Jesus vs Muhammad

[qwerk]

My point being with no central authority that they, like protestants, will forever be in conflict. Sunni and Shiite will never agree on a Caliph we will have perpetual war.

They have perpetual war in Islam no matter if they have a caliph or not. It states in Sharia laws, like I posted that the caliphs main duty is to war against the non-Muslims. They think the salvation of their souls depend on it and that is why with the millions upon millions of peaceful Muslims show no outrage over the violence and have no intentions of changing anything in Islam to stop it. They only expend their energy to The laws are ok with it, and the Quran and Sunnah teach it is a good thing.

Good article.

Sunni and Shia never agree unless they have a common enemy such as the Jews, but even at that they still are after each other as we see in Iraq. The Shia are a minority in most of the Middle East and are treated as dhimmi, as unbelievers. They are known for their taqiyya too and the Sunni like to tell us that it is only the Shia who do that, but it isn’t true. The Sunni do it when the circumstances are right such as in our lands of dar al harb.

 

[algebra]

It states in Sharia laws, like I posted that the caliphs main duty is to war against the non-Muslims. They think the salvation of their souls depend on it and that is why with the millions upon millions of peaceful Muslims.

What a load of junk this post is, Im just really sorry its coming from a Catholic.

I dont even know where to begin refuting it.

Please get educated about islam, before you post absolutely untrue stuff.

 

[algebra]

what was this expression means in the hebrew culture for these people ?

The term “Son of God” does not mean anything to Hebrews.

Christian scripture calls Jesus the “Son of God” in the Transfiguration.

It announces the relationship between the Father and Son, which existed eternally, but is now made known to man.

 

[qwerk]

What a load of junk this post is, Im just really sorry its coming from a Catholic.

I dont even know where to begin refuting it.

Please get educated about islam, before you post absolutely untrue stuff.

#1. I never said I was a Catholic and before you go all in a huff maybe check out, or ask, where are my sources.

#2. Let me quote some things from the book of Sharia laws, Umdat as-Salik :

o8.4 There is no expiation (no act of atonement, or punishment) for killing someone who has left islam, a highwayman or a convicted married adulterer, even when somone besides the caliph kills him.

O9.8 reveal the truth: The caliph makes war on Jews…fights all other peoples until they become Muslim. War in Islam is automatic and continuous until the last day or total world conquest, which ever comes first.

The caliph (o25) makes war upon Jews, Christians, and Zoroastrians (N: provided he has first invited them to enter Islam in faith and practice, and if they will not, then invited them to enter the social order of Islam by paying the non-Muslim poll tax (jizya, def: o11.4) -which is the significance of their paying it, not the money itself-while remaining in their ancestral religions) (O: and the war continues) until they become Muslim or else pay the non-Muslim poll tax (O: in accordance with the word of Allah Most High,

“Fight those who do not believe in Allah and the Last Day and who forbid not what Allah and His messenger have forbidden-who do not practice the religion of truth, being of those who have been given the Book-until they pay the poll tax out of hand and are humbled” (Koran 9.29)

O9.9
The caliph fights all other peoples until they become Muslim (O: because they are not a people with a Book,…

Caliph Umar’s general told the Persians:
…Our Prophet, the Messenger of our Lord, has ordered us to fight you till you worship Allah Alone or give Jizya (i.e. tribute); and our Prophet has informed us that our Lord says:– “Whoever amongst us is killed (i.e. martyred), shall go to Paradise to lead such a luxurious life as he has never seen, and whoever amongst us remain alive, shall become your master.”… Sahih Bukhari Volume 4, Book 53, Number 386

 

[LittleSoldier]

i like to hear that from you
the kindness words have great influences upon those who differ with you in openion , keep that in your mind
if you have the truth and you wanna to guide me to it then you need my trust in you , bashing the relegion isn’t a good way for that

This post is very profound and should be a lesson for all of us.

Sometimes we become very unkind and I’m including myself.

Showing Truth while spewing hatred will accomplish nothing positive.

Showing Truth with love and kindess will accomplish miracles.

…just a note from a lurker (with insomnia) reading this thread…

God’s peace to you all!

*Holy Mother, please keep
all unborn children safe tonight.

St. Francis, please pray for all unwanted and hurt animals.*

 

[KS_On_The_Rock]

This post is very profound and should be a lesson for all of us.

Sometimes we become very unkind and I’m including myself.

Showing Truth while spewing hatred will accomplish nothing positive.

Showing Truth with love and kindess will accomplish miracles.

…just a note from a lurker (with insomnia) reading this thread…

God’s peace to you all!

*Holy Mother, please keep
all unborn children safe tonight.

St. Francis, please pray for all unwanted and hurt animals.*

Amen to that Little Soldier! I have been trying to say that for several posts. Glad someone else finally feels the same as I.

May God Bless you and keep you in the palm of His hand. :hug3:

KS

 

[NEWCATHOLICJEFF]

This post is very profound and should be a lesson for all of us. Sometimes we become very unkind and I’m including myself. Showing Truth while spewing hatred will accomplish nothing positive. Showing Truth with love and kindness will accomplish miracles. …just a note from a lurker (with insomnia) reading this thread…
God’s peace to you all! Holy Mother, please keep all unborn children safe tonight.
St. Francis, please pray for all unwanted and hurt animals.

I like the posts… You know Christians did a LOT of terrible things, even to ourselves. Look at what Rome did to Constantinople. I think Islam is still 1000 years behind us in maturity. They have a LONG way to go to grow up and out of their violent ways. That being said we Catholics have a LONG way to grow past contraception… we are killing ourselves and or stopping life… Kind of hard to see the flaws with the log in my eye…

 

[Sam_777]

For Christians who are happily pointing to Matthew 15-11 as “justification” for them to consume pork and blood:

11What goes into a man’s mouth does not make him ‘unclean,’ but what comes out of his mouth, that is what makes him ‘unclean.’ "

They really do need to refer to a later passage in the chapter in order to view and understand the above verse in it’s proper and correct context:

16"Are you still so dull?" Jesus asked them.
17"Don’t you see that whatever enters the mouth goes into the stomach and then out of the body?
18But the things that come out of the mouth come from the heart, and these make a man ‘unclean.’
19For out of the heart come evil thoughts, murder, adultery, sexual immorality, theft, false testimony, slander.
20These are what make a man ‘unclean’; but eating with unwashed hands does not make him ‘unclean.’ "

You see, Jesus (pbuh) was most certainly not giving permission to his followers to consume pork and blood because verse 11 above is referring to those who eat with unwashed hands, NOT those who consume pork and blood which is forbidden according to the teachings of Jesus (pbuh).

I urge Christians to follow Jesus (pbuh) and stop consuming pork and blood.

Indeed, some are following this quote:

(1 Corinthians 10:23-24):
“Everything is permissible"—but not everything is beneficial. “Everything is permissible”—but not everything is constructive. Nobody should seek his own good, but the good of others.”

 

[hamba2han]

Indeed, some are following this quote:

(1 Corinthians 10:23-24):
“Everything is permissible"—but not everything is beneficial. “Everything is permissible”—but not everything is constructive. Nobody should seek his own good, but the good of others.”

When you consider who it was that wrote the verses that you have quoted, then you will appreciate the truth of this verse of the Qur’an:

They take their priests and their anchorites to be their lords in derogation of Allah, and (they take as their Lord) Christ the son of Mary; yet they were commanded to worship but One Allah: there is no god but He. Praise and glory to Him: (Far is He) from having the partners they associate (with Him). … Al-Qur’an, 009.031

Christians consider the words of the author of 1 Corinthians 10:23-24 to supersede the words of Jesus (pbuh) according to their own Bible.

Matthew 5:17-20
17"Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them.
18I tell you the truth, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished.
19Anyone who breaks one of the least of these commandments and teaches others to do the same will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever practices and teaches these commands will be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
20For I tell you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the Pharisees and the teachers of the law, you will certainly not enter the kingdom of heaven.

And so, who is it that Christians are following – the author of 1 Corinthians 10:23-24 or Jesus Christ (pbuh)?

 

[algebra]

#1. I never said I was a Catholic and before you go all in a huff maybe check out, or ask, where are my sources.

Ah, the hyper-individualism of protestantism, I should have recognized that from the maniacal tone of your post.

o8.4 There is no expiation (no act of atonement, or punishment) for killing someone who has left islam, a highwayman or a convicted married adulterer, even when somone besides the caliph kills him.

Kaafirs - or apostates from political islam, their act is treasonous to the state, so yes they are to be executed for treason.

O9.8 reveal the truth: The caliph makes war on Jews…fights all other peoples until they become Muslim. War in Islam is automatic and continuous until the last day or total world conquest, which ever comes first.

The rule of the caliph is for

O9.9
The caliph fights all other peoples until they become Muslim (O: because they are not a people with a Book,…

Caliph Umar’s general told the Persians:
…Our Prophet, the Messenger of our Lord, has ordered us to fight you till you worship Allah Alone or give Jizya (i.e. tribute); and our Prophet has informed us that our Lord says:– “Whoever amongst us is killed (i.e. martyred), shall go to Paradise to lead such a luxurious life as he has never seen, and whoever amongst us remain alive, shall become your master.”… Sahih Bukhari Volume 4, Book 53, Number 386

Yes but see how you have twisted the texts into your own bizarre interpretation.

qwerk:

They have perpetual war in Islam no matter if they have a caliph or not. It states in Sharia laws, like I posted that the caliphs main duty is to war against the non-Muslims. They think the salvation of their souls depend on it and that is why with the millions upon millions of peaceful Muslims show no outrage over the violence and have no intentions of changing anything in Islam to stop it.

Show me where it says the “main duty” of the caliph is to declare war of non-Muslims.

Or show me where it says the “salvation” (BTW muslims dont believe in salvation) of their souls is dependant on their wars with non-Muslims?

The Truth is that one of the roles of the caliph is to conduct war in the interest of islam, that is not to say that it is his “main role”, because his main role is to govern the caliphate, much like the US presidents role is not just to declare war on other people, but GWB did a fine job of that.
**
Nor is a muslim’s reward of paradise dependent on his support for a muslim war, it is dependent on his positive actions weighed against his sins.**

 

[algebra]

And so, who is it that Christians are following – the author of 1 Corinthians 10:23-24 or Jesus Christ (pbuh)?

Hamba christians do follow the moral laws that gentiles are obligated to follow.

The dietary laws of the Torah were ONLY for the jews, as part of the covenant that resulted in the Messiah Jesus.

Those laws have NOTHING to do with salvation.

Its important to note this distinction.

So for a muslim, if the choice is between eating khanzir and murdering and eating another human being to stay alive - the obvious choice is to eat Khanzir, even thought you consider that a sin.

It is obvious that in that situation eating pig will not cause you to merit hell fire.

However the same is not true for murder, it is never ok to murder another individual.
You can defend yourself, and if they get killed in your defence that is not murder.

But to murder another person is a sin that will always send you into the hell fire.

 

[hamba2han]

Hamba christians do follow the moral laws that gentiles are obligated to follow.

The dietary laws of the Torah were ONLY for the jews, as part of the covenant that resulted in the Messiah Jesus.

Those laws have NOTHING to do with salvation.

Its important to note this distinction.

So for a muslim, if the choice is between eating khanzir and murdering and eating another human being to stay alive - the obvious choice is to eat Khanzir, even thought you consider that a sin.

It is obvious that in that situation eating pig will not cause you to merit hell fire.

However the same is not true for murder, it is never ok to murder another individual.
You can defend yourself, and if they get killed in your defence that is not murder.

But to murder another person is a sin that will always send you into the hell fire.

"The dietary laws of the Torah were ONLY for the jews, as part of the covenant that resulted in the Messiah Jesus."

Who was it that said this – Jesus Christ (pbuh) himself or someone else in Christian history?

If Jesus (pbuh) himself did not say this, then why are the professed “followers” of Jesus following the words of that someone else instead of the actual words of Jesus (pbuh)?

 

[qwerk]

Ah, the hyper-individualism of protestantism, I should have recognized that from the maniacal tone of your post.

Kaafirs - or apostates from political islam, their act is treasonous to the state, so yes they are to be executed for treason.

Yes but see how you have twisted the texts into your own bizarre interpretation.

Show me where it says the “main duty” of the caliph is to declare war of non-Muslims.

Or show me where it says the “salvation” (BTW muslims dont believe in salvation) of their souls is dependant on their wars with non-Muslims?

The Truth is that one of the roles of the caliph is to conduct war in the interest of islam, that is not to say that it is his “main role”, because his main role is to govern the caliphate, much like the US presidents role is not just to declare war on other people, but GWB did a fine job of that.
**
Nor is a muslim’s reward of paradise dependent on his support for a muslim war, it is dependent on his positive actions weighed against his sins.**

Talk about twisted. All you do is hate protestants, GWB, you are just another GWB hater. And you defend what you don’t even know.

I think that your post is the worst that I have ever read on this forum and will leave you here. You can read the book of Sharia laws for yourself. Reliance of the Traveller. Maybe read “The Decline of Eastern Christianity Under Islam” by Bat Ye’or.

How was it that a small contingent of militant Muslims was able to sweep across Asia Minor and vast portions of Europe so fast in the 8th Century and turn the non-Muslim populations into dhimmis when the invaders didn’t speak the local languages and the non-Muslims were in the majority? The answer is found in a book by Bat Ye’or whose title and number of pages would be imposing to all but the most ardent students of Islamic history.

Well, in trudging through this book, it was clear that immediately after the Islamic invasions of each region, the local gentry, politicians, and (alas) non-Muslim clergy conspired with the victorious Muslims and became their cohorts in the subjugation of the region’s peasants. It was actually the Christian clergy that collected the jizya tax, skimming off some for the church and then passing on the remainder to the Muslim rulers. Were it not for the collusion of these upper class and religious leaders (who were primarily interested in preserving their own social and political status), the invading Muslims would have eventually run out of resources and would have been driven out of the region by the local populace.

This is an important insight because most people in the US and Europe are convinced that the Muslims constitute such a small minority that they could never take over our countries. What we (who see the world differently) need to convince the unmotivated masses is that the new fifth column of Islamic imperialism is already in place in our countries – the Sheriff Bacas, the Gerry Connollys, and the Archbishop Rowan Williams – who will serve the Islamists as long as their own empires remain intact. This is a false hope – as the end of Bat Ye’or’s book clearly shows – everyone looses when the Muslims take over.

As for the salvation of their souls being dependend on waging war against us. I started a thread called ‘Jihad and its true meaning’. Go there for the definition of Jihad.

 

[Reuben_J]

Ah, the hyper-individualism of protestantism, I should have recognized that from the maniacal tone of your post.

I like much of your posts because they are informative but is that comment really necessary?

 

[Reuben_J]

"The dietary laws of the Torah were ONLY for the jews, as part of the covenant that resulted in the Messiah Jesus."

Who was it that said this – Jesus Christ (pbuh) himself or someone else in Christian history?

If Jesus (pbuh) himself did not say this, then why are the professed “followers” of Jesus following the words of that someone else instead of the actual words of Jesus (pbuh)?

If it is in the Bible then it is to be believed because the words in the Bibles are divinely inspired. The Bible does not consist of the Gospels only much less the the utterance of Jesus which in some translations printed red but all the Books in there and one have to read them in total and in context - each Book compliments and explains the other.

Remember Jesus did not write the Gospels - they were written by his followers. There were no additions to the Bible after it was complied and completed - so there is no new revelations much later by the followers that are not in the Bible. Anything that contradict the Bible after the Bible was canonized is not accepted as the truth.

 

[algebra]

If Jesus (pbuh) himself did not say this, then why are the professed “followers” of Jesus following the words of that someone else instead of the actual words of Jesus (pbuh)?

Hamba Jesus Himself said as much, when He said that His death was to PAY for the sins of mankind.

Originally the laws and the sacrifice of judaism were meant to PAY for the sins of man.

But Jesus openly claimed that He was now paying for all sins.

In essence the laws no longer save, and since they no longer save - observing them is redundant.

 

[algebra]

I like much of your posts because they are informative but is that comment really necessary?

Perhaps not, I apologize.

 

[algebra]

Talk about twisted. All you do is hate protestants, GWB, you are just another GWB hater. And you defend what you don’t even know.

I do not hate protestants, I pray for you.

I realise it is hard to understand the nature and role of community and tradition in our hyper-individualistic society, and extending that to religion makes everyone their own pope.

I just feel sorry for people like that, today if you dont like the interpretation of the Bible you hear in your church, you just go off and start your own church. There is no sense of community and no wisdom of tradition, just hyper-individualism.

The evnagelicals have done more damage to the Body of Christ than the muslims have.

 

[Reuben_J]

Perhaps not, I apologize.

You don’t have to. I suppose the discussion is a bit belligerent in some ways and so accordingly the words used. I guess we need correction sometimes but maybe just point it (the error) out objectively.

God bless.

 

[qwerk]

I do not hate protestants, I pray for you.

I realise it is hard to understand the nature and role of community and tradition in our hyper-individualistic society, and extending that to religion makes everyone their own pope.

I just feel sorry for people like that, today if you dont like the interpretation of the Bible you hear in your church, you just go off and start your own church. There is no sense of community and no wisdom of tradition, just hyper-individualism.

The evnagelicals have done more damage to the Body of Christ than the muslims have.

When you apologize, apologize to the person who you made the comment to and stop with this sort of thing if you are truly sorry. Don’t tell me what is community and what is not, or wisdom or what is not.

That last comment tells me that you are not sorry for anything other than someone else telling you that your comment was uncalled for and you apologized to that person, not to me.

Learn the difference between the ideology and the persons. Islam is an ideology, Muslims are the people. I am talking about the ideology of Islam. You are talking about Muslims. And to say that just because someone doesn’t believe like you do has done more damage than an ideology that has caused the death of millions upon millions because they do not believe in Islam is ludicrist. They still have slavery, their Sharia laws are human rights disasters, Islam is mysogynistic, full of glorified pediphiles, and non-Muslims have no rights or freedoms. But you think that other Christians are the worst.

I think that twisted doesn’t even explain your remarks.