"Jesus IS God!"?

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Hi look, I think you mean only God could exist in the flesh and not be subject to the possibility of sinning? Everyone else can possibly fall from a sinless state?
** Here the subject is " Jesus is God!". I do not believe that. Nowhere in the bible is such a thing that Jesus is God. If it was, and if it was the best truth then it would have been repeated many times on every page of the bibleNT that “Jesus is God.” But there is no such thing. It is a derived formula only, an activity of the mind of some one who came in the name of Jesus.

It was a big diversion from the original belief of Jews. Jews had no idea of any such major change about God. So such a major change needed a very clear signal. But there is no explicit verse saying that"Jesus is God!" in the bibleNT or the bibleOT. So please drop this bad idea. At least the Muslims and the Jews are not with the christians on this god making subject (business). **
 
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Here the subject is " Jesus is God!". I do not believe that. Nowhere in the bible is such a thing that Jesus is God.
If there were it would have rendered the belief that Jesus is God a joke rather than what it is; a revelation of self that teaches in fullness the God who revealed himself to Moses.
correction…there are many verses that express belief that Jesus is God. That you deny them as such doesn’t mean they aren’t there. They are fairly clear and not easily denied with good reason. And my muslim friend I’m afraid that you haven’t yet done.
 
** Here the subject is " Jesus is God!". I do not believe that. Nowhere in the bible is such a thing that Jesus is God. If it was, and if it was the best truth then it would have been repeated many times on every page of the bibleNT that “Jesus is God.” But there is no such thing. It is a derived formula only, an activity of the mind of some one who came in the name of Jesus.

It was a big diversion from the original belief of Jews. Jews had no idea of any such major change about God. So such a major change needed a very clear signal. But there is no explicit verse saying that"Jesus is God!" in the bibleNT or the bibleOT. So please drop this bad idea. At least the Muslims and the Jews are not with the christians on this god making subject (business). **
Planten

I don’t expect you to see my view because you are not privy to that view yet.

Here’s why; According to the structure of the revelations of the Holy Spirit, only those who are born of that spirit can understand to see what and who Jesus really is.

Now, I don’t mean to mean that I am isolating you from the Holy Spirit, only that that is the way it is structured in the new testament.

The Jews were blinded from seeing Jesus for who He was by the same structure. And they are blind today as they were then.

Why? Because God says He blinded them so that they would reject Jesus as the Son of God and become an instrument in God’s hands to offer Jesus up as a sacrificial lamb for the sins of the world, to include not only the Jews but everyone else as well.

Which includes you as well.

If you remain a Muslim believer till you die physically, you shall see Jesus for who He is in spirit when you get there.

That is a given, given the fact that Jesus paid the price for you and me.

Even if you don’t recognize Jesus as God, and if you continue to love your neighbor as you love yourself, you are complying wit second of two commandments given by Jesus.

But, if you use your religious beliefs to cause hurt, harm to your neighbor, consequences follow you.

The same goes for any Jewish or Christian believer.

Jesus paid the price of eternal death for all of us, giving us the freedom to believe as we want with out that penalty.

My belief in Jesus has been nothing but glorious, and blessings received to my wonderment, for I see my self as unworthy of all His love.

Talking about it is not going to convince anyone, until it is personally experienced.

If in doubt, try this, isolate yourself from the world in a closet with the doors closed, and say to God what it is that is in your heart to know about God’s Son, Jesus, whether it be true r not, request that e give you and answer.

As a matter of fact, demand from Him that He give you and answer, and believe that Allah, the name you understand God to be, will give you an answer.

“Wait upon the Lord, and He wil give you rest”; that is a promise from Him.

Blessings, AJ
 
The Jews to this day are blind to Jesus as are the Muslims.
It is not by choice that you or he Jews were born into your beliefs, but it is a choice for you to determine what you want to believe.

To believe in the good of God/Allah, requires us only to do, live in honor of His commandments, and those two are first to love God/Allah with all your heart, mind and soul, and the second is to love your neighbor as you love your self.

If we all, with respect to our differing beliefs, can live with the second, the first is taken care of by God/Allah.

I see threats to bodily harm from religious people, regardless of who or what they believe, to be a cancer to the body of believers, of God/Allah or Jesus.

We are given a responsibility to subdue the earth and all that is in it, to become good stewards of it and humanity in the act of exercising the love of neighbor.

We are aware of religious zealots on all sides to act in accordance to their desires to gain power, to control by subjecting people to their form of beliefs.

It has been shown in the acts of human history that it happens all the time, even to today, evidenced by the evil that perpetrated in the name of religion.

I am a believer in Jesus as God, and will as my desire to love my neighbor Muslims as I love my self, as all others as well.

More on the subject later if you like.

Blessings, AJ
 
None are born into salvation, it must be reached by earnest searching. We can not blindly accept what is spoon fed to us, not even through Christian religions, it must be received by individual revelation and the holy spirit.

If you don’t look you won’t find it. All should study every religion that is out there, there is NO danger in that, how in the world do you expect to have the truth if you do not test it against a lie?

The greatest affirmation of my faith was when I discovered Islam. It is such a complete opposite darkness, a lack of truth, a loss of the ‘way’ to God, a reversal of enlightenment, a bondage of human evolution that the light of Christ shone brighter and stronger than ever before.

But I had already studied so many religions before this…and they never opposed Christ as this on did claiming false honor of Jesus. There is value in this if you can see it.

Also: Organized religion is not ‘the way’, Jesus is the way. His way is different than what we as humans have done to organize it.
 
Jesus never said He was God, but that He and the Father were one. We both know that He was God in the flesh, but why is the question, and that is what I was attempting to answer for you.

Jesus knew only what the Father revealed to Him, for Jesus was to experience the full dept of being human in order to conquer it.

Ref:Heb 4:15 For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin.

Without Jesus being God, there could be no salvation, for only God could exist in the flesh “yet without sin.”

No other person in the world is without sin.

Blessings, AJ
Ah, I see. :doh2:
I’m afraid I must disagree with you when you say that Jesus never said He was God, however. Perhaps He never said it bluntly, but it was said nonetheless.
I don’t think you could convince me otherwise (and I don’t think I could convince you) so I suppose we’ll just have to agree to disagree. 🙂
 
Ah, I see. :doh2:
I’m afraid I must disagree with you when you say that Jesus never said He was God, however. Perhaps He never said it bluntly, but it was said nonetheless.
I don’t think you could convince me otherwise (and I don’t think I could convince you) so I suppose we’ll just have to agree to disagree. 🙂
You and I know Jesus was God, but for reasons of the flesh, Jesus could not proclaim it, but alluded to it.

Blessings, AJ
 
You and I know Jesus was God, but for reasons of the flesh, Jesus could not proclaim it, but alluded to it.

Blessings, AJ
I don’t think you could convince me otherwise (and I don’t think I could convince you) so I suppose we’ll just have to agree to disagree. 🙂
Need I say more?

Peace,
Nicole 🙂
 
Originally Posted by look3467
Jesus never said He was God, but that He and the Father were one. We both know that He was God in the flesh, but why is the question, and that is what I was attempting to answer for you.
**look3467, please understand that Muslims do not believe that Jesus or Moses or Muhammad or Abraham or Noah or Adam was God. None of them were God. They were just human beings. They were not ghosts or spirits or God.

You may believe what you like. We Muslims sincerely believe that Moses and Jesus and Muhammad and Abraham and Noah and Adam were all human beings and humble servants of God. They were the messengers of God who brought messages care of the holy spirit from God to mankind for a good (pious) living. ( Holy spirit is also a humble servant, messenger, angel, of God). **
 
**look3467, please understand that Muslims do not believe that Jesus or Moses or Muhammad or Abraham or Noah or Adam was God. None of them were God. They were just human beings. They were not ghosts or spirits or God.

You may believe what you like. We Muslims sincerely believe that Moses and Jesus and Muhammad and Abraham and Noah and Adam were all human beings and humble servants of God. They were the messengers of God who brought messages care of the holy spirit from God to mankind for a good (pious) living. ( Holy spirit is also a humble servant, messenger, angel, of God). **
has any humanbeing ever said that they had the power to lay down their life and the same power to take it back up again?No man has the power to take their life back up again only God does,yet here in the gospel written by StJohn10;18 we have the man Jesus saying just that"No one takes it from me, but i lay it down of myself. I have the power to lay it down, and I have the power to take it back up again."
 
has any humanbeing ever said that they had the power to lay down their life and the same power to take it back up again?No man has the power to take their life back up again only God does,yet here in the gospel written by StJohn10;18 we have the man Jesus saying just that"No one takes it from me, but i lay it down of myself. I have the power to lay it down, and I have the power to take it back up again."
**What Jesus said was right. But you misunderstand many things. Sometimes you take the literal meaning too much. For instance, Jesus said , “I and God are one.” That is not literal. If he called himself the son of God,that is not literal. It has other meanings. he also called other people sons of God. See? Are they also the sons of God as is Jesus?? But then you get into trouble. So you have invented other phrases such as the begotten. That is also not to be taken literally as we understand begotten daily. Then youhave the only begotten son. See how many problems and windings in the beliefs??

What Jesus said is right in many ways. WE do not deny it. He was prepared to lay his life for the cause of truth… Nothing wrong with that. he in fact taught all others also that if they wanted to follow him the they should be ready to go up onthe cross too.

We Muslims believe all such things. Perfect teachings of Jesus. **…
 
**What Jesus said was right. But you misunderstand many things. Sometimes you take the literal meaning too much. For instance, Jesus said , “I and God are one.” That is not literal. If he called himself the son of God,that is not literal. It has other meanings. he also called other people sons of God. See? Are they also the sons of God as is Jesus?? But then you get into trouble. So you have invented other phrases such as the begotten. That is also not to be taken literally as we understand begotten daily. Then youhave the only begotten son. See how many problems and windings in the beliefs??

What Jesus said is right in many ways. WE do not deny it. He was prepared to lay his life for the cause of truth… Nothing wrong with that. he in fact taught all others also that if they wanted to follow him the they should be ready to go up onthe cross too.

We Muslims believe all such things. Perfect teachings of Jesus. **…
You didn’t address His words in your post"…,and I have the power to take it back up again"…
 
**What Jesus said is right in many ways. WE do not deny it. ****We Muslims believe all such things. Perfect teachings of Jesus. **…
**4 I have glorified thee on the earth; I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do. 5 And now glorify thou me, O Father, with thyself, with the glory which I had, before the world was, with thee. **

planten, Jesus is the only prophet to ask God to glorify him. The purpose of the creature is to glorify God. Is it the purpose of God to glorify creatures? Has this ever happened before or since?

What does Jesus mean when he teaches about his own glory that pre-existed creation? He is not asking the Father for the Father’s glory but for glory that Jesus had before creation. Can you explain who Jesus is teaching us about when He said these things? How can Jesus claim to have had glory before the world was? Why doesn’t he have it when he said this?
 
**look3467, please understand that Muslims do not believe that Jesus or Moses or Muhammad or Abraham or Noah or Adam was God. None of them were God. They were just human beings. They were not ghosts or spirits or God.

You may believe what you like. We Muslims sincerely believe that Moses and Jesus and Muhammad and Abraham and Noah and Adam were all human beings and humble servants of God. They were the messengers of God who brought messages care of the holy spirit from God to mankind for a good (pious) living. ( Holy spirit is also a humble servant, messenger, angel, of God). **
Planten,

I understand your view completely as you stated it.

Which, under the circumstances of those views, I can not expect you to see it my way.

The good thing about my view that yours doesn’t include, is that my view of Jesus being God not only saved my soul but will save yours also.

Notice the present/past tense “saved” in my view and the future tense “save” for your view?

Your view will not accept me as a Christian believer in Jesus as God for salvation, while my view will declare your soul to be saved when you die and after wards will recognize Jesus for who He really is.

God in His wonderful works allowed for all the differences in the world to be an obstacle towards the birth of good will, one towards another.

That is why we were not all born as Christians, Jews and or Muslims.

If we, in our differences can not find to exercise Godly love, one towards another,then our practicing religious beliefs are useless.

Godly love does not promote wars, but wars we will have because humanity desires rather to live for self, rather than for God.

You had no choice to whom you would be born to, or to what religious beliefs you would inherit, or even given the choice to ven come into this world.

Can’t you see why it is necessary that we all know the difference between good and evil, so that we can choose between the two?

Can’t you see why this world caters to the lusts of the flesh more so that to Godly things?

It is a fight, to live in environment not of our choosing, with the worlds desires knocking at the door of our hearts, to entice us to live for ourselves, to indulge in every conceivable kind of sin there it.

You are made in the image of Allah/God, in that you have been given the privilege of intelligence, with the ability to discern good and evil.

You are ruler of your own life, your little kingdom as like a god, who can choose good or evil at will.

We are flawed vessels for that reason, and in need of God’s/Allah’s saving grace.

Only God/Allah can save us, for no flawed vessel could take our place, unless, God/Allah would come in the flesh, as we are in the flesh, and pay the price for our flawed-ness, redeem us back to life from the dead state.

Once we are redeemed, we are new creatures, as if born again to a newness of life, life that can began here on earth and continued after this life.

That is the hope of the assurances given me, that I may “rest” from all my works of trying to save my soul, and live life more abundantly in this newness of life that was freely given me.

That is one thing you can not say to me, but I can say it to you, for I have assurances by faith in the Son of God being who He said He was, and giving me only what God can give, and that is life.

There is no other way of explaining it, for either you try to see my view or you won’t.

Your hope for the after life lies within your ability to live just and a right life, and then it may still be in question to whether you had done enough.

Where as in my view, I know for sure where life begins, and where itn doesn’t end.

Hope you understand that my view is but an explanation, and am not trying to persude you to change yours, but that in yours, you will find the peace, rest and the life that AQllah wants you to have.

Blessings, AJ
 
has any humanbeing ever said that they had the power to lay down their life and the same power to take it back up again?No man has the power to take their life back up again only God does,yet here in the gospel written by StJohn10;18 we have the man Jesus saying just that"No one takes it from me, but i lay it down of myself. I have the power to lay it down, and I have the power to take it back up again."
You are correct in what you are saying and which is one of many instances in the whole bible where Jesus is the center of all of it, to the glory of God.

But you must understand that God works in many ways but one, and He justified Hagar’s son, by promising her that from her seed, great nations should arise.

Unfortunately, Ismael being the first born, his birthright was stolen by Issac with the direct hand of God, did not prevent God from blessing them, though a different religious belief.
Both Ismael and Issac are brothers, but different beliefs, in demonstration of a picture which depicts the stories of Cain and Abel, Esau and Jacob, and the Jews and Jesus.

In Jesus, is the story repeated, to where Jesus “stole” Israels birthright, and a new generation of peoples created in spirit that are as the in number, as the stars in the whole universe.

God is greater than our ability to understand His love, therefore, unlimited.
We, on the other hand, in our limited understandings, limit God to our own views.

Blessings, AJ
 
You didn’t address His words in your post"…,and I have the power to take it back up again"…
That was a difficult part of jesus speech. I could not readily give some opinion on that. But hopefully, when understaood well, I may comment. Please do not take it as bad. Remember that I will not generally take the words to mean literally as Jesus used to speak in parables most of the time. I would take the spiritual meanings. they are even better than other meanings. Thanks.
 
4 I have glorified thee on the earth; I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do. 5 And now glorify thou me, O Father, with thyself, with the glory which I had, before the world was, with thee.

planten, Jesus is the only prophet to ask God to glorify him. The purpose of the creature is to glorify God. Is it the purpose of God to glorify creatures? Has this ever happened before or since?
Thanks Benadam, for telling me that Jesus is a prophet of God. I found many Catholics telling me that he was not a prophet at all. I am much relieved. I will take up the the glorification matter later with you, Insha Allah.
What does Jesus mean when he teaches about his own glory that pre-existed creation? He is not asking the Father for the Father’s glory but for glory that Jesus had before creation. Can you explain who Jesus is teaching us about when He said these things? How can Jesus claim to have had glory before the world was? Why doesn’t he have it when he said this?
** May be I will have to re-phrase the words of the bible in order to reply to you properly. There is no harm if the prophets had glory pre-existent. There are souls. Jesus had a soul too and he was aided (strengthened) by the holy spirit. Do you believe that? that is written in the Quran.

It is also written in the Quran that Jesus said " God has given me the book and made me a prophet." Al-Quran 19:30. That did not mean he was given a book in written form. It meant that he was given the divine knowledge which could be made out into a book later.

We will discuss thsoe things after your approval.**
 
That was a difficult part of jesus speech. I could not readily give some opinion on that. But hopefully, when understaood well, I may comment. Please do not take it as bad. Remember that I will not generally take the words to mean literally as Jesus used to speak in parables most of the time. I would take the spiritual meanings. they are even better than other meanings. Thanks.
Thanks.
:).not a problem take the time you need.We aren’t going any where,well yet.
 
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