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SuperLawyer
Guest
I don’t need to look at a Breitbart article or any third party response.
I watched the video where he said it himself.
I watched the video where he said it himself.
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LeafByNiggle
Well-known member
To quote you, "effect is the same, isn’t it? "
At one time doctors recommended blood letting too. That was then. This is now.
How many? What are their qualifications?
Since no one knows what two allegations you mean, there is not reason to give your claim any credence. As for the “take your mask off”, there is an actual video of Trump at the press conference saying that. You don’t have to “trust the Dem media” (which apparently these days is any media that has not sworn unconditional allegiance to Trump.
LeafByNiggle
Well-known member
It must some other video then, because the ones cited by Breitbart did not contain Biden saying that he would pursue a Federal mandate.
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Ridgerunner
Guest
Not hardly in this case. A recommendation is not the same thing as a mandate. Why would you even say otherwise? The fact is that Biden would, if he could, require people to wear masks. You defend it.
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SuperLawyer
Guest
Biden calls for nationwide mask mandate
Joe Biden is calling for a nationwide protective mask mandate over the next three months.
www.1011now.com
“Every single American should be wearing a mask” -Joe Biden
He’s doing mental gymnastics now because it became clear that such a direction from the fed gov’t would be unconstitutional. The fed cannot command governors to do it, they cannot commandeer a state legislature to do it, it is wholly unconstitutional and serves as a glimpse into the utter contempt that his party has for our system of gov’t.
LeafByNiggle
Well-known member
That is not a fact. That is Breitbart spin.
As RidgeRunner just put it, a recommendation is the not the same thing as a mandate. The statement you just quoted is a recommendation from Biden that states issue mandates.
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SuperLawyer
Guest
Is that why even the most left leaning of media outlets also took it as a national mandate. It wasn’t until polling data showed lack of support for it that he began to back away from the stance.
Same thing with the Antifa/BLM rioting. He refused to say a word about it until polling showed that the American electorate doesn’t support it.
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Ridgerunner
Guest
In other words, he would mandate it. The only open question is the means. A mandate is a mandate.
LeafByNiggle
Well-known member
I will not change the subject to defending what some left leaning media says. Suffice it to say they have no impact on the facts under discussion.LeafByNiggle:
Is that why even the most left leaning of media outlets also took it as a national mandate. It wasn’t until polling data showed lack of support for it that he began to back away from the stance.
LeafByNiggle
Well-known member
I suppose if he were the governor of Delaware he would mandate it. But he is not running for the governor of Delaware.LeafByNiggle:
In other words, he would mandate it. The only open question is the means. A mandate is a mandate.
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Cathoholic
Guest
umamibella . . .
Mandatory societal mask wearing was never about “defeating” a Corona surge at least in an absolute sense.
It was about flattening the curve so our health care systems were not overwhelmed like Italy was.
These parameters were put in place to slow (not abate) the spread of virus so we could “flatten the curve” so as to not overwhelm our medical/health system.
That’s a fact.
Flattening the curve does not keep people from getting a virus (see here or below).
From here . . .
It is “tragic” when people die or are hurt from economic harm too from ridiculous shutdowns and quarantining of HEALTHY people, pretend mask benefit, and imposition of dicey “social distancing” rules.
What is even worse is when you have BOTH.
When you have people dying of viruses AND dying and being harmed from economic woes.
Now the Biden has done a “180” on his mask mandate (now saying he would NOT mask mandate) I want to invite you to criticize Biden too, or “uncriticize” the people who are opposed to Government mandated mask wearing.
No it isn’t.
Mandatory societal mask wearing was never about “defeating” a Corona surge at least in an absolute sense.
It was about flattening the curve so our health care systems were not overwhelmed like Italy was.
These parameters were put in place to slow (not abate) the spread of virus so we could “flatten the curve” so as to not overwhelm our medical/health system.
That’s a fact.
Flattening the curve does not keep people from getting a virus (see here or below).
From here . . .
Flattening the curve slows down the spread, so as to not overwhelm the medical system.
It is “tragic” when people die or are hurt from economic harm too from ridiculous shutdowns and quarantining of HEALTHY people, pretend mask benefit, and imposition of dicey “social distancing” rules.
What is even worse is when you have BOTH.
When you have people dying of viruses AND dying and being harmed from economic woes.
Now the Biden has done a “180” on his mask mandate (now saying he would NOT mask mandate) I want to invite you to criticize Biden too, or “uncriticize” the people who are opposed to Government mandated mask wearing.
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Cathoholic
Guest
meltzerboy2 on Government mask mandating . . . .
Why?
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meltzerboy2
Guest
Because, like using seatbelts and not smoking in public places, wearing masks saves lives. Every reputable health expert who knows something about virology and immunology agrees with this.
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Ridgerunner
Guest
I don’t know that it’s as simple as that, is it? There are different kinds of masks; some much more effective than others. Some people change them regularly. Some don’t. Some wear them when they can be seen. Some don’t. Some obviously let moisture particles escape even though the “experts” say they stop them. Ever see your glasses or someone else’s steam up with every breath? That alone ought to tell you the masks don’t stop all moisture particles.
But another question needs to be asked. If the elderly and (other?) immunosuppressed people are the only ones at risk, why does the whole population need to wear masks, especially under penalty of law? Why not spend the effort on the ones who are actually vulnerable? Masking up the whole population to prevent a handful of headaches and dry coughs among others is not obviously worth all of this.
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Cathoholic
Guest
Melterboy2 on Government mandated mask wearing . . .
Even N95 masks block only 95% (hence the name N95) of small particulate matter (if I recall correctly it is 3 microns).
How much less an old t-shirt turned-mask?
Or a paper fiber mask that has been worn and re-worn for many days, sometimes months?
Or a bandana mask that actually jettisons the virions out further?
Or a valve-mask that let’s you exhale virus-laden breath all over a room full of people?
Or an extra trip or two to the dentist because of your self-induced “mask-mouth” that you gave to yourself from your mask resulting in dental caries and gum inflammation (gingivitis)?
Who says masks saves lives?
I thought the purpose of Government mandated masking was a temporary measure along with artificial social distancing, and quarantining HEALTHY people (“Stay Home!”) was to merely SLOW the spread?
To flatten the curve and preserve of health care system and all of that (here is THAT again) . . .
No it doesn’t.
Even N95 masks block only 95% (hence the name N95) of small particulate matter (if I recall correctly it is 3 microns).
How much less an old t-shirt turned-mask?
Or a paper fiber mask that has been worn and re-worn for many days, sometimes months?
Or a bandana mask that actually jettisons the virions out further?
Or a valve-mask that let’s you exhale virus-laden breath all over a room full of people?
Or an extra trip or two to the dentist because of your self-induced “mask-mouth” that you gave to yourself from your mask resulting in dental caries and gum inflammation (gingivitis)?
Who says masks saves lives?
I thought the purpose of Government mandated masking was a temporary measure along with artificial social distancing, and quarantining HEALTHY people (“Stay Home!”) was to merely SLOW the spread?
To flatten the curve and preserve of health care system and all of that (here is THAT again) . . .
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meltzerboy2
Guest
The answer to your first statement is, yes, some masks are more efficient than others, but I believe that all masks are better than none at all.
The answer to your second statement is that we are all in this together, whether we like it or not. Wearing a mask not only protects you but also protects other people, such as those who are immunosuppressed, elderly, or have other underlying conditions. The latter are not segregated from the rest of society: they too can be found in food markets, schools, businesses, and so on. So by wearing a mask, I can protect them. Further, by not wearing a mask, healthy people can be infected and, even though they may not get very ill or die from the virus, they can still bring the virus home to their parent, grandparent, etc. who may not be so healthy.
So again, we are all together in this battle against the virus. We stand or fall as a society based on our own smart or foolish behavior.
The answer to your second statement is that we are all in this together, whether we like it or not. Wearing a mask not only protects you but also protects other people, such as those who are immunosuppressed, elderly, or have other underlying conditions. The latter are not segregated from the rest of society: they too can be found in food markets, schools, businesses, and so on. So by wearing a mask, I can protect them. Further, by not wearing a mask, healthy people can be infected and, even though they may not get very ill or die from the virus, they can still bring the virus home to their parent, grandparent, etc. who may not be so healthy.
So again, we are all together in this battle against the virus. We stand or fall as a society based on our own smart or foolish behavior.
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Cathoholic
Guest
meltzerboy2 . . . .
These are all fine, but none of these feelings-based approaches will save lives.
You just ignored as all the health negatives I posted regarding societal mask wearing, put up a platitude that is unsupported, and explained your FEELINGS or at least beliefs (“but I believe that all masks are better than none at all.”)
These are all fine, but none of these feelings-based approaches will save lives.
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meltzerboy2
Guest
They are not feeling-based. If I acted according to my own feelings, I would never wear a mask outdoors. I hate wearing a mask: I feel as if I can’t breathe, especially on a hot, humid day; I can’t inhale the beautiful fresh air in New York City (OK, it’s not so fresh), and so forth. But I wear a mask anyhow because I don’t want others, as well as myself, to catch the virus, and because, as I stated, almost all virologists and immunologists have reported that mask-wearing has saved and will save people’s lives during the pandemic. My so-called “platitude” is supported by people who are experts in the field. That’s good enough for me.
As to the type of mask, I have heard that the valve-mask should be avoided, so I don’t use that one. But the N-95, which blocks 95% of particles is quite good. No, it’s not perfect, but certainly it is better than no mask. As to mask-mouth and having to go to the dentist, this is the first time I’ve heard about that. The solution, however, is not to stop wearing a mask altogether but not to wear it all day long. You usually don’t need to wear a mask at home; you don’t need to wear it if you’re out for a walk and you keep your distance from other people; you don’t need to wear a mask while you’re eating or sleeping. Look, nothing is perfect; everything has risks. But there is more risk, as a whole, to you and your neighbor by not wearing a mask than wearing one.
Stop searching for excuses! Stop looking for the very few so-called experts who are opposed to mask-wearing. Instead go with the reputable authorities who tell us that mask-wearing curtails the spread of the virus so that we, as a country, can finally get over this pandemic. Stop the Trumpian politics! This is a health emergency.
As to the type of mask, I have heard that the valve-mask should be avoided, so I don’t use that one. But the N-95, which blocks 95% of particles is quite good. No, it’s not perfect, but certainly it is better than no mask. As to mask-mouth and having to go to the dentist, this is the first time I’ve heard about that. The solution, however, is not to stop wearing a mask altogether but not to wear it all day long. You usually don’t need to wear a mask at home; you don’t need to wear it if you’re out for a walk and you keep your distance from other people; you don’t need to wear a mask while you’re eating or sleeping. Look, nothing is perfect; everything has risks. But there is more risk, as a whole, to you and your neighbor by not wearing a mask than wearing one.
Stop searching for excuses! Stop looking for the very few so-called experts who are opposed to mask-wearing. Instead go with the reputable authorities who tell us that mask-wearing curtails the spread of the virus so that we, as a country, can finally get over this pandemic. Stop the Trumpian politics! This is a health emergency.
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Rockoh22
Guest
Now you know how Trump supporters feel. I understand your point about Biden.
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Ridgerunner
Guest
But does it really reduce the number of infected people other than temporarily? Does it do more than flatten the curve? I have seen nothing that tells me it is anything other than the latter. Sweden has not adopted mandatory universal face mask use, and its numbers are receding.
Lots of trouble. Lots of authoritarianism just to slow down a virus that will probably be with us forever and affect the same number of people no matter what.
fortune.com
Lots of trouble. Lots of authoritarianism just to slow down a virus that will probably be with us forever and affect the same number of people no matter what.
'We see no point in wearing a face mask,' Sweden's top virus expert says as he touts the country's improving COVID numbers
Since hitting a peak in late June, Sweden's COVID-19 infection rate has fallen sharply in recent weeks. And that’s amid an increase in testing over the period.
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