M
myfavoritmartin
Guest
Christ death on the cross did it all.
Rom 8:1
Therefore there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus.
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Rom 8:1
Therefore there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus.
M
Mijoy2
Guest
I think I am misunderstanding you view on -moments after death-.Christ death on the cross did it all.
Rom 8:1
Therefore there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus.
A hyperthetical profoundly sinful person, moments prior to death, professes that he “accepts Jesus Christ as his personal Lord and Savior” in the manner of which Protestants deem acceptable (sounds like a 'work" but that is another issue).
This person dies and finds himself before the Lord, still (it would seem without purgation of some sort) steeped in his sinful ways.
My question would be, how can this person enter heaven which is all good?
Curious, thank you.
M
myfavoritmartin
Guest
Aside from your “protestant lite” description of being saved, the sin committed right up until death…was hung on the cross!I think I am misunderstanding you view on -moments after death-.
A hyperthetical profoundly sinful person, moments prior to death, professes that he “accepts Jesus Christ as his personal Lord and Savior” in the manner of which Protestants deem acceptable (sounds like a 'work" but that is another issue).
This person dies and finds himself before the Lord, still (it would seem without purgation of some sort) steeped in his sinful ways.
My question would be, how can this person enter heaven which is all good?
Curious, thank you.
God see’s the righteousness of Christ in the judgement of the believer.
Can’t get any more perfect than being being viewed as such.
C
cfrancis
Guest
This raises the question as to what you believe is the result of sin to the believer?Aside from your “protestant lite” description of being saved, the sin committed right up until death…was hung on the cross!
God see’s the righteousness of Christ in the judgement of the believer.
Can’t get any more perfect than being being viewed as such.
What happens to the Christian - spiritually, physically, etc… - when the Christian sins?
L
Lampo
Guest
That’s very Catholic of you.Christ death on the cross did it all.
If you ask those that are *not *in Christ Jesus, will they tell you so? Don’t all Protestants think they are in Christ Jesus?Rom 8:1
Therefore there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus.
M
Mijoy2
Guest
Thank you but this doesn’t answer my question. My question was what becomes of the individual propensity to sin?Aside from your “protestant lite” description of being saved, the sin committed right up until death…was hung on the cross!
God see’s the righteousness of Christ in the judgement of the believer.
Can’t get any more perfect than being being viewed as such.
To save time (not to presuppose your answer), if you suggest it is instantly gone, would this not be a purgation of sorts?
Thank you.
M
Murphs10
Guest
Amen! But, to understand what it means to be IN Christ Jesus you will need the rest of the Bible - ALL of it.Christ death on the cross did it all.
Rom 8:1
Therefore there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus.
M
myfavoritmartin
Guest
Our sins were purged on the cross the moment Christ blood was spilled unto death.Thank you but this doesn’t answer my question. My question was what becomes of the individual propensity to sin?
To save time (not to presuppose your answer), if you suggest it is instantly gone, would this not be a purgation of sorts?
Thank you.
M
myfavoritmartin
Guest
You think?Amen! But, to understand what it means to be IN Christ Jesus you will need the rest of the Bible - ALL of it.
I haven’t read it all and i understand what it means to be in Christ.
M
myfavoritmartin
Guest
Most “protestants” sadly think they are saved because they got baptized as an infant.If you ask those that are *not *in Christ Jesus, will they tell you so? Don’t all Protestants think they are in Christ Jesus?
So yes most may think it, but when we align our beliefs up to what is taught in God’s Holy scripture we find out differently because His Word is sharper than any double edged sword and is alive.
L
Lampo
Guest
What Protestant doesn’t believe he/she is in Christ?I haven’t read it all and i understand what it means to be in Christ.
L
Lampo
Guest
Simply put, purgatory can be defined as the process of the application of the saving merits of Jesus’ death and resurrection to the soul of a deceased Christian who has died with non-deadly (cf. 1 John 5:16-17) post-baptismal sins on his soul. After this process of spiritual cleansing/purging the Christian’s soul is, thus, prepared for total union with our all-holy God in heaven.
M
myfavoritmartin
Guest
The result is the diminishing or loss of fellowship with God.This raises the question as to what you believe is the result of sin to the believer?
What happens to the Christian - spiritually, physically, etc… - when the Christian sins?
We are called to stand fast in the Lord.
M
myfavoritmartin
Guest
?What Protestant doesn’t believe he/she is in Christ?
L
Lampo
Guest
My point is that those who believe as you do cannot know for certain they are in Christ (saved). I’m sure the ones who are not in Christ would still believe that they are if we were to ask them. Seems like this is off topic. Better end it here or move it to a different thread. My bad for diverting the discussion.
M
myfavoritmartin
Guest
Friend it goes on in the next verse to say 1 John 5: 18.Simply put, purgatory can be defined as the process of the application of the saving merits of Jesus’ death and resurrection to the soul of a deceased Christian who has died with non-deadly (cf. 1 John 5:16-17) post-baptismal sins on his soul. After this process of spiritual cleansing/purging the Christian’s soul is, thus, prepared for total union with our all-holy God in heaven.
*
We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not; but he that is begotten of God keepeth himself, and that wicked one toucheth him not.*
The adversary (satan) with all his temptations does not make a child of God sin ‘a sin unto death.’ Thus he touches him not.
So i don’t follow your point in quoting this.
L
Lampo
Guest
By cross referencing 1 John 5:16-17, I was pointing out that there are mortal sins and there are venial sins as taught by the Church consistently for nearly 2,000 years.Friend it goes on in the next verse to say 1 John 5: 18.
*
We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not; but he that is begotten of God keepeth himself, and that wicked one toucheth him not.*
The adversary (satan) with all his temptations does not make a child of God sin ‘a sin unto death.’ Thus he touches him not.
So i don’t follow your point in quoting this.
1 John 5:18 – John writes that anyone born of God does not sin (this, of course, doesn’t say or prove anything about salvation). This is an example of proverbial literature which John uses frequently. For example, see 1 John 1:8 – if we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us. Proverbial literature tries to make a point by using an absolute, even though the absolute is necessarily qualified (here, as seen by 1 John 1:8 which seemingly contradicts 1 John 5:18).
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Mijoy2
Guest
Are you deliberately avoiding my direct question?Our sins were purged on the cross the moment Christ blood was spilled unto death.
I asked about the propesity to sin AFTER the particualr judgement. Not the washing away of the sins. What happens to our sinful nature after death? Can I be more explicit?
L
Lampo
Guest
Your favorite Martin knew the importance of infant baptism did he not?Most “protestants” sadly think they are saved because they got baptized as an infant.
M
myfavoritmartin
Guest
and my point is that verse 18 clearly says that a child of God is protected against mortal sin from satan.By cross referencing 1 John 5:16-17, I was pointing out that there are mortal sins and there are venial sins as taught by the Church consistently for nearly 2,000 years.
Rom 4:5
But to him that worketh not,** but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly**, his faith is counted for righteousness.
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