Jorge Garcia, husband and father of two, deported Jan 15 2018 (MLK Day)

[catholic1seeks]

Do you realize his family are American citizens? Why should they have to leave the only country and family they’ve ever known?

 

[LeafByNiggle]

What?! The Mexican economy is a lost cause but legalizing immigration in the USA is so doable it’s obvious?!!!

Yes.

I’m very interested to know what other Americans think of this.

Here is how they think. They favor citizenship for the dreamers by 8:1 margin. This one says it is 9 out of 10. This one says it is 86%.

I don’t think people are really arguing about the “dreamers”

Jorge Garcia is clearly one of them by definition.

Do you guys realize, sincerely, what “$125,000” means for the average Mexican (or non-American, for all that matter)?

What is your point?

This person, the American left is telling us (in a judgmental way of course), to feel sorry for, because “everybody knows” this is “unfair” (I’m yet to see any sort of legal evidence to back up that claim)

“Unfair” is not a legal term. It is an ethical term. You don’t look to law to back up an ethical claim. Besides, Congress is on the verge of changing the law to make it legal for Jorge to stay.

, has spent this sum of money just to avoid… México PERIOD

No, it is not to avoid Mexico. It is to hang on to the only life he and his family have every known.

Oh, I’m sorry. It’s… the way of life… I forgot. Let me tell that to the judges and everyone drafting and upholding the Law, the policemen and the people who are starving or the millions of Christians that have been persecuted in recent times.

Deflection. Allowing Jorge and his family to stay in the US does nothing to interfere with efforts to alleviate starvation somewhere else.

 

[pnewton]

Do you realize his family are American citizens? Why should they have to leave the only country and family they’ve ever known?

Also, it is contrary to the Golden Rule to suggest that immigration to Mexico for his family is okay, but immigration to the US for him is not.

 

[Loud-living-dogma]

Do you realize his family are American citizens? Why should they have to leave the only country and family they’ve ever known?

They don’t HAVE to, they can CHOOSE to, to be with their beloved father who has been re-patriated to his home country!

 

[JanSobieskiIII]

He has no record of crime.

Other than remaining in the country illegally.

That makes him a criminal.

 

[catholic1seeks]

Even in the case of less urgent migrations, a developed nation’s right to limit immigration must be based on justice, mercy, and the common good, not on self-interest. Moreover, immigration policy ought to take into account other important values such as the right of families to live together. A merciful immigration policy will not force married couples or children to live separated from their families for long periods.

— The American Bishops

I’ll stick with the bishops.

 

[Loud-living-dogma]

catholic1seeks:

Do you realize his family are American citizens? Why should they have to leave the only country and family they’ve ever known?

Also, it is contrary to the Golden Rule to suggest that immigration to Mexico for his family is okay, but immigration to the US for him is not.

They may CHOOSE to immigrate to Mexico, if they are able to legally. He may CHOOSE to legally immigrate to the US if he is able to!

 

[LeafByNiggle]

No one is separating him from his family!
His family can go and live with their father if they choose to!

Both choices are huge disruptions - to uproot the whole family to live in a country they have never lived in and sever their established ties with the only community they have every known - or to split up the family and allow the rest of the family to continue without their father.

 

[catholic1seeks]

I refer you to what the bishops have to say.

 

[JanSobieskiIII]

I guess we gotta let the abortion law stand since, well, law is law.

We can’t unlawfully prevent people from having abortions. We can petition to have the law changed.

If people want to allow illegal immigrants to stay, they need to petition the government to have the law changed.

There is no inconsistency.

 

[LeafByNiggle]

catholic1seeks:

He has no record of crime.

Other than remaining in the country illegally.

That makes him a criminal.

The severity of the penalty should fit severity of the crime. How much harm has he done while living here? Deportation is a huge penalty, given that the family has only known life in the US.

 

[Loud-living-dogma]

Immigration law in the United States is civil, not criminal. People
found to be in violation of immigration law are not punished; they are
deported. And, deportation is not punishment.

In the United States, we often refer to people who are in the United
States without permission from the government as “illegal aliens.”
Calling people “illegals” gives the false impression that they have
committed a crime. However, being in the United States without
documentation is not a crime. It is a violation of immigration laws, and
there is no punishment for illegal presence.

The reason deportation is not punishment is that an 1893 Court decision, Fong Yue Ting vs. United States, still holds. That court decision reads as follows:

[Deportation] is simply the ascertainment, by appropriate and lawful
means, of the fact whether the conditions exist upon which Congress has
enacted that an alien of this class may remain within the country. The order of deportation is not a punishment for crime.
It is not a banishment, in the sense in which that word is often
applied to the expulsion of a citizen from his country by way of
punishment. It is but a method of enforcing the return to his own
country of an alien who has not complied with the conditions … which the
Government of the nation … has determined that his continuing to reside
here shall depend. He has not, therefore, been deprived of life,
liberty, or property without due process of law, and the provisions of
the Constitution securing the right of trial by jury and prohibiting
unreasonable searches and seizures and cruel and unusual punishments
have no application.

According to this decision, which still holds in court today,
deportation is an administrative procedure which ensures that people
abide by the terms of their visas. When they do not, they face the
possibility of being returned to their countries of origin.

 

[catholic1seeks]

Undocumented immigrants present a special concern. Often their presence is considered criminal since they arrive without legal permission. Under the harshest view, undocumented people may be regarded as undeserving of rights or services. This is not the view of Catholic social teaching. The Catholic Church teaches that every person has basic human rights and is entitled to have basic human needs met—food, shelter, clothing, education, and health care. Undocumented persons are particularly vulnerable to exploitation by employers, and they are not able to complain because of the fear of discovery and deportation. Current immigration policy that criminalizes the mere attempt to immigrate and imprisons immigrants who have committed no crime or who have already served a just sentence for a crime is immoral. In the Bible, God promises that our judgment will be based on our treatment of the most vulnerable. Before God we cannot excuse inhumane treatment of certain persons by claiming that their lack of legal status deprives them of rights given by the Creator.

- The bishops, USCCB

 

[LeafByNiggle]

If people want to allow illegal immigrants to stay, they need to petition the government to have the law changed.

Public opinion being what it is, they are doing exactly that, and the government is on the verge of doing exactly that.

 

[catholic1seeks]

They may CHOOSE to immigrate to Mexico, if they are able to legally. He may CHOOSE to legally immigrate to the US if he is able to!

Place yourself in the shoes of that family and the many others who are separated because of such situations.

The bishops of America say:

Even in the case of less urgent migrations, a developed nation’s right to limit immigration must be based on justice, mercy, and the common good, not on self-interest. Moreover, immigration policy ought to take into account other important values such as the right of families to live together. A merciful immigration policy will not force married couples or children to live separated from their families for long periods.

 

[Loud-living-dogma]

Undocumented immigrants present a special concern. Often their presence is considered criminal since they arrive without legal permission. Under the harshest view, undocumented people may be regarded as undeserving of rights or services. This is not the view of Catholic social teaching. The Catholic Church teaches that every person has basic human rights and is entitled to have basic human needs met—food, shelter, clothing, education, and health care. Undocumented persons are particularly vulnerable to exploitation by employers, and they are not able to complain because of the fear of discovery and deportation. Current immigration policy that criminalizes the mere attempt to immigrate and imprisons immigrants who have committed no crime or who have already served a just sentence for a crime is immoral. In the Bible, God promises that our judgment will be based on our treatment of the most vulnerable. Before God we cannot excuse inhumane treatment of certain persons by claiming that their lack of legal status deprives them of rights given by the Creator.

Someone will l have to explain this to me. WHO is going to give “every person” basic human needs - - food shelter, clothing, education and health care?

 

[catholic1seeks]

The point is none of this should be denied simply because one is an undocumented immigrant.

 

[LeafByNiggle]

Immigration law in the United States is civil, not criminal. People
found to be in violation of immigration law are not punished; they are
deported. And, deportation is not punishment.

You can call it by a different name, but it definitely a huge hardship on the family. There should be some balance between that hardship and the severity of the infraction. You are referring to a court decision, which is fine if I was arguing a point of law. But I am not. I am arguing for compassion in this case.

 

[catholic1seeks]

Critics say this was unjust.

Of course it’s unjust. This not politics at all. This is Catholic teaching.

But it should be obvious to any human, not just Catholic.

 

[Loud-living-dogma]

The point is none of this should be denied simply because one is an undocumented immigrant.

So, do you think every country in the world should give everyone these things to all immigrants, legal or not? Or just the USA?