John MacArthur alludes to Purgatory?

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brb3 said:
Yes. He doesn’t term it as “I no longer believe in OSAS” … nevertheless, he now is teaching/preaching this very idea.
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Do you know which of his recent sermons cover this?
 
C’mon bro you aren’t buying this, are you?
Mac preaching against OSAS would be as likely as him preaching for the RCC.
 
myfavoritmartin said:
Back to being closer to the topic…Why would we need purification if…
As scripture says…

Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: **old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new. **
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I am pretty sure you heard this before, just curious on how you answer it.
  1. Are you perfect now?
  2. Will you be perfect in Heaven? (assuming you make it)
  3. If you died right now and went to heaven, what made you perfect to enter heaven?
In Matthew’s Gospel we read, “Anyone who speaks a word against the Son of Man, it will be forgiven him; but whoever speaks against the Holy Spirit, it will not be forgiven him, either in this age or in the age to come.” This means that sins can be forgiven in the age to come - after death. If we are in Hell, then we will not want our sins forgiven. If we are in Heaven, then we will have no sins. So, there must be another place where sins can be forgiven. Paul, in his First Letter to the Corinthians, says, “If anyone’s work is burned, he will suffer loss; but he himself will be saved, yet so as through fire.” (1 Corinthians 3:15) Paul is saying that at the Day of Judgment each man’s work will be tested. This trial happens after death. What happens if a person’s work fails the test? He himself will be saved, yet so as through fire - Purgatory.
 
Fundamentalists look at the flesh as evil, and that their “regenerated spirit” is trapped in the corrupt flesh. Their faith is really anti-Incarnational, flesh and spirit are an opposed duality. Pure Gnosticism.
John wrote his epistles because of the heresies that the Gnostic Docetists were spreading were corrupting the faith of this community. The Docetists believed that matter was evil, and that Christianity brought about a regenerated spirit that was trapped inside evil matter. Since the evil flesh could not corrupt the “regenerated spirit” of the Christian, there was no need to worry about sins of the flesh.
 
Lampo said:
I am pretty sure you heard this before, just curious on how you answer it.
  1. Are you perfect now?
  2. Will you be perfect in Heaven? (assuming you make it)
  3. If you died right now and went to heaven, what made you perfect to enter heaven?
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1.no
2.yes
3.Christs death on the cross
 
Lampo said:
Paul, in his First Letter to the Corinthians, says, “If anyone’s work is burned, he will suffer loss; but he himself will be saved, yet so as through fire.” (1 Corinthians 3:15) Paul is saying that at the Day of Judgment each man’s work will be tested. This trial happens after death. What happens if a person’s work fails the test? He himself will be saved, yet so as through fire - Purgatory.
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No not purgatory, Paul is saying there will be a loss this loss is lack of, or diminished rewards or blessings the Lord had fully equipped each saint specifically to achieve.
It is being less fruitful than God had prepared a man or woman to be.
 
JustaServant said:
Fundamentalists look at the flesh as evil, and that their “regenerated spirit” is trapped in the corrupt flesh. Their faith is really anti-Incarnational, flesh and spirit are an opposed duality. Pure Gnosticism.
John wrote his epistles because of the heresies that the Gnostic Docetists were spreading were corrupting the faith of this community. The Docetists believed that matter was evil, and that Christianity brought about a regenerated spirit that was trapped inside evil matter. Since the evil flesh could not corrupt the “regenerated spirit” of the Christian, there was no need to worry about sins of the flesh.
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Good point ! Explains why ‘some’ protestants don’t worry about their post-baptismal sins. They don’t think they can control it … they don’t lose sleep over the matter.

In fairness to John Mac … he doesn’t buy into this nonsense.
 
MarcoPolo said:
We know John MacArthur thinks the Catholic Church is satanic. But does this not sound like an elusion to Purgatory?

*If I see myself for who I really am, and I really want to be something completely other than what I am, then death would be actually fairly attractive to me. I will never be the man I should be in this world. I won’t be the man I should be till I’m dead. Right? None of us will. *(MP3 from 3/20/08) I wonder if he has any idea how close he is to understanding purgatory.
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I am pretty sure he is far far away from the Catholic understanding of purgatory… Even without knowing most of his sermons etc. but with a sufficient knowledge of a few and after being informed about his stand towards the CC I am rather certain that he is not talking about anything like purgatory.
As far as I know he does however understand that all of our sins are being forgiven through Jesus Christ and that we won’t be plagued by that when we are in heaven.
 
brb3 said:
Good point ! Explains why ‘some’ protestants don’t worry about their post-baptismal sins. They don’t think they can control it … they don’t lose sleep over the matter.
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What??? I’d question anyone’s spiritual standing if they felt they could just carry-on in sin. Sin is offensive to our holy and pure God, it ought to offend us as well.
 
myfavoritmartin said:
What??? I’d question anyone’s spiritual standing if they felt they could just carry-on in sin. Sin is offensive to our holy and pure God, it ought to offend us as well.
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Indeed, but some who hold to OSAS, believe it so absolutely … they can talk themselves into believing otherwise than you. They see Christ having absorbed ALL their post-baptismal sins … allowing them to be viewed as Holy by the Father.
 
brb3 said:
Indeed, but some who hold to OSAS, believe it so absolutely … they can talk themselves into believing otherwise than you. They see Christ having absorbed ALL their post-baptismal sins … allowing them to be viewed as Holy by the Father.
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I think this is something made up by the anti-osas camp, i know of no-one who lives out there life as a true Christian and carries about consistently sinning.
 
Janet1983 said:
I am pretty sure he is far far away from the Catholic understanding of purgatory… Even without knowing most of his sermons etc. but with a sufficient knowledge of a few and after being informed about his stand towards the CC I am rather certain that he is not talking about anything like purgatory.
As far as I know he does however understand that all of our sins are being forgiven through Jesus Christ and that we won’t be plagued by that when we are in heaven.
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Would you say we are plagued by sin now?
 
MarcoPolo said:
Would you say we are plagued by sin now?
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In a way, yes. If you are not personally plagued by the fact that you do sin, there is something wrong. If it would not bother you that you sin against God (at least afterwards) you wouldn’t bother to go to confession, would you?
God has given us something we commonly call conscience and because of that we are certainly plagued by sin.
Someone who does not serve the Lord will not be bothered by the fact that he offends Him if he does. He simply would not care.
We do however care and that is why we are trying to avoid sin wherever possible and that is why we try to go and sin no more.

May God be gracious to us and bless us and make His face to shine upon us, that His way may be known upon earth, His saving power among all nations.
Your sister in Christ,
Janet
 
Janet1983 said:
In a way, yes. If you are not personally plagued by the fact that you do sin, there is something wrong. If it would not bother you that you sin against God (at least afterwards) you wouldn’t bother to go to confession, would you?
God has given us something we commonly call conscience and because of that we are certainly plagued by sin.
Someone who does not serve the Lord will not be bothered by the fact that he offends Him if he does. He simply would not care.
We do however care and that is why we are trying to avoid sin wherever possible and that is why we try to go and sin no more.

May God be gracious to us and bless us and make His face to shine upon us, that His way may be known upon earth, His saving power among all nations.
Your sister in Christ,
Janet
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I agree. So if we also agree that we will not have this proneness to sin in heaven, then we both believe in a transformation between this life and heaven. :o
 
myfavoritmartin said:
I think this is something made up by the anti-osas camp, i know of no-one who lives out there life as a true Christian and carries about consistently sinning.
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Sounds like you hang out with a bunch of Saintly protestants.

When was the last time you sinned? Maybe it was a jealous thought, a selfish thought, or a very uncharitable post for example.

Regardless, everytime you do it, you ‘choose’ to separate yourself from God. Doesn’t sound like a saved person to me who needs no repentance.
 
Des said:
Sounds like you hang out with a bunch of Saintly protestants.

When was the last time you sinned? Maybe it was a jealous thought, a selfish thought, or a very uncharitable post for example.

Regardless, everytime you do it, you ‘choose’ to separate yourself from God. Doesn’t sound like a saved person to me who needs no repentance.
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Who said anything about living without repentence? We’re all sinners.
If though you’re born-again and have a regenerated spirit, you ought to be becoming more and more sanctified in this life.
 
5This is the message we have heard from him and declare to you: God is light; in him there is no darkness at all. 6If we claim to have fellowship with him yet walk in the darkness, we lie and do not live by the truth. 7But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus, his Son, purifies us from** all sin**.

8If we claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us. 9If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness. 10If we claim we have not sinned, we make him out to be a liar and his word has no place in our lives.
 
Mt 12:32, “And whoever says a word against the Son of man will be forgiven; but whoever speaks against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven, either in this age or in the age to come.” Implies forgiveness in the age to come. Where can you go to be forgiven in the age to come? Heaven? You don’t need forgiveness. Hell? There is no forgiveness.
 
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