John 14:6

[bill210]

Hi Asa. The truth of Jesus’ words is that no-one can be saved but by His Sacrafice. All mankind are children of God and can be saved, even if they have never heard of Jesus. However, all who are saved by God [and we must not declare for ourselves who may or may not be saved] are saved through the merits of Christ.
That,s why He is truly the way and the truth and the life.
God bless.
Bill

 

[Asa]

Do you practise what you preach?

By the wonderful grace of God i sincerely try to but im not perfect so sometimes to my shame i do fail to tell people that the Lord Jesus is the only way to God. The sometimes is due to a fear of offending/upsetting people but i should never be afraid of telling people the truth.

 

[Asa]

Who are you to decide who goes to heaven and who goes to hell? Can you read the hearts and minds of others? How do you know that Jesus isn’t leading them in ways you do not understand, that are beyond your comprehension? No one can say with any certainty who is going to hell. That is for God alone to decide - not for you.

Telling people they will go to hell if they do not believe in Jesus exactly as you portray Him is what turned me off Christianity for so many years. Thank God, Jesus never gave up on me and led me to His One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church. I do however still have some small lingering resentment for the “You are going to hell.” preaching that kept me away from God and His Church. I had to be broken and in the lowest pit of despair to get past the judgementalism and see the Love of God that calls us all to Himself. All those years, I lived without Him because someone like you told me I was going to hell because I did not believe in Jesus the way that person defined Him. There are better ways of preaching that do not involve taking God’s perogative on yourself and condemning people to hell based on your own judgement. You do more harm than you know.

Luke 6.37-
“Do not judge, you will not be judged, do not condemn, and you will not be condemned.”

Rom 2 .1
“Therefore you have no excuse, whoever you are, when you judge others, for in passing judgement on another you condemn yourself.”

Are you saying that the Lord Jesus is telling a lie when He says He is the ONLY WAY to God?

If a person is trying to get to God by any other way than through the Lord Jesus they will definitely fail because the Lord Jesus clearly says He is the ONLY WAY to God. The verse of John 14:6 is in the context of the followers of the Lord Jesus going to the Fathers house, heaven. So the only way to get to heaven is through the Lord Jesus. Now the only other place that people go to if they don’t go to heaven is hell.

This is why it is very, very, very important that people are told that the Lord Jesus is the ONLY WAY to God!

This isn’t a time to play peace games with false religions. Are some people in the RCC trying to bring unity between the RCC & other faiths like Islam? People who follow the Islamic religion need to be told that the Lord Jesus is the ONLY WAY to God, that their way to God is FALSE!

Tell people the TRUTH that the Lord Jesus is the ONLY WAY to God, that’s if you truly love people and don’t want them to go to hell!

 

[dacoobob]

Do you believe that those who have never had a chance to hear the name of Jesus Christ (pre-Columbian native Americans, for example) are doomed to hell? The same goes for people living in the ages before Christ-- were they doomed too? Clearly this is nonsense, else we would have to say that God is unjust. So we see that some are saved who don’t know Jesus by name.

On the other hand, we have our Lord’s true statement that no-one is saved except through Him. So, the logical conclusion is that all who are saved are saved through Christ, but not all who are saved by Him realize that He is the one saving them (at least not in this life). I believe this is what the Church teaches as well.

EDIT: All that said, it’s still our responsibility to bring people to a fuller understanding of spiritual Truth. Those who have known Christ all along (if not by name) will tend to recognize Him in Christianity and embrace it if given the chance. Those who had not known Him at all will have a greater chance of meeting Him in the Church than in their old unChristian society.

 

[Asa]

Do you believe that those who have never had a chance to hear the name of Jesus Christ (pre-Columbian native Americans, for example) are doomed to hell? The same goes for people living in the ages before Christ-- were they doomed too? Clearly this is nonsense, else we would have to say that God is unjust. So we see that some are saved who don’t know Jesus by name.

On the other hand, we have our Lord’s true statement that no-one is saved except through Him. So, the logical conclusion is that all who are saved are saved through Christ, but not all who are saved by Him realize that He is the one saving them (at least not in this life). I believe this is what the Church teaches as well.

EDIT: All that said, it’s still our responsibility to bring people to a fuller understanding of spiritual Truth. Those who have known Christ all along (if not by name) will tend to recognize Him in Christianity and embrace it if given the chance. Those who had not known Him at all will have a greater chance of meeting Him in the Church than in their old unChristian society.

Your response is a great example of taking a plain straight forward clear statement by the Lord Jesus and turning it into a total confusion.

It’s very simple, the Lord Jesus said the following;

Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by Me. John 14:6

So the followers of the Lord Jesus just need to simply tell people that the Lord Jesus is the ONLY way to God.

Also true followers of the Lord Jesus can’t make any agreement with other faiths who believe there’s another way to God.

Are people in the RCC trying to make agreements with people in other faiths who don’t believe the Lord Jesus is the ONLY way to God??

 

[DustinsDad]

To me this is a strange question in the context of people’s eternal destiny. I mean if anyone has God’s love for people then they will tell people the truth that the Lord Jesus is the ONLY way to God. However if a person who knows this truth and doesn’t tell it to other people , then surely they don’t truly love people or care that people are going to hell forever.

ALL people need to know that the Lord Jesus is the ONLY way to God and yes some people might be offended to hear this truth but it must be told. As for whether people will believe this truth, well they will be responsible for this but it is the responsibility of those who KNOW the truth to TELL people.

Maybe some people who believe that the Lord Jesus is the only way to God are more interested in trying to make FALSE peace with people who don’t believe the Lord Jesus is the only way to God so they don’t tell them this truth. Are they more interested in making false peace than seeing people come to faith in the Lord Jesus and not going to hell!

Man I hope you are Catholic - the Holy Mother Church needs (more) people like you!

Peace in Christ,

DustinsDad

 

[spauline]

Jesus Christ is the only OBJECTIVE means of salvation.

But how does Jesus ACTUALLY save us?

By giving us GRACE.

He gives us ACTUAL grace to help us repent and seek him and to enlighten our intellects implicitly.

He gives us sanctifying grace into our souls to make us spiritually alive and able to love God and others in a way similar to the way God loves us and others.

So, again, the only true God is the Triune God of Father, Son and Holy Spirit. The Son alone became man and died for our sins, his sacrifice alone has the infinite merit necessary to atone for our infinite debt sins.

BUT… HELLO< HELLO, BUT…

Does a person need to be CHRISTIAN in order for JESUS to GIVE these GRACES and APPLY HIS MERITS to them?

The Catholic Church says, NO! Because Jesus can only expect people to do the best they can to search out the truth and live it with God’s help as best they can.

WHO, ontologically, gives them this help? JESUS, and the TRIUNE God. But does a person need to know this EXPLICITLY? Obviously not. So then when the good Muslim dies who, tried to obey “Allah” with his help, Jesus and the Father and the SPirit will inform the Muslim he was partly wrong, but won’t condemn him and, after a perhaps temp purgation, admit him to the Blessed Vision of The Triune God.

Who saved the Muslim? JESUS did. Did the Muslim know it fully? No, but it wasn’t his fault.

For more info, you might read this on my site:

On the Salvation of Non-Christians

Blessings to you, Asa.

scott

 

[spauline]

ps., this doesn’t mean we don’t evangelize, but we need to be more prudent than the fundie who goes to a mall and walks up to random people telling them if they don’t accept Jesus explicitly they will burn. That is not prudent. You may actually do more damage that way.

You need to meet people where they are at, and they need to know you care about them.

“No one CARES how much you KNOW, unless they KNOW how much you CARE.”

 

[DustinsDad]

ps., this doesn’t mean we don’t evangelize, but we need to be more prudent than the fundie who goes to a mall and walks up to random people telling them if they don’t accept Jesus explicitly they will burn. That is not prudent. You may actually do more damage that way.

Agreed. (of course).

So then when the good Muslim dies who, tried to obey “Allah” with his help, Jesus and the Father and the SPirit will inform the Muslim he was partly wrong, but won’t condemn him and, after a perhaps temp purgation, admit him to the Blessed Vision of The Triune God.

Who saved the Muslim? JESUS did. Did the Muslim know it fully? No, but it wasn’t his fault.

Be careful…you’re making it a bit too easy there. The Muslim must be:

1. 
   *]inclupably (or invincibly) ignorant of Christ and His Church - that is, he must not be guilty of rejecting Jesus. Simply being “born Muslim” ain’t gonna cut it. There’s more to it than that. This is where Jesus comes in reading the heart - he knows the actual graces that have been rejected and those that have been accepted. We certainly don’t.
   *]Be in a state of Sanctifying Grace - that means he needs both baptism (of desire or blood, which is also difficult) and to be free from all mortal sin (which requires perfect contrition outside of the Sacrament).
   While I admit with the Church that such a situation is theologically possible…I think such is the exception to the rule. We’ve got 'em flip-flopped these days. The exception has become the rule in the eyes of most folks.
   
   Peace in Christ,
   
   DustinsDad

 

[spauline]

Agreed. (of course).

Be careful…you’re making it a bit too easy there. The Muslim must be:

1. 
   *]inclupably (or invincibly) ignorant of Christ and His Church - that is, he must not be guilty of rejecting Jesus. Simply being “born Muslim” ain’t gonna cut it. There’s more to it than that. This is where Jesus comes in reading the heart - he knows the actual graces that have been rejected and those that have been accepted. We certainly don’t.
   *]Be in a state of Sanctifying Grace - that means he needs both baptism (of desire or blood, which is also difficult) and to be free from all mortal sin (which requires perfect contrition outside of the Sacrament).
   While I admit with the Church that such a situation is theologically possible…I think such is the exception to the rule. We’ve got 'em flip-flopped these days. The exception has become the rule in the eyes of most folks.
   
   Peace in Christ,
   
   DustinsDad

1. 
   well, now, wait a minute. I realize these are the exceptions. Nor am I denying the urgency of the need to evangelize. Not at all. For i am fully aware that to the degree that one lacks truth, grace, and has errors, one’s chances of being saved are diminished. (“And if any man will harm them, in this manner must he be harmed”, Rev. 11)
   
   What I am saying is, we need to build up religious dialogue so as to progress towards showing them the necessity of Christ. Coming right out in the beginning with Bible-thumping and “Jesus-only” stuff is usually ineffective, or worse, damaging. One must argue philosophically about the nature of mortal sin and how only a Divine Sacrafice of Incarnation can appease it.

 

[Clovis]

…we need to build up religious dialogue so as to progress towards showing them the necessity of Christ…

I actually am not that worried about other people. I am of the belief that in the end, ‘every knee shall bow’, and ‘everyone will see him’. I know Christ is the way, the truth, and the life, as it says in the first post, but still even Christians don’t fully know why this is, because not everything has been revealed to us, “I have much more to tell you, but you couldn’t bare it now.” I’m sure once the all encompassing tribulation of the end comes, we will all be made aware of the truth behind all the mysteries.

 

[epostle]

Asa: Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by Me. John 14:6

I wouldn’t restrict Jesus ability to allow people to come to Him only before they die. Would you?

I wouldn’t command Jesus to determine who are sheep, and who are goats. Would you?

So the followers of the Lord Jesus just need to simply tell people that the Lord Jesus is the ONLY way to God.

The Gospel of God’s love for man, the Gospel of life, and the Gospel of the dignity of the human person are a single indivisble Gospel. Condemning people to hell for not following evangelical formulas is counterproductive.

Also true followers of the Lord Jesus can’t make any agreement with other faiths who believe there’s another way to God.

True followers of the Lord Jesus try not to be offensive to other religions, and convert the culture as well as individuals. That may be why there is 1 billion+ of us. The Church seeks mutual coexistence for the service of the poor, health, and education. No “agreement” of religious truths are sought with other religions, and the Gospel is not compromised. Peaceful talks with other religions is better than being arrested, beaten, raped, or shot.

Are people in the RCC trying to make agreements with people in other faiths who don’t believe the Lord Jesus is the ONLY way to God??

Again, Jesus decides who goes to God, and it is not based on personal opinions of what the Bible means. Seeking fraternity, peace, and justice with all the nations is a biblical mandate for the Church that no other “church” has the capacity to do.

click here>>>DECLARATION ON THE RELATION OF THE CHURCH TO NON-CHRISTIAN RELIGIONS <<click here

 

[DustinsDad]

…I wouldn’t restrict Jesus ability to allow people to come to Him only before they die…

It’s a dogma of the faith brother. At the moment of death your choice is fixed for eternity. For or against God.

…Condemning people to hell for not following evangelical formulas is counterproductive.

The “evangelical formula” is responding to the Gospel gift of grace with a “yes”. That means responding positively to the Gospel message of Jesus Christ - when it is presented. It might be offensive - but it’s true. And it’s a defined dogma of the Church.

True followers of the Lord Jesus try not to be offensive to other religions, and convert the culture as well as individuals.

Of course we have to preach the truth in charity - but the truth can itself be offensive.

That may be why there is 1 billion+ of us. …

I’d say we are 1 billion+ of us “now” precisely because we feared God more than man “back then”. Nowadays, there are too many in the Church (layfolk and clergy alike) who are more interested in not offending than in saving souls.

Yes, I know the Holy Spirit does the conveting ultimately - but He uses our mouths and actions and efforts in the process.

(Continued…)

 

[DustinsDad]

Peaceful talks with other religions is better than being arrested, beaten, raped, or shot.

So much for the spirit of the martyrs, eh?

Again, Jesus decides who goes to God, and it is not based on personal opinions of what the Bible means.

Actually, it’s based on what He has revealed to us through the Church - and is evidenced in both the Written and Oral Tradition.

Of course Christ is the ultimate Judge of each and every one of us - but it’s not like He hasn’t told us the criteria!

Seeking fraternity, peace, and justice with all the nations is a biblical mandate for the Church that no other “church” has the capacity to do.

Here’s where I think Asa is right on the money - there is no peace, fraternity or justice apart from Jesus Christ. Seeking peace among the nations without conversion of said nations to Jesus Christ is an exercise in futility.

There’s been alot of nutty things, alot of “enemies within” in the last several decades. Slowly but surely, I think Pope Benedict is trying to bring us back to our senses.

But you are right - only Christ’s Church is capable of doing this. If only us knuckleheads within the Church (the human side) would get with the program!

And the sooner certain “ecumaniacs” get, eh, “reassigned” the better! See: remnantnewspaper.com/Archives/archive-2007-1225-kasper.htm

click here>>>DECLARATION ON THE RELATION OF THE CHURCH TO NON-CHRISTIAN RELIGIONS

<<click here

Well, MORTALIUM ANIMOS deals more with non-Catholic Chritians, but I think it applies here…and is a little more straightforward than Pope Paul VI. Both are free from formal error, but Pius XI’s is less afflicted the problem of ambiguities. One is less likely to get the wrong impression regarding salvation outside visible bonds of the Church - and apart from visible confession of Jesus Christ with the older stuff - and this encyclical is very clear cut and straightforward.

Pope Paul VI’s Declaration has a few dreadful parts than can easily be taken in a heterodox manner. As such, I’d be very careful with it. For every one non-Christian you might convert by being warm and fuzzy, you lose 200 non-Catholic Christians who would have converted but chose not to because it* looks* on the surface like we’ve changed Church dogma regarding the necessity of Christ for salvation.

Something to think about.

DustinsDad

 

[po18guy]

So it’s clear that the Lord Jesus’ statement in John 14:6 is 100% true. Therefore it’s also 100% true that anyone who is trying to get to God by any other means/way other than by the Lord Jesus is going to hell.

Not so fast! Not even the cruel, domineering, Patriarchal Catholic Church has ever stated that anyone is in hell. We leave that up to God, as His graces continually amaze.

So should ALL people who believe that the Lord Jesus is the only way to God be seeking to tell ALL other people the truth? I mean if a true follower of the Lord Jesus meets people of the Islamic faith should they be telling them that the Lord Jesus is the ONLY way to God, surely this is speaking the truth in love.

Yes, this is true, but must be done with love and charity. It may not even take words to accomplish - since actions speak louder.

 

[dacoobob]

Not so fast! Not even the cruel, domineering, Patriarchal Catholic Church has ever stated that anyone is in hell. We leave that up to God, as His graces continually amaze.

You mistake DustinsDad-- according to his profile he’s a Catholic (although apparently sort of “fundamentalist Catholic”).

 

[DustinsDad]

You mistake DustinsDad-- according to his profile he’s a Catholic (although apparently sort of “fundamentalist Catholic”).

He wasn’t responding to me, he was responding to Asa.

And I’m just a catholic, struggling to remain faithful to the teachings of the Church because of the promises of Christ. That means accepting and believing what she has proclaimed and defined as truth for 2000 years.

We can disagree on various “approaches” to evangilization, how effective they are in winning souls for the Lord, etc. But we cannot disagree with Holy Mother Church on the defined dogmas, which have been given to us under the protection of the Holy Spirit as promised by Our Lord Jesus Christ.

This of course would mean that hell is real, people do go there and suffer for eternity, and merely being a “nice guy” doesn’t get you into heaven. It takes a bit more than that.

Peace in Christ,

DustinsDad

 

[DustinsDad]

Not so fast! Not even the cruel, domineering, Patriarchal Catholic Church has ever stated that anyone is in hell. We leave that up to God, as His graces continually amaze.

The Church hasn’t proclaimed any individual specifically is in Hell precisely because no one knows what grace the Good Lord can give at the last instant of one’s life…but She has condemned the concept of “Universal Salvation”, the concept that hell is “empty” (or eventually will be emptied) and all souls will eventually be saved.

Yes, this is true, but must be done with love and charity. It may not even take words to accomplish - since actions speak louder.

Always with charity - yes. And sometimes actions speak louder, but sometimes words are necessary.

Peace in Christ,

DustinsDad

 

[spauline]

I actually am not that worried about other people. I am of the belief that in the end, ‘every knee shall bow’, and ‘everyone will see him’. I know Christ is the way, the truth, and the life, as it says in the first post, but still even Christians don’t fully know why this is, because not everything has been revealed to us, “I have much more to tell you, but you couldn’t bare it now.” I’m sure once the all encompassing tribulation of the end comes, we will all be made aware of the truth behind all the mysteries.

well, now, you SHOULD be worried about other people, especially total apostates. Most persons in the European civs and their derivatives are on a one way road to hell. They fornicate, contracept, abort, and divorce and remarry and think these things are OK. They have no regard for God at all. Such dispostions lead straight to hell. Therefore, you should damn well be worried about alot of people.

Similary, whereas salvation is POSSIBLE for a Muslim, it is difficult, seeing as they lack so much truth and grace.

But, admittedly, we need to meet people where they are at. It means concern, and worry, but not terror, like the fundie.

 

[Clovis]

. . . They have no regard for God at all. Such dispostions lead straight to hell. Therefore, you should damn well be worried about alot of people. . .

Point taken.

But one thing you are overlooking, and something many later prophets in the old testament overlooked, was that wickness can be overcome. If God, all of a sudden makes people aware of Him, and the truth of holy scripture, would not much of this ‘hell’ be the shame of the wicked realizing there iniquity? If a person can feel sorry for their behaviors, there is still hope yet. You underestimates God’s grace.