Jesus quoting the Deutero Canonicals

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Old_Scholar said:
The Jewish canon had been considered closed after the last Prophet, Malachi, and most Jews place this date around 200 BC.
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What is the central theme regarding the Jews throughout scripture? What is the source of their continuing punishment as the chosen people? Disobedience. How can reliance on the disobedient for a canon lead to the fulness of truth? Since God’s covenant was based on His Son, doesn’t that call for a re-examination of just what they had done with their canon? Let me guess: No!
 
mark_a said:
Its the entire Catholic Church, not the just Roman Catholic Church, that is infallible in teachings involving faith and morals.

The pope gets his infallibility from the Catholic Church, not vice versa.
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There is no church that is infallible. Many claim to be but none are.

And the pope’s infallibility has been shown to not be true as well. Too many popes have declared something infallible and then other popes reversed their teachings.

No man is infallible. Only the written word of God is infallible and even that has some translation errors in it, but nothing that affects faith or morals is in error.
 
po18guy said:
What is the central theme regarding the Jews throughout scripture? What is the source of their continuing punishment as the chosen people? Disobedience. How can reliance on the disobedient for a canon lead to the fulness of truth? Since God’s covenant was based on His Son, doesn’t that call for a re-examination of just what they had done with their canon? Let me guess: No!
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You are correct…the central theme is disobedience. But God keeps trying and has promised to bring Israel, including the two Jewish tribes, back together and have them rule. That is what He has promised when He returns. He will never forsake Israel.

Of course I am sure you realize that the United States and Great Britain are two of the twelve tribes of Israel.
 
To get back on subject, to date, no one has shown any words of Jesus that quoted the apocrypha. I showed that big long list to be inaccurate. There were no quotes there. Just some of the same words used but always in a different context.

I wish someone who made that claim would list the verse in the Bible and then show the verse from the apocryphal book that he was quoting from…??
 
Death of the soul, as you talk about in the Scriptures you quoted, is referring to eternal separation from God. You are misinterpreting Scripture if you believe that the soul ceases to exist.
Old Scholar:
Apparently you are not familiar with some Protestant denominations.
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The Unitarian-Universalists, the Seventh-Day Adventists, the Jehovah’s Witnesses, the Christadelphians, the Christian Scientists, the Religious Scientists, the New Agers, and the Mormons are not Protestant. They are cults. If your church is one of these, then you are not Protestant.:rolleyes:
 
Tietjen said:
Death of the soul, as you talk about in the Scriptures you quoted, is referring to eternal separation from God. You are misinterpreting Scripture if you believe that the soul ceases to exist.

The Unitarian-Universalists, the Seventh-Day Adventists, the Jehovah’s Witnesses, the Christadelphians, the Christian Scientists, the Religious Scientists, the New Agers, and the Mormons are not Protestant. They are cults. If your church is one of these, then you are not Protestant.:rolleyes:
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Then you are telling me that all those Scriptures I quoted were wrong. Please take them one at a time, in context, and show me where they are wrong…
 
Old_Scholar said:
You are correct…the central theme is disobedience. But God keeps trying and has promised to bring Israel, including the two Jewish tribes, back together and have them rule. That is what He has promised when He returns. He will never forsake Israel.

Of course I am sure you realize that the United States and Great Britain are two of the twelve tribes of Israel.
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Ummm… What?! Where do you get this stuff? Never mind, I don’t think I want to know. I’m outta here… on to more intelligent threads.
 
Tietjen said:
THEY aren’t wrong, YOUR understanding of them is.
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That isn’t likely. The verses are quite plain. You have to take them literal—there is no room for mistranslation. They say the soul will die. You can’t get any clearer than that.

It’s just something you don’t want to believe.
 
Old_Scholar said:
Sorry, but you are in error. My Bible had absolutely nothing at all to do with the Roman Catholic Church. They didn’t write it, they didn’t canonize it and they certainly didn’t approve it.
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Welcome to imagination land! The land where we reject history, the Tradition of the Church Jesus established, and can create any reality want with just a few keystrokes!
 
Of course I am sure you realize that the United States and Great Britain are two of the twelve tribes of Israel.
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Are you Christian Identity? Brittish Israelism.
Deep into cool aid racist theology. :eek:
 
Old_Scholar said:
You are correct…the central theme is disobedience. But God keeps trying and has promised to bring Israel, including the two Jewish tribes, back together and have them rule. That is what He has promised when He returns. He will never forsake Israel.

Of course I am sure you realize that the United States and Great Britain are two of the twelve tribes of Israel.
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You are an interesting, unusual, and cocksure man. Of course, I found numerous churches named Church of God. Which church, where are the headquarters, or who are its leaders? I cannot know what direction you come from until I can nail down the beliefs.

Christ’s peace.
 
inthecloud said:
Are you Christian Identity? Brittish Israelism.
Deep into cool aid racist theology. :eek:
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As you might expect, there are innumerable different churches all claiming the Church of God moniker. If we can nail it down, we’ll know where he’s coming from.
 
TOBIT 4

15 Never do to another what you would hate to have done to you by another.

JESUS (Matthew 7)
  1. Do to others whatever you would have them do to you. This is the law and the prophets.
WISDOM 2

18 For if he be the true son of God, he will defend him, and will deliver him from the hands of his enemies.

MATTHEW 27

43 He trusted in God; let him now deliver him if he will have him; for he said: I am the Son of God.

Ecclesiasticus (aka Sirach)

40:15 The offspring of the ungodly shall not bring forth many branches, and make a noise as unclean roots upon the top of a rock.

Jesus (Mark 4)

5 And other some fell upon stony ground, where it had not much earth; and it shot up immediately, because it had no depth of earth.

16 And these likewise are they that are sown on the stony ground: who when they have heard the word, immediately receive it with joy. 17 And they have no root in themselves, but are only for a time: and then when tribulation and persecution ariseth for the word they are presently scandalized.

🤷
 
Old_Scholar said:
But it had a great deal to do with the Jews in Alexandria who were beginning to become Christians and were following the LXX.

The Jews there were beginning to speak and write in Greek and were not using Hebrew. That is why they were not very familiar with the Hebrew Scriptures. It was requested that the Jews translate the Hebrew Scriptures into Greek and that is why the LXX came about.

The Jews at Palestine did not accept the apocryphal books. They did not like the fact that many Jews were losing their ability to speak and read Hebrew.

That is the biggest reason for the council.

The Jewish canon had been considered closed after the last Prophet, Malachi, and most Jews place this date around 200 BC.
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The biggest reason for the council was the destruction of the temple and the rise in Christianity. The handful of Jewish leaders who met in Javneh were trying to salvage something, anything to try and muddle on in the old ways.

Besides their motives, is there anything to indicate that the “Council” in Javneh was a council in the sense that we use this word today?
 
Some minor points that should be made here are:
  • Though St. Jerome wrote some things about not including the 7 books in the bible, he did include them, and later quoted from them in his writings.
  • Esther, Ecclesiastes and the Song of Solomon are not quoted in the New Testament, but the book of Enoch is quoted.
  • 80% of the Old Testament quotes in the New Testament taken from the Septuagint, with the most notable one being that a “virgin” would concieve. (The Hebrew Old Testament said a “young woman” would concieve.)
  • At least one of the 7 books from the deuterocanonical was found in the dead sea scrolls written in Hebrew.
  • Even if there was a council of Jamnia, which some scholars doubt, the authority had been given the the Christian church by the year 70 AD, and taken away from the Jews, so they would not have had the authority to set a canon at that time.
 
Not that you have to Old Scholar, but I’m just wondering why you did not address post #44.
 
Old_Scholar said:
I will give you the direct quote from the preface of Jerome to the books of the Wisdom of Solomon and the book of Ecclesiasticus. You can read it for yourself on the CCEL website.

As, then, the Church reads Judith, Tobit, and the books of Maccabees, but does not admit them among the canonical Scriptures, so let it read these two volumes for the edification of the people, not to give authority to doctrines of the Church. If any one is better pleased with the edition of the
Seventy, there it is, long since corrected by me. For it is not our aim in producing the new to destroy the old. And yet if our friend reads carefully, he will find that our version is the more intelligible,
for it has not turned sour by being poured three times over into different vessels, but has been drawn straight from the press, and stored in a clean jar, and has thus preserved its own flavour.

Altogether this pertains to several apocryphal books; as named by Jerome here.
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You’ll have to link that cause I searched all over the CCEL site and couldn’t find it…naturally I only looked in the section of Jerome’s writings.

And, speaking of the Wisdom of Solomon…have you ever read the Gospel According to Luke? See this verse…

Ch 11; V 31:
31 The queen of the south shall rise in the judgment with the men of this generation, and shall condemn them: because she came from the ends of the earth to hear the wisdom of Solomon; and behold more than Solomon here.

Just where do you think someone would hear the wisdom of Solomon??? First place I would look is in the Book of The Wisdom Of Solomon.
 
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