Jorge Garcia, husband and father of two, deported Jan 15 2018 (MLK Day)

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You can call it by a different name, but it definitely a huge hardship on the family. There should be some balance between that hardship and the severity of the infraction. You are referring to a court decision, which is fine if I was arguing a point of law. But I am not. I am arguing for compassion in this case.
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As you should.
As the US bishops tell us to, regarding immigration.
As the Church has always told us to.
As Jesus would.
 
Loud-living-dogma said:
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catholic1seeks:
… The Catholic Church teaches that every person has basic human rights and is entitled to have basic human needs met—food, shelter, clothing, education, and health care. .
- The bishops, USCCB
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Someone will l have to explain this to me. WHO is going to give “every person” basic human needs - - food shelter, clothing, education and health care?
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In the case we are discussing, no one has to “give” Jorge and his family these things. He was providing for his family just fine on his own. It costs nobody anything to let him stay with his family.
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LeafByNiggle said:
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Loud-living-dogma:
Immigration law in the United States is civil, not criminal. People
found to be in violation of immigration law are not punished; they are
deported. And, deportation is not punishment.
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You can call it by a different name, but it definitely a huge hardship on the family. There should be some balance between that hardship and the severity of the infraction. You are referring to a court decision, which is fine if I was arguing a point of law. But I am not. I am arguing for compassion in this case.
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Well, you would be arguing for compassion in a lot of cases, wouldn’t you? In what cases would you argue for following the law?
 
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Being undocumented or legal does not define one as a human. If you are human, you ought to be treated like one. Jesus had some important things to say about that.
 
LeafByNiggle said:
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Loud-living-dogma:
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catholic1seeks:
… The Catholic Church teaches that every person has basic human rights and is entitled to have basic human needs met—food, shelter, clothing, education, and health care. .
- The bishops, USCCB
Click to expand...
Someone will l have to explain this to me. WHO is going to give “every person” basic human needs - - food shelter, clothing, education and health care?
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
In the case we are discussing, no one has to “give” Jorge and his family these things. He was providing for his family just fine on his own. It costs nobody anything to let him stay with his family.
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Okay, I am not referring to Jorge in this case. Since you brought up this quote from the bishops, WHO do the bishops think is gong to provide all this wonderful stuff?
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In context, the point of the bishops is that no one – not the state, not an individual – should deny illegal immigrants there status as human beings.
 
Respectfully: At this point I won’t quote you, I ask you to please stop quoting me as well. I have nothing else I could say. You continued to read half of what I said and taking those things out of context or quite simply reinterpreting them to suit other purposes, even after I asked you to reconsider that attitude.
 
Loud-living-dogma said:
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LeafByNiggle:
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Loud-living-dogma:
Immigration law in the United States is civil, not criminal. People
found to be in violation of immigration law are not punished; they are
deported. And, deportation is not punishment.
Click to expand...
You can call it by a different name, but it definitely a huge hardship on the family. There should be some balance between that hardship and the severity of the infraction. You are referring to a court decision, which is fine if I was arguing a point of law. But I am not. I am arguing for compassion in this case.
Click to expand...
Well, you would be arguing for compassion in a lot of cases, wouldn’t you? In what cases would you argue for following the law?
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Certainly in cases where serious crimes have been committed, and in most cases where the person has not been in the US very long and/or has not established a long-term commitment here - and perhaps others. I am only arguing for the dreamers here - not for every undocumented immigrant.
 
catholic1seeks said:
Being undocumented or legal does not define one as a human. If you are human, you ought to be treated like one. Jesus had some important things to say about that.
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Is being re-patriated to one’s home country being treated as “not a human”? I don’t understand.
 
Yes, when you’re separated from your family and the country you grew up in.
 
Jesus also told us to obey our mortal rulers… ‘render to caesar…’
 
That would be immoral.

The Church explicitly says that states have the right to control their borders/population

Political authorities, for the sake of the common good for which they are responsible, may make the exercise of the right to immigrate subject to various juridical conditions, especially with regard to the immigrants’ duties toward their country of adoption. Immigrants are obliged to respect with gratitude the material and spiritual heritage of the country that receives them, to obey its laws, and to assist in carrying civic burdens (CCC 2241).
 
Right. It’s the second principle given by the USCCB in the document I linked to.

But the third principle:
Third Principle: A country must regulate its borders with justice and mercy.

The second principle of Catholic social teaching may seem to negate the first principle. However, principles one and two must be understood in the context of principle three. And all Catholic social teaching must be understood in light of the absolute equality of all people and the commitment to the common good.

A country’s regulation of borders and control of immigration must be governed by concern for all people and by mercy and justice. A nation may not simply decide that it wants to provide for its own people and no others. A sincere commitment to the needs of all must prevail.

In our modern world where communication and travel are much easier, the burden of emergencies cannot be placed solely on nations immediately adjacent to the crises. Justice dictates that the world community contribute resources toward shelter, food, medical services, and basic welfare.

Even in the case of less urgent migrations, a developed nation’s right to limit immigration must be based on justice, mercy, and the common good, not on self-interest. Moreover, immigration policy ought to take into account other important values such as the right of families to live together. A merciful immigration policy will not force married couples or children to live separated from their families for long periods.

Undocumented immigrants present a special concern. Often their presence is considered criminal since they arrive without legal permission. Under the harshest view, undocumented people may be regarded as undeserving of rights or services. This is not the view of Catholic social teaching. The Catholic Church teaches that every person has basic human rights and is entitled to have basic human needs met—food, shelter, clothing, education, and health care. Undocumented persons are particularly vulnerable to exploitation by employers, and they are not able to complain because of the fear of discovery and deportation. Current immigration policy that criminalizes the mere attempt to immigrate and imprisons immigrants who have committed no crime or who have already served a just sentence for a crime is immoral. In the Bible, God promises that our judgment will be based on our treatment of the most vulnerable. Before God we cannot excuse inhumane treatment of certain persons by claiming that their lack of legal status deprives them of rights given by the Creator.

Finally, immigration policy that allows people to live here and contribute to society for years but refuses to offer them the opportunity to achieve legal status does not serve the common good. The presence of millions of people living without easy access to basic human rights and necessities is a great injustice.
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And the US allows for that justice and mercy. Go to the consulate, register, and wait like everyone else, from Albania to Zimbabwe
 
There really is no argument.

I’m no politician or lawyer and am not that interested in partisan politics.

But the teaching of the bishops seems clear to me. It even bluntly states that A merciful immigration policy will not force married couples or children to live separated from their families for long periods.

And yet plenty of people on this thread seem to be trying to justify separation of family as if it’s no big deal, it’s just “the law.”
 
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