much as anyone else! And I included the part about Nicodemus, and Joseph of Arimithea, because of its’ irony; two men, whose religious beliefs, were contrary to the Messiah, wound up taking Him OFF the Cross! It really does come down to personal choice, and whether or not one can remember the horror of that day, with or without a body depicting Christ on their cross!👍
 
placido: I don’t really believe that you can use the wedding picture, to contrast or compare the crucifix; it’s apples and oranges! And no, I don’t need to have a crucifix to remind me of the blood and horrible beating! Isaiah says tahtHis face was unrecognizable! Wouldn’t watching “The Passion”, give your kids, a graphic and complete "picture of the crucifixion? Oh wait, it paints a beautiful picture of the resurrection too:thumbsup:
 
davidv: Don’t need to see South American crosses; I live in the U.S.A! And our reminders don’t always have to be gruesome to remind us of tragedy:thumbsup:
 
placido: Since it is not a rule to wear a crucifix, then I guess it is a standoff; you choose to wear one, I don’t(as do many other non-catholics).
I can go further and reveal to you that no Catholic was ever excommunicated or required to go to confession for failing to wear a crucifix. You are welcome to become Catholic and not wear a crucifix.
And catholics peach the blood of Christ, etc., as much as anyone else!
Catholics do not only preach the shed blood of Jesus, they go even further by protraying Him crucified.
And I included the part about Nicodemus, and Joseph of Arimithea, because of its’ irony; two men, whose religious beliefs, were contrary to the Messiah, wound up taking Him OFF the Cross!
I don’t know, but you tell me: were the bodies of crucified people at that time, left to rot on the cross? If not, then that doesn’t matter who took Him off because He was destined to be taken off anyway.
It really does come down to personal choice, and whether or not one can remember the horror of that day, with or without a body depicting Christ on their cross!👍
The same with any historic event like 9/11 for example … do we remember that by showing the same TV images? Of course, we do!

placido
 
placido: I don’t really believe that you can use the wedding picture, to contrast or compare the crucifix; it’s apples and oranges!
Apples and oranges can be compared, depending on the topic. The real reason you no longer want to go along with the crucifix/wedding picture comparison is bacause you have just discovered that it is busy destroying your arguments.
And no, I don’t need to have a crucifix to remind me of the blood and horrible beating! Isaiah says tahtHis face was unrecognizable!
Luckily, you have a Bible and you are literate. Think about people who did not have Bibles and were illiterate … they needed someone to preach to them and, like a good teacher, a good preacher can use visuals to put his point across. That is how the crucifix became what you call “catholic tradition”.
Wouldn’t watching “The Passion”, give your kids, a graphic and complete "picture of the crucifixion? Oh wait, it paints a beautiful picture of the resurrection too:thumbsup:
The irony here is that, the same people who exclude children when it comes to baptism, now want us to give our kids “a graphic and complete picture” of the crucifixion. But we know better than that.

placido
 
Let me ask you a question. God says that no unclean thing can enter into heaven (nothing with sin). For discussion purposes, let’s say that you die after committing a terrible sin (God forbid) before you can ask God for forgiveness. Would you say that Christ’s one time only sacrifice cleanses you instantaneously at the time of death?
Rom 8:1 “There is therefore NOW no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus”. No sin a believer can commit past, present or future can be held against him, since the penalty was paid by Christ and righteousness was imputed to the believer. And no sin will ever reverse this divine legal decision. Now that is Good News. Now that doesn’t mean that we should go out and commit sin. Hope this helps you God Bless
 
I think Paul does say that to be absent from this earth is to be present (for him) with the Lord. However, I think it is a misunderstanding that those in purgatory are not present with the lord. They are at least as present with Him as we can be here, and probably more so, since they are not limited by this body of death.
**Actually, he doesn’t say that. **
I posted 3 different versions an none of them say that "to be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord."
 
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