Jesus' status in Islam and Judaism

[swariffin]

God ordered the Jews to kill many people. The commands to the Jews and to the Muslims are similar. The commands to Christians are different, and more exalted.

Dear Ed,

If you say God ordered the Jews to kill many people, and yet through Moses He said “Thou shalt not kill.” Through Mohammad God taught to care for the needy, but “Kill… Slay… Subjudge”. It sounds that God is wissy wassy.

If you say God commands to the Christian are more exalted, and indeed God said “Love your enemy, turn the other cheek…” Beside just teaching, the One Who Said that really did what was said as the example. In that case, God is consistent in Christianity.

 

[sambos671]

Nope. His post does not tell me what a messiah is in Islam. It does tell me some things that are vastly different than Christian teaching about Jesus’s second coming.

Islam says he will kill the anti-Christ. We say he kills no one.

Islam says he will marry. We say he is maried to the Church and will never and has never taken a human bride.

Islam says he will die. He has died and risen and will never die again.

Islam talks about him destroying the cross and the pig and all that. We say none of that.

Again, the message is different. The role of Christ is grealy different.

I want to note that i do not hold Islam to be from the devil. I, like the Catholic CHurch, hold that they intend to worriship the same God but have a flawed understanding of Him.

Anything that replaces Jesus in our affection and service is Anti-Christ or another christ. Islam replaces Jesus (who is God) with Allah (traditionally a moon god of the beduine people made into the one God by Mohammad). Jesus’ teaching is far different from Mohammads there is no real comparison. And in the end Christians are saved by grace, enabled to do works and moslems are saved by works judged against the feather of truth. Many differences.

 

[hamba2han]

In the Bible, Jesus (pbuh) said to the Jews: “Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof.” (Matthew 21:43)

What other nation beside the modern Muslims of today bow down to GOD Almighty in the most proper way? What other nation beside the modern Muslims Glorify GOD Almighty in their 5-daily Prayers, and fast the Month of Ramadan for Him?

"And God said, Sarah thy wife shall bear thee a son indeed; and thou shalt call his name Isaac: and I will establish my covenant with him for an everlasting covenant, and with his seed after him. And as for Ishmael, I have heard thee: Behold, I have blessed him, and will make him fruitful, and will multiply him exceedingly; twelve princes shall he beget, and I will make him a great nation." (Genesis 17:19-20)

The Qur’an affirms that the Jews were GOD Almighty’s chosen people: “We did aforetime grant to the Children of Israel the Book the Power of Command, and Prophethood; We gave them, for Sustenance, things good and pure; and We favoured them above the nations.” (Al-Qur’an, 45:16)

But after they utterly failed with GOD Almighty and His Messengers (Not Moses ever liked their actions, nor Jesus (peace be upon them both) ever liked them and their killings of the Prophets):

"O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not!" (Matthew 23:37)

"You have heard these things; look at them all. Will you not admit them? “From now on I will tell you of new things, of hidden things unknown to you. They are created now, and not long ago; you have not heard of them before today. So you cannot say, ‘Yes, I knew of them.’ You have neither heard nor understood; from of old your ear has not been open. Well do I know how treacherous you are; you were called a rebel from birth. For my own name’s sake I delay my wrath; for the sake of my praise I hold it back from you, so as not to cut you off.” (Isaiah 48:6-9)

"So I will disgrace the dignitaries of your temple, and I will consign Jacob to destruction and Israel to scorn." (Isaiah 43:28)

"But now, all you who light fires and provide yourselves with flaming torches, go, walk in the light of your fires and of the torches you have set ablaze. This is what you shall receive from my hand: You will lie down in torment." (Isaiah 50:11)

They became cursed, and GOD Almighty removed His Kingdom from them and gave it to another nation. That nation is non other than the Muslims who came from the “blessed” Ishmael.

 

[Rocky]

I think if you’ll visit that site, which I mentioned, it mentions how “The True Furqan” actually doesn’t meet the challenge.

Then why all the fuss by Muslims?

 

[Angelos]

In the Bible, Jesus (pbuh) said to the Jews: “Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof.” (Matthew 21:43)

What other nation beside the modern Muslims of today bow down to GOD Almighty in the most proper way? What other nation beside the modern Muslims Glorify GOD Almighty in their 5-daily Prayers, and fast the Month of Ramadan for Him?

"And God said, Sarah thy wife shall bear thee a son indeed; and thou shalt call his name Isaac: and I will establish my covenant with him for an everlasting covenant, and with his seed after him. And as for Ishmael, I have heard thee: Behold, I have blessed him, and will make him fruitful, and will multiply him exceedingly; twelve princes shall he beget, and I will make him a great nation." (Genesis 17:19-20)

The Qur’an affirms that the Jews were GOD Almighty’s chosen people: “We did aforetime grant to the Children of Israel the Book the Power of Command, and Prophethood; We gave them, for Sustenance, things good and pure; and We favoured them above the nations.” (Al-Qur’an, 45:16)

But after they utterly failed with GOD Almighty and His Messengers (Not Moses ever liked their actions, nor Jesus (peace be upon them both) ever liked them and their killings of the Prophets):

"O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not!" (Matthew 23:37)

They became cursed, and GOD Almighty removed His Kingdom from them and gave it to another nation. That nation is non other than the Muslims who came from the “blessed” Ishmael.

You are good at reading into the Torah what is NOT actually there! God in the Torah apparently promises to make His ETERNAL covenant with Isaac’s seed. Besides, not all Muslims are Ishmael’s desendants and what makes Arabs Ishmael’s decendants is NOT Mohammad’s religion. Above all, Muslims are NOT a nation in the sense as Isaac and Ishmael’s progeny were in the Torah.

Jesus in the Gospel of Matthew does not specifically state which nation the Kingdom of God will be transferred to. He simply says ANY nation that does God’s will will have divine blessing and prerogatives. Jesus deliberately uses an indefinite (singular) noun to emphasize that He denounces Israel on a national level.

It is rather weird that Mohammad’s scribes - while writing the Koran - forgot to explain why Allah decided to extend His grace only to Arabs although He had alternative nations to choose and bless. For instance, Greeks are considered a great nation in the 30th Surah of the Koran.

 

[hamba2han]

… esus in the Gospel of Matthew does not specifically state which nation the Kingdom of God will be transferred to. He simply says ANY nation that does God’s will will have divine blessing and prerogatives. Jesus deliberately uses an indefinite (singular) noun to emphasize that He denounces Israel on a national level. …

In the Bible, Jesus (pbuh) said to the Jews: “Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof.” (Matthew 21:43)

What other nation beside the modern Muslims of today bow down to GOD Almighty in the most proper way? What other nation beside the modern Muslims Glorify GOD Almighty in their 5-daily Prayers, and fast the Month of Ramadan for Him?

Ponder upon this question honestly and with a sincere desire to seek the Truth and God-willing, you will obtain the answer… and to assist you in this noble endeavour, I suggest that you refer to this thread of which the following are the relevant posts:

1, 2, 4, 5, 60, 76, 101, 129, 153, 154 and also this post from another thread.

 

[inJESUS]

In the Bible, Jesus (pbuh) said to the Jews: "Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof."

(Matthew 21:43) Jesus’ disciples reached that nation, the non-Jews.

What other nation beside the modern Muslims of today bow down to GOD Almighty in the most proper way?

 

[hamba2han]

… who said bowing down is the “most proper way”? surely not Jesus.

Between Christians and Muslims, which nation would pray in the manner that Jesus (pbuh) himself prayed?

In a book entitled, “To Pray as a Jew”, a lengthy explanation is given of the Prayers as done by the ancient Jews and a few of the contemporary Jews. In this book the author put diagrams showing the movement and positions during the prayer and one quickly realizes the similarity of the prayers of the Jews then and the Salat as practiced by the Muslims.

http://www.submission.org/jews-1.jpghttp://www.submission.org/jews-2.jpg

In his comment about these positions the author wrote : “In most contemporary congregations very few people keep to the tradition of falling prostrate. Sometimes it is only the Prayer leader and the rabbi who does so. In more traditional congregations, however, some worshipers, men and women, will join the Prayer Leader and rabbi in the act of prostrating themselves. In Israeli synagogues, the practice is more widespread than in synagogues elsewhere. Since this is a position that we are unaccustomed to, one who has never done this before might very well demur. But once accomplished, the experience provides such a spiritual uplift that one looks forward to repeating it.”

It is also interesting to learn from this book that the prayers of the Jews involve wash before the prayers, (like Wuduu or ablution for Muslims), and the call for Prayers (like the Azan for the Muslims).

 

[Booklover]

Between Christians and Muslims, which nation would pray in the manner that Jesus (pbuh) himself prayed?

In a book entitled, “To Pray as a Jew”, a lengthy explanation is given of the Prayers as done by the ancient Jews and a few of the contemporary Jews. In this book the author put diagrams showing the movement and positions during the prayer and one quickly realizes the similarity of the prayers of the Jews then and the Salat as practiced by the Muslims.

http://www.submission.org/jews-1.jpghttp://www.submission.org/jews-2.jpg

In his comment about these positions the author wrote : “In most contemporary congregations very few people keep to the tradition of falling prostrate. Sometimes it is only the Prayer leader and the rabbi who does so. In more traditional congregations, however, some worshipers, men and women, will join the Prayer Leader and rabbi in the act of prostrating themselves. In Israeli synagogues, the practice is more widespread than in synagogues elsewhere. Since this is a position that we are unaccustomed to, one who has never done this before might very well demur. But once accomplished, the experience provides such a spiritual uplift that one looks forward to repeating it.”

It is also interesting to learn from this book that the prayers of the Jews involve wash before the prayers, (like Wuduu or ablution for Muslims), and the call for Prayers (like the Azan for the Muslims).

Jesus called the Pharisees hypocrites because all they did was for show, but they had no interior virtue! He told them to clean the INSIDE of the cup so the outside would be clean! Do you understand what that means?

How about this:

You’re like whited sepulchres that are very pretty on the outside and filled with dead men’s bones and all kinds of filth on the inside!

Vickie

 

[inJESUS]

Between Christians and Muslims, which nation would pray in the manner that Jesus (pbuh) himself prayed?

wake up buddy…Jesus never said there is a better and a worse position.When you can prove the opposite, come back.

 

[Booklover]

Jesus’ disciples reached that nation, the non-Jews.
who said bowing down is the “most proper way”? surely not Jesus.

Christians…duh…we pray (unlimited), fast (over a month, and when we eat, we do not put tables as in ramadan that cost millions and gain 10 kilos at the end of the month and belly dancers and sheesha to smoke), meditate, go to mass or do you believe we are some kind of aliens?

 

[Angelos]

In the Bible, Jesus (pbuh) said to the Jews: “Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof.” (Matthew 21:43)

What other nation beside the modern Muslims of today bow down to GOD Almighty in the most proper way? What other nation beside the modern Muslims Glorify GOD Almighty in their 5-daily Prayers, and fast the Month of Ramadan for Him?

Ponder upon this question honestly and with a sincere desire to seek the Truth and God-willing, you will obtain the answer… and to assist you in this noble endeavour, I suggest that you refer to this thread of which the following are the relevant posts:

1, 2, 4, 5, 60, 76, 101, 129, 153, 154 and also this post from another thread.

Where in the Gospel of Matthew or any other Gospel does Jesus say that God’s Kingdom will be given to a nation that fasts in the month of Ramadan and prays five times a day in the same manner as Muslims do (Muslims apparently copied salaat from Syriac Christians!)???

You seem to confuse Islamic scripture with the New Testament.

 

[inJESUS]

prays five times a day in the same manner as Muslims do (Muslims apparently copied salaat from Syriac Christians!)???

true which includes 'adab (manner) of worship with stand up, kneeling down, and bow within Shalat/Prayers and the tradition of reading Bible with “Tartil” (recitation) and the art of caligraph.

 

[swariffin]

true which includes 'adab (manner) of worship with stand up, kneeling down, and bow within Shalat/Prayers and the tradition of reading Bible with “Tartil” (recitation) and the art of caligraph.

Yep, why do a MANNER of PRAYER determine the correctness rather than WHAT IS SAID in the prayer. Will God listen to me praying the manner that Muslims do, but my prayer is for the anihilation of one specific race of humanity?

 

[inJESUS]

Yep, why do a MANNER of PRAYER determine the correctness rather than WHAT IS SAID in the prayer. Will God listen to me praying the manner that Muslims do, but my prayer is for the anihilation of one specific race of humanity?

because it is important to Allah that you pray the “obligatory” prayers in definite positions…other prayers are not bound by legalism…

after all, what Muslims are doing is actually very Christian (though not necessaily practiced in the West but hey Muhammad was an Arab), however, they fail to get that these are not “divine” positions asked by God otherwise you’re no good Christian. So those who accuse us of not “worshipping” in the correct way must remember that we gave them their “proper” way and practiced it before Allah’s “revelations”. .

 

[Sepharad]

Jesus called the Pharisees hypocrites because all they did was for show, but they had no interior virtue! He told them to clean the INSIDE of the cup so the outside would be clean! Do you understand what that means?

How about this:

You’re like whited sepulchres that are very pretty on the outside and filled with dead men’s bones and all kinds of filth on the inside!

Vickie

I always saw that passage by Jesus as proving he never intended to found a new religion, but to purify the one he was born into.

I especially like this passage: "Woe to you scribes, Pharisees, hypocrites! For you pay tithes of mint, anise and cumin, but have omitted the weightier matters of the Law, which are justice, mercy and truth.

These you ought to have done, and not left the others undone."

Jesus was trying to do, in his day, what Jewish Renewalists try to do in our day: restore to traditional Judaism the spirit of the Law!

 

[hamba2han]

because it is important to Allah that you pray the “obligatory” prayers in definite positions…other prayers are not bound by legalism…

after all, what Muslims are doing is actually very Christian (though not necessaily practiced in the West but hey Muhammad was an Arab), however, they fail to get that these are not “divine” positions asked by God otherwise you’re no good Christian. So those who accuse us of not “worshipping” in the correct way must remember that we gave them their “proper” way and practiced it before Allah’s “revelations”. .

Exodus 20:3–5
3 Do not have any other gods before me.
4 You shall not make for yourself an idol, whether in the form of anything that is in heaven above, or that is on the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth.
5 You shall not bow down to them or worship them; for I the Lord your God am a jealous God, punishing children for the iniquity of parents, to the third and the fourth generation of those who reject me,

Did Jesus (pbuh) ever pray to his mother?



Is God pleased when the Pope prays to Mary’s statue?

Does the Pope believe in adhering to the Ten Commandments?

 

[Angelos]

Exodus 20:3–5
3 Do not have any other gods before me.
4 You shall not make for yourself an idol, whether in the form of anything that is in heaven above, or that is on the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth.
5 You shall not bow down to them or worship them; for I the Lord your God am a jealous God, punishing children for the iniquity of parents, to the third and the fourth generation of those who reject me,

Did Jesus (pbuh) ever pray to his mother?

http://brothermichael.files.wordpress.com/2007/12/ratnisis.jpg

Is God pleased when the Pope prays to Mary’s statue?

Does the Pope believe in adhering to the Ten Commandments?

In this picture the Pope is not praying TO the blessed Mary, but praying WITH her.

God of the Bible would of course NOT be pleased with us Christians if we prayed to statues. However, Allah of the Koran asks Muslims to worship the idol in Mecca (his supposed house) five times everyday and kiss its black stone during the pilgrimage.

 

[Booklover]

In this picture the Pope is not praying TO the blessed Mary, but praying WITH her.

God of the Bible would of course NOT be pleased with us Christians if we prayed to statues. However, Allah of the Koran asks Muslims to worship the idol in Mecca (his supposed house) five times everyday and kiss its black stone during the pilgrimage.

Vickie

 

[Sepharad]

How does someone pray ‘with’ a statue?

And could not a Catholic pray to someone without needing a graven image of them to be there? Couldn’t a Catholic use a picture, if necessary, as the Eastern Catholics and Orthodox do (ikons)?

I have no trouble praying to God without a need to see a picture of Him (chas ve’sholom), (but He is invisible anyway.)

Why do Catholics seem to need a visual representation, esp. in the form of a statue?