Jesus, the Son of God

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When do you suppose Jesus realized that He was the Son of God? Did it happen when He was just a child? Did it happen just before He began His ministry?

This is a subject I don’t ever remember thinking about much at all but I believe it is a very important subject.

I have my own theories, and that is all they are—theories so far—and I want to know what others think about it.
 
Old_Scholar said:
When do you suppose Jesus realized that He was the Son of God? Did it happen when He was just a child? Did it happen just before He began His ministry?

This is a subject I don’t ever remember thinking about much at all but I believe it is a very important subject.

I have my own theories, and that is all they are—theories so far—and I want to know what others think about it.
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Scriptures tells us that it was during his childhood:

41Every year his parents went to Jerusalem for the Feast of the Passover. 42When he was twelve years old, they went up to the Feast, according to the custom. 43After the Feast was over, while his parents were returning home, the boy Jesus stayed behind in Jerusalem, but they were unaware of it. 44Thinking he was in their company, they traveled on for a day. Then they began looking for him among their relatives and friends. 45When they did not find him, they went back to Jerusalem to look for him. 46After three days they found him in the temple courts, sitting among the teachers, listening to them and asking them questions. 47Everyone who heard him was amazed at his understanding and his answers. 48When his parents saw him, they were astonished. His mother said to him, “Son, why have you treated us like this? Your father and I have been anxiously searching for you.”
49"Why were you searching for me?" he asked. “Didn’t you know I had to be in my Father’s house?” 50But they did not understand what he was saying to them.

51Then he went down to Nazareth with them and was obedient to them. But his mother treasured all these things in her heart. 52And Jesus grew in wisdom and stature, and in favor with God and men. (St. Luke 2:41-51)

Maran atha!

Angel
 
Old_Scholar said:
When do you suppose Jesus realized that He was the Son of God? Did it happen when He was just a child? Did it happen just before He began His ministry?

This is a subject I don’t ever remember thinking about much at all but I believe it is a very important subject.

I have my own theories, and that is all they are—theories so far—and I want to know what others think about it.
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Jesus is God so he obviously knew everything always.
 
I don’t think we can know with certainty when Jesus the man became fully conscious of his divinity. Since he was truly man, then his consciousness as an infant would have been the same as any babies’ (without the stain of sin, of course). For example, an infant’s world is mostly consumed with their mother and their basic needs - hunger, pain, joy, etc. They are not Aristotelian philosophers yet. 🙂 It would go against the Catholic belief that Christ became truly man to think that his consciousness was any different than any other infant’s.

By the time he was twelve, he obviously understood that he had a special relationship with God, but would have understood it at a (sinless) 12-year-old level. This might mean that he fully understood it, but there is no way to know. Clearly, by the time he was an adult he had a full and conscious understanding of exactly who he was - the eternally begotten Son of God.

I emphasize his sinlessness, because sin darkens our minds and makes them less able to understand reality. Jesus would have never had that disadvantage and thus might have been able to understand things as child that no other child could.
This is a subject I don’t ever remember thinking about much at all but I believe it is a very important subject.
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Why do you think it an important subject? Since the definitive answer has not been given to us either through Scripture or Tradition, perhaps it is not important after all.
 
Well, there is only one Person (no human person) in Jesus - the Divine Second Person of the Trinity.

There is only one person in you - a human person. When did you know you were a human (and not an animal, stone, angel, etc.)

I rather think the capabilities of a Divine person far, far, far… exceed our meager human capabilities.

Nita
 
Old_Scholar said:
When do you suppose Jesus *realized *that He was the Son of God?
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The language you use here implies that he was not God, but then became God. Let me explain, when Jesus was born out of the virgin, this babe by his very Being was full man without ceasing to be God. That is the mystery of the Incarnation. Hence, in simply Being God, by his mere presence, he did not need to ‘realize’ by the intellect that he was in fact the Son of God.
 
Old_Scholar said:
When do you suppose Jesus realized that He was the Son of God? Did it happen when He was just a child? Did it happen just before He began His ministry?
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Well, even if you only had the written Word as a basis, you could certainly ascertain that by 12 or so He knew, as evidenced when He said in the Temple “Did you not know that I must be about my Fathers business?”
 
M0nkey said:
The language you use here implies that he was not God, but then became God. Let me explain, when Jesus was born out of the virgin, this babe by his very Being was full man without ceasing to be God. That is the mystery of the Incarnation. Hence, in simply Being God, by his mere presence, he did not need to ‘realize’ by the intellect that he was in fact the Son of God.
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This comes the closest to the truth I think. The Hypostatic Union of God, the Only-Begotten, with a True Human Nature, body and soul, is a MOST sublime mystery of the Incarnation, the very core of Christianity. To liken the Hypostatic Union to a mere mortal’s normal life is very foolish and pointless. There is no other comparison that can be made, or that was revealed in the Scripture or by Holy Mother Church. That usually means it is not for us to be overly concerned with in this lifetime. 😉

But it is only in very recent times that people have started postulating that Jesus gradually became aware of his mission and his own nature. That, in my opinion, verges on Arianism. 😦 It ignores the reality of the Hypostatic Union. Jesus was not just a man, while his Godhood was as remote from him as some people regard their own souls. No, that couldn’t be more wrong.
 
M0nkey said:
The language you use here implies that he was not God, but then became God. .
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FWIW, I don’t think the language implies that at all. The question is one of awareness, not divinity.

Personally I think the subject is interesting, but not theologically important. If you’ve ever raised kids, you’ve watched the development process first hand.

I think eric sammons has a great point on the stain of sin, and how that would impact perspective. I have a friend who thinks of sin as a veil (not “the veil” of the temple) that we place between ourselves and God. It filters everything we see. Imagine not having to walk around with that filter.
 
The way I’ve heard it explained is that, yes, Jesus always knew He was God and was fully aware of his dual natures.

Now, having a human nature, He didn’t, and still can’t, understand all the intricacies of the hypostatic union. At least His human nature can’t understand it completely. His Divine Nature, of course, has it wrapped up completely.
 
I think it is important to maintain a fine balance on this issue, a balance struck at the Council of Chalcedon, which stated that Christ is “perfect in divinity and perfect in humanity, the same truly God and truly man, of a rational soul and a body; consubstantial with the Father as regards his divinity, and the same consubstantial with us as regards his humanity; like us in all respects except for sin.”

Note the dual emphases - he is perfect in divinity AND perfect in humanity; he is truly God AND truly man; he is consubstantial with the Father AND consubstantial with us. Denial of EITHER his true divinity OR his true humanity is heresy, and both heresies have had their heyday throughout Church history (e.g. Arianism and Docetism).

Obviously in modern times the tendency has been to overemphasize his humanity, even to the point of denying his true divinity which he possessed at all times. But our response in defending his divinity cannot be to denigrate his true humanity; we must maintain the same balance as the Chalcedon Fathers.

Thus, there can be no question that Jesus was God from eternity, and that he was as much God in the womb as he was as an adult or now in glory. He did not obtain his divinity at some point such as his Baptism or resurrection; he is eternally begotten of the Father.

Yet, he was truly a man like us. He had to learn how to talk, how to walk, and who he was. As an infant, he had an infant brain that had the capabilities of an infant brain (albeit one without sin weighing it down).To denigrate or deny this reality is just as serious as denigrating or denying his divinity, and it calls into question the beautiful doctrine of the Incarnation.

But ultimately this reality is a mystery we will never understand, at least this side of heaven. Neither Scripture nor the Church has seen fit to define exactly the details of the knowledge the child Jesus had of his divinity, and thus we must leave it unanswered and realize that the question is not one God deems it important for us to know.
 
I certainly have no doubt that Jesus Christ was God prior to the human birth. The question is raised simply in order to discuss this remarkable human on earth and when He realized He was God.

Perhaps at 12 He had some ideas that He was special but I really don’t think He knew then that He was God. Many scholars believe this consciousness came to Him just prior to John the Baptist baptizing Him. Certainly the temptations and the Baptism showed that He would have had deep thoughts about just Who He was. Had He known He was God I believe He would have started His ministry much sooner than He did and we would have much more knowledge of Him.

It’s true this has no bearing on our salvation or even our personal relationship with Jesus but it is something worth discussing and I believe we can’t discuss it too much.

Just right after His baptism when God spoke from heaven is the exact moment I believe all truth was given to Him. Had Jesus known Who He was completely prior to that, why did He wait until then to start assembling His disciples and beginning His ministry?

Right from the beginning of this knowledge, Christ started building up a nucleus of disciples. The Rule of God could not exist in a vacuum. It demanded a community of men—and later also of women (Luke 8:1-3)—who were committed to the new life of total obedience to the will of God and who were ready to bring others into His service.

I believe Jesus knew a great deal but didn’t ever know His full existence until the resurrection. I believe He knew He was the Son of God but didn’t realize, in His human existence, that He was God and much more than He ever showed on earth. How else could He have been silent for so many years and then just “blossom out” into the Son of God?
 
Old_Scholar said:
I certainly have no doubt that Jesus Christ was God prior to the human birth. The question is raised simply in order to discuss this remarkable human on earth and when He realized He was God.

Perhaps at 12 He had some ideas that He was special but I really don’t think He knew then that He was God. Many scholars believe this consciousness came to Him just prior to John the Baptist baptizing Him.
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But Jesus’ words at 12 were “Where else would you look for me? Didn’t you know I would be about my Father’s business”? (Paraphrasing).

It seems like Jesus knew that he was the Son of God at least at this time.
 
AmbroseSJ said:
But it is only in very recent times that people have started postulating that Jesus gradually became aware of his mission and his own nature. That, in my opinion, verges on Arianism. 😦 It ignores the reality of the Hypostatic Union. Jesus was not just a man, while his Godhood was as remote from him as some people regard their own souls. No, that couldn’t be more wrong.
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Hi, AmbroseSJ!

I concur with you–I did not see this angle on the query… I simply thought that the question was directed from a human point of view: the development of Jesus as a human being as suggested by Scriptures; I can see how even this could be twisted about to mean that there would have been a time when Jesus was not cognizant of His Divinity.

Thank you for your clarification.

Maran atha!

Angel
 
NotWorthy said:
The way I’ve heard it explained is that, yes, Jesus always knew He was God and was fully aware of his dual natures.

Now, having a human nature, He didn’t, and still can’t, understand all the intricacies of the hypostatic union. At least His human nature can’t understand it completely. His Divine Nature, of course, has it wrapped up completely.
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Hi, NotWorthy!

…but even if we were to accept that definition… wouldn’t it be missing something since it suggests that inspite of His Resurrection and Ascension Jesus remained unchanged?:

42So will it be with the resurrection of the dead. The body that is sown is perishable, it is raised imperishable; 43it is sown in dishonor, it is raised in glory; it is sown in weakness, it is raised in power; 44it is sown a natural body, it is raised a spiritual body.
If there is a natural body, there is also a spiritual body. 45So it is written: “The first man Adam became a living being”; the last Adam, a life-giving spirit. 46The spiritual did not come first, but the natural, and after that the spiritual. 47The first man was of the dust of the earth, the second man from heaven. 48As was the earthly man, so are those who are of the earth; and as is the man from heaven, so also are those who are of heaven. 49And just as we have borne the likeness of the earthly man, so shall we bear the likeness of the man from heaven. (1 Corinthians 15:42-49)

8Love never fails. But where there are prophecies, they will cease; where there are tongues, they will be stilled; where there is knowledge, it will pass away. 9For we know in part and we prophesy in part, 10but when perfection comes, the imperfect disappears… 12Now we see but a poor reflection as in a mirror; then we shall see face to face. Now I know in part; then I shall know fully, even as I am fully known. (1 Corinthians 13:8-10, 12)

Maran atha!

Angel
 
eric_sammons said:
I think it is important to maintain a fine balance on this issue, a balance struck at the Council of Chalcedon, which stated that Christ is “perfect in divinity and perfect in humanity, the same truly God and truly man, of a rational soul and a body; consubstantial with the Father as regards his divinity, and the same consubstantial with us as regards his humanity; like us in all respects except for sin.”

Note the dual emphases - he is perfect in divinity AND perfect in humanity; he is truly God AND truly man; he is consubstantial with the Father AND consubstantial with us. Denial of EITHER his true divinity OR his true humanity is heresy, and both heresies have had their heyday throughout Church history (e.g. Arianism and Docetism).

Obviously in modern times the tendency has been to overemphasize his humanity, even to the point of denying his true divinity which he possessed at all times. But our response in defending his divinity cannot be to denigrate his true humanity; we must maintain the same balance as the Chalcedon Fathers.

Thus, there can be no question that Jesus was God from eternity, and that he was as much God in the womb as he was as an adult or now in glory. He did not obtain his divinity at some point such as his Baptism or resurrection; he is eternally begotten of the Father.

Yet, he was truly a man like us. He had to learn how to talk, how to walk, and who he was. As an infant, he had an infant brain that had the capabilities of an infant brain (albeit one without sin weighing it down).To denigrate or deny this reality is just as serious as denigrating or denying his divinity, and it calls into question the beautiful doctrine of the Incarnation.

But ultimately this reality is a mystery we will never understand, at least this side of heaven. Neither Scripture nor the Church has seen fit to define exactly the details of the knowledge the child Jesus had of his divinity, and thus we must leave it unanswered and realize that the question is not one God deems it important for us to know.
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Hi, erick sammons!

Excellent post! 👍

Maran atha!

Angel
 
Old_Scholar said:
I certainly have no doubt that Jesus Christ was God prior to the human birth. The question is raised simply in order to discuss this remarkable human on earth and when He realized He was God.

Perhaps at 12 He had some ideas that He was special but I really don’t think He knew then that He was God. Many scholars believe this consciousness came to Him just prior to John the Baptist baptizing Him. Certainly the temptations and the Baptism showed that He would have had deep thoughts about just Who He was. Had He known He was God I believe He would have started His ministry much sooner than He did and we would have much more knowledge of Him.

It’s true this has no bearing on our salvation or even our personal relationship with Jesus but it is something worth discussing and I believe we can’t discuss it too much.

Just right after His baptism when God spoke from heaven is the exact moment I believe all truth was given to Him. Had Jesus known Who He was completely prior to that, why did He wait until then to start assembling His disciples and beginning His ministry?

Right from the beginning of this knowledge, Christ started building up a nucleus of disciples. The Rule of God could not exist in a vacuum. It demanded a community of men—and later also of women (Luke 8:1-3)—who were committed to the new life of total obedience to the will of God and who were ready to bring others into His service.

I believe Jesus knew a great deal but didn’t ever know His full existence until the resurrection. I believe He knew He was the Son of God but didn’t realize, in His human existence, that He was God and much more than He ever showed on earth. How else could He have been silent for so many years and then just “blossom out” into the Son of God?
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Now I recall who you are…

…you can believe all you want since we all are granted the illusion of having an opinion when it comes to God.

May the Holy Spirit enlighten you and may you find Truth not just conjectures!

Maran atha!

Angel
 
NotWorthy said:
But Jesus’ words at 12 were “Where else would you look for me? Didn’t you know I would be about my Father’s business”? (Paraphrasing).

It seems like Jesus knew that he was the Son of God at least at this time.
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…don’t bother… remember that old adage, “can’t beat a dead mule?”

Maran atha!

Angel
 
jcrichton said:
Hi, NotWorthy!

…but even if we were to accept that definition… wouldn’t it be missing something since it suggests that inspite of His Resurrection and Ascension Jesus remained unchanged?:
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I don’t understand your dilemma. Jesus’ Body is raised and glorified, but he still has a human nature with human limitations. Will we understand everything that God does if we get to heaven? No. We will always have limitations, just as Jesus’ human nature will always have human limitations (in my opinion).
 
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